Rigor - Is it that important?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3.98/4.5, 1560 got WL at UVA a couple years ago.
4y FL, World, APUSH, APGov, Phy C-Mech, E&M, Calc BC, Calc 3/Linear BUT no lang nor lit. Yep, rigor in ALL areas.

I am surprised kid din't get into UVA but this is specifically NOT "rigor in all areas." You said no AP Lang or Lit. UVA admissions people state over and over that they want to see APs in all major subject areas. And while of course we all know that they take students without it, in this case it sounds like your kids did not have it.

In any case, being compared to peers is also enormous. And school you are applying to is also a factor. If your child was at TJ and applying to engineering it is easier to understand a waitlist than if your child is from Roanoke applying to Arts and Sciences.

PP. I agree. I must not have been clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So which of the following unhooked applicants from the same high school gets in to T10/20 if all others (ECs, reco letters) very comparable?

Applicant A: 4.0 from 9th grade to 12th, taking normal courses. 4 years average 4.0

Applicant B: 3.7 in 9th grade, 3.9 in 10th grade, 4.0 in 11th and 12th grade, taking most rigorous courses. 4 years average 3.9

Applicant A isn't getting in. A 4.0 in all standard classes isn't impressive at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Despite what you always hear, I know several non-hooked kids that have gotten into top 20 without top rigor across the board. They all had good GPAs but not top rigor in 100% of their classes.

What is your experience?

No, you really don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite what you always hear, I know several non-hooked kids that have gotten into top 20 without top rigor across the board. They all had good GPAs but not top rigor in 100% of their classes.

What is your experience?

No, you really don’t.

But I do. I'm not from the DMV and that might upset you, but at our public in the northeast there are several T20 non-hooked admits this year and last -- all with great GPAs and standard strong ECs, but not top rigor across the board.

[Anonymous]

I have a senior and know many of their peers/classmates. What I have seen-

Kids who take real rigor have better college results even if they have a few Bs — although those B’s should be in very hard advanced courses.

Alternatively, I have also seen kids get into very selective schools with less than sterling records.

If you are one of these kids you need something else - legacy, back door entrance, first gen/URM, feeder, etc.

I have seen over and over students getting into very selective colleges who are not competitive at that level.

A lot goes on behind closed doors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite what you always hear, I know several non-hooked kids that have gotten into top 20 without top rigor across the board. They all had good GPAs but not top rigor in 100% of their classes.

What is your experience?

No, you really don’t.

But I do. I'm not from the DMV and that might upset you, but at our public in the northeast there are several T20 non-hooked admits this year and last -- all with great GPAs and standard strong ECs, but not top rigor across the board.

I mean if it is one class where kid takes french 4 instead of the AP or doubles on an AP science and has honors world his, sure. But that’s pretty much it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on. If you apply for CS in MIT or CMU, yes, absolutely. If you apply for Gender Studies in Cornell, no.

Not true. Majors are selected after sophomore year. They just care about GPA from my TJ child experience. Even they don’t care about SAT 1580

Specifically for the example I list, MIT and CMU especially look at your highest math course and math score in SAT. Most engineer schools check your grades in AP physics and Multi Cal. That’s not news.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So which of the following unhooked applicants from the same high school gets in to T10/20 if all others (ECs, reco letters) very comparable?

Applicant A: 4.0 from 9th grade to 12th, taking normal courses. 4 years average 4.0

Applicant B: 3.7 in 9th grade, 3.9 in 10th grade, 4.0 in 11th and 12th grade, taking most rigorous courses. 4 years average 3.9


Neither. But B is much stronger and at least has a chance.

[Anonymous]

IMO if the kid is hooked, GPA rules.

If not, rigor will count with a tough school.

Both cases, rigor in high school will be valuable for a great colege experience.

[Anonymous]

This discussion is so pointless. No one will stop you from encouraging your kids to take easier classes to get all A.

Why do you need some strangers' validation on Internet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC was not top rigor across all 5 subjects. In early to HYPS. Had the grades and test scores, but less than 10 APs. Public school.

Wow! congrats! hooked or a unique angle or athlete?

Thanks. I would say just a strong compelling application with strong LORs (one teacher showed it to him after acceptance) and essays to back it up. Followed interests and went deep. Did not fall into the pressure of AP rat race. Made choices that worked for him and course selection made sense. Some prestigious awards and one internship that all came about from following his interests.

Two kids from our public were accepted into the same HYPS in the early round. The other applicant had 13+ APs but also showed deep interest in STEM field with research publications. DC had less than 10 APs. Strong scores. They both had most rigorous marked on the counselor rec.

My takeaway - make a strong application all around that tells your story. One class or AP is not going to make or break you. Try to aim for all As but a B is not going to throw your app in the reject pile.

Finally, if your kids doesn't have the interest or curiosity or whatever you want to call it, then maybe just accept that there are many great schools out there. We have younger ones who might be better at grinding out APs, As, and test scores, but they don't have the uniqueness and intellectual drive as DC1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC was not top rigor across all 5 subjects. In early to HYPS. Had the grades and test scores, but less than 10 APs. Public school.

Wow! congrats! hooked or a unique angle or athlete?

Thanks. I would say just a strong compelling application with strong LORs (one teacher showed it to him after acceptance) and essays to back it up. Followed interests and went deep. Did not fall into the pressure of AP rat race. Made choices that worked for him and course selection made sense. Some prestigious awards and one internship that all came about from following his interests.

Two kids from our public were accepted into the same HYPS in the early round. The other applicant had 13+ APs but also showed deep interest in STEM field with research publications. DC had less than 10 APs. Strong scores. They both had most rigorous marked on the counselor rec.

My takeaway - make a strong application all around that tells your story. One class or AP is not going to make or break you. Try to aim for all As but a B is not going to throw your app in the reject pile.

Finally, if your kids doesn't have the interest or curiosity or whatever you want to call it, then maybe just accept that there are many great schools out there. We have younger ones who might be better at grinding out APs, As, and test scores, but they don't have the uniqueness and intellectual drive as DC1.

A barb?

[Anonymous]

At our private school I have seen kid without taking the highest math rigor get into Princeton this year but the kid was deep into languages and classics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our private school I have seen kid without taking the highest math rigor get into Princeton this year but the kid was deep into languages and classics.

I have seen similar for creative writing at Princeton. Max at Calc AB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So which of the following unhooked applicants from the same high school gets in to T10/20 if all others (ECs, reco letters) very comparable?

Applicant A: 4.0 from 9th grade to 12th, taking normal courses. 4 years average 4.0

Applicant B: 3.7 in 9th grade, 3.9 in 10th grade, 4.0 in 11th and 12th grade, taking most rigorous courses. 4 years average 3.9

Applicant A isn't getting in. A 4.0 in all standard classes isn't impressive at all.

Applicant B has a much better shot at all T50s than applicant A. Applicant B, depending on the high school and where that cGPA falls relative to peers, and considering the impressive upward trend and top rigor, has the chance for a T15/ivy especially if they ED to one and pick carefully.

DCUM always goes in circles with GPA vs rigor. The true winners with the best odds of elite admission are the students that do both, top grades and top rigor. That is typically tablestakes for T15/ivy and many who legitimately have both do not get in because there are too many who have it all!