Rigor - Is it that important?

[Anonymous]

What if your kid is not gunning for Ivies or top 15? Suppose they're targeting selective but not lottery ticket necessary schools like Lehigh, Wake Forest, and Villanova. How does rigor factor into admission?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our private school I have seen kid without taking the highest math rigor get into Princeton this year but the kid was deep into languages and classics.

But what do you mean when you say "without taking the highest math rigor "? If all you mean is that the student did not reach the highest available classes, then you are misinterpreting what colleges expect. For the most part, a humanities major would be considered "highest rigor" with Calculus AB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if your kid is not gunning for Ivies or top 15? Suppose they're targeting selective but not lottery ticket necessary schools like Lehigh, Wake Forest, and Villanova. How does rigor factor into admission?

Yes! It most definitely does matter at these schools too. The expectations aren't the same obviously but they definitely expect to see a bunch of APs. I just did a tour at Villanova and they specifically discussed this question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Top rigor" doesn't mean the hardest class every single time you have a choice. It just means above a certain threshold.

No, it means your student is taking the most rigorous courses offered by the high school in five core subjects (UVA) and the college counselor will attest to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At our private school I have seen kid without taking the highest math rigor get into Princeton this year but the kid was deep into languages and classics.

But what do you mean when you say "without taking the highest math rigor "? If all you mean is that the student did not reach the highest available classes, then you are misinterpreting what colleges expect. For the most part, a humanities major would be considered "highest rigor" with Calculus AB.

An "on level" student at my son's school would not take calculus at all, but just precalculus. AP precalc would be the most rigorous math class available to this person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Top rigor" doesn't mean the hardest class every single time you have a choice. It just means above a certain threshold.

No, it means your student is taking the most rigorous courses offered by the high school in five core subjects (UVA) and the college counselor will attest to that.

It doesn’t mean ANYTHING consistently. Every counselor interprets it differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3.98/4.5, 1560 got WL at UVA a couple years ago.
4y FL, World, APUSH, APGov, Phy C-Mech, E&M, Calc BC, Calc 3/Linear BUT no lang nor lit. Yep, rigor in ALL areas.

I am surprised kid din't get into UVA but this is specifically NOT "rigor in all areas." You said no AP Lang or Lit. UVA admissions people state over and over that they want to see APs in all major subject areas. And while of course we all know that they take students without it, in this case it sounds like your kids did not have it.

In any case, being compared to peers is also enormous. And school you are applying to is also a factor. If your child was at TJ and applying to engineering it is easier to understand a waitlist than if your child is from Roanoke applying to Arts and Sciences.

PP. I agree. I must not have been clear.

Dont know how true highest rigor theory is but I know several kids from our MCPS high school who were accepted to UVA without the highest rigor. Some of them only took as some DCUM posters call fluff AP CLASSES like Econ, Psychology, Human Geo, etc.. no AP science classes and no AP history classes. Applied and accepted to UVA business school. Good SAT and ECs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3.98/4.5, 1560 got WL at UVA a couple years ago.
4y FL, World, APUSH, APGov, Phy C-Mech, E&M, Calc BC, Calc 3/Linear BUT no lang nor lit. Yep, rigor in ALL areas.

I am surprised kid din't get into UVA but this is specifically NOT "rigor in all areas." You said no AP Lang or Lit. UVA admissions people state over and over that they want to see APs in all major subject areas. And while of course we all know that they take students without it, in this case it sounds like your kids did not have it.

In any case, being compared to peers is also enormous. And school you are applying to is also a factor. If your child was at TJ and applying to engineering it is easier to understand a waitlist than if your child is from Roanoke applying to Arts and Sciences.

PP. I agree. I must not have been clear.

Dont know how true highest rigor theory is but I know several kids from our MCPS high school who were accepted to UVA without the highest rigor. Some of them only took as some DCUM posters call fluff AP CLASSES like Econ, Psychology, Human Geo, etc.. no AP science classes and no AP history classes. Applied and accepted to UVA business school. Good SAT and ECs.

NP. UVA's undergrad business school does not admit freshmen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Despite what you always hear, I know several non-hooked kids that have gotten into top 20 without top rigor across the board. They all had good GPAs but not top rigor in 100% of their classes.

What is your experience?

DC was not top rigor across all 5 subjects. Did not take AP Calc, as it is not necessary for what he wants to study. In early at T20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3.98/4.5, 1560 got WL at UVA a couple years ago.
4y FL, World, APUSH, APGov, Phy C-Mech, E&M, Calc BC, Calc 3/Linear BUT no lang nor lit. Yep, rigor in ALL areas.

I am surprised kid din't get into UVA but this is specifically NOT "rigor in all areas." You said no AP Lang or Lit. UVA admissions people state over and over that they want to see APs in all major subject areas. And while of course we all know that they take students without it, in this case it sounds like your kids did not have it.

In any case, being compared to peers is also enormous. And school you are applying to is also a factor. If your child was at TJ and applying to engineering it is easier to understand a waitlist than if your child is from Roanoke applying to Arts and Sciences.

PP. I agree. I must not have been clear.

Dont know how true highest rigor theory is but I know several kids from our MCPS high school who were accepted to UVA without the highest rigor. Some of them only took as some DCUM posters call fluff AP CLASSES like Econ, Psychology, Human Geo, etc.. no AP science classes and no AP history classes. Applied and accepted to UVA business school. Good SAT and ECs.

well this isn't even possible as the UVA business school requires a sophomore year application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3.98/4.5, 1560 got WL at UVA a couple years ago.
4y FL, World, APUSH, APGov, Phy C-Mech, E&M, Calc BC, Calc 3/Linear BUT no lang nor lit. Yep, rigor in ALL areas.

I am surprised kid din't get into UVA but this is specifically NOT "rigor in all areas." You said no AP Lang or Lit. UVA admissions people state over and over that they want to see APs in all major subject areas. And while of course we all know that they take students without it, in this case it sounds like your kids did not have it.

In any case, being compared to peers is also enormous. And school you are applying to is also a factor. If your child was at TJ and applying to engineering it is easier to understand a waitlist than if your child is from Roanoke applying to Arts and Sciences.

PP. I agree. I must not have been clear.

Dont know how true highest rigor theory is but I know several kids from our MCPS high school who were accepted to UVA without the highest rigor. Some of them only took as some DCUM posters call fluff AP CLASSES like Econ, Psychology, Human Geo, etc.. no AP science classes and no AP history classes. Applied and accepted to UVA business school. Good SAT and ECs.

well this isn't even possible as the UVA business school requires a sophomore year application.

Maybe this was a few years back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Top rigor" doesn't mean the hardest class every single time you have a choice. It just means above a certain threshold.

No, it means your student is taking the most rigorous courses offered by the high school in five core subjects (UVA) and the college counselor will attest to that.

The year my kid was admitted to UVA, they were one of only a handful taking DiffEQ senior year. Plenty of other kids got into UVA that year without it; I imagine many of whom took Calculus junior year. So they either took AP stats or no math senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3.98/4.5, 1560 got WL at UVA a couple years ago.
4y FL, World, APUSH, APGov, Phy C-Mech, E&M, Calc BC, Calc 3/Linear BUT no lang nor lit. Yep, rigor in ALL areas.

I am surprised kid din't get into UVA but this is specifically NOT "rigor in all areas." You said no AP Lang or Lit. UVA admissions people state over and over that they want to see APs in all major subject areas. And while of course we all know that they take students without it, in this case it sounds like your kids did not have it.

In any case, being compared to peers is also enormous. And school you are applying to is also a factor. If your child was at TJ and applying to engineering it is easier to understand a waitlist than if your child is from Roanoke applying to Arts and Sciences.

PP. I agree. I must not have been clear.

Dont know how true highest rigor theory is but I know several kids from our MCPS high school who were accepted to UVA without the highest rigor. Some of them only took as some DCUM posters call fluff AP CLASSES like Econ, Psychology, Human Geo, etc.. no AP science classes and no AP history classes. Applied and accepted to UVA business school. Good SAT and ECs.

well this isn't even possible as the UVA business school requires a sophomore year application.

The kid says he is going to study business at UVA. I am not familiar with how UVA admissions work and individual schools. All I know is what classes the kid took and his overall stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3.98/4.5, 1560 got WL at UVA a couple years ago.
4y FL, World, APUSH, APGov, Phy C-Mech, E&M, Calc BC, Calc 3/Linear BUT no lang nor lit. Yep, rigor in ALL areas.

I am surprised kid din't get into UVA but this is specifically NOT "rigor in all areas." You said no AP Lang or Lit. UVA admissions people state over and over that they want to see APs in all major subject areas. And while of course we all know that they take students without it, in this case it sounds like your kids did not have it.

In any case, being compared to peers is also enormous. And school you are applying to is also a factor. If your child was at TJ and applying to engineering it is easier to understand a waitlist than if your child is from Roanoke applying to Arts and Sciences.

PP. I agree. I must not have been clear.

Dont know how true highest rigor theory is but I know several kids from our MCPS high school who were accepted to UVA without the highest rigor. Some of them only took as some DCUM posters call fluff AP CLASSES like Econ, Psychology, Human Geo, etc.. no AP science classes and no AP history classes. Applied and accepted to UVA business school. Good SAT and ECs.

well this isn't even possible as the UVA business school requires a sophomore year application.

Maybe this was a few years back?

No its this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At our private school I have seen kid without taking the highest math rigor get into Princeton this year but the kid was deep into languages and classics.

But what do you mean when you say "without taking the highest math rigor "? If all you mean is that the student did not reach the highest available classes, then you are misinterpreting what colleges expect. For the most part, a humanities major would be considered "highest rigor" with Calculus AB.

+2 At my DC’s private school, you can’t chose to take Calc AB or Calc BC. You have to take Calc AB for a year and then Calc BC. This just isn’t possible for a lot of kids that aren’t entering high school at a certain level of math. Kids in Calc AB senior year are among the top students. There are definitely kids in Calc BC, multivariate calculus, and linear algebra, but the numbers are really low. So it is all in the context of your school. I have heard that at public schools where large number of kids are super accelerated in math Calc BC might be a rigor threshold. Private schools just don’t push acceleration as much.