Why do people say schools in NOVA are competitive and cutthroat when people also say the education system here is bad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to see how Singapore school system works, go to you tube and search for the video Inside Singapores Elite Education System by SBS Dateline

The show walks through the pressure that 11 year olds have on them to prepare for the test to attend HS. A low score sends you to vo Tech school where they teach things like cooking and how to be a barista. This schooling starts at 12.

70% of kids are participating in tutoring programs. The kid that they followed is in school from 9-1:30, science tutoring for 2 hours, drama class for 2 hours, and then has 2 hours of homework before bed.

So when we are comparing HS test scores, remember that we are comparing only the kids who test into the college prep classes vs all of the kids who attend HS in the US.

And this system is not unique to Singapore, it exists across a lot of Asia.

European education is somewhere between the US and Singapore.

Germany sorts kids at around 15 into apprenticeships/votech or college-bound.

The French do something similar. I was sent to the scientific section with speciality in biology. They said I didn't have the grades for the math/physics section. When I graduated school I couldn't get into an engineering program because of that. I randomly picked medicine even though I didn't want to be a doctor. But I was stuck because they sent me to the biology speciality in HS.

Thank God the US is not backward like that. I came here and studied engineering.

The French and German educational systems are hardly “backward.” They have both proven they are far more effective, practical, and efficient than the current U.S. system.

In the U.S., we are headed in the wrong direction, educationally.

There is ample evidence the rest of the world is leaving the U.S. behind when it comes to education:

[Anonymous]

All of those countries only test the kids who have tested into college prep programs. Test only the kids in AP/IB classes and the US would have the same results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to see how Singapore school system works, go to you tube and search for the video Inside Singapores Elite Education System by SBS Dateline

The show walks through the pressure that 11 year olds have on them to prepare for the test to attend HS. A low score sends you to vo Tech school where they teach things like cooking and how to be a barista. This schooling starts at 12.

70% of kids are participating in tutoring programs. The kid that they followed is in school from 9-1:30, science tutoring for 2 hours, drama class for 2 hours, and then has 2 hours of homework before bed.

So when we are comparing HS test scores, remember that we are comparing only the kids who test into the college prep classes vs all of the kids who attend HS in the US.

And this system is not unique to Singapore, it exists across a lot of Asia.

European education is somewhere between the US and Singapore.

Germany sorts kids at around 15 into apprenticeships/votech or college-bound.

The French do something similar. I was sent to the scientific section with speciality in biology. They said I didn't have the grades for the math/physics section. When I graduated school I couldn't get into an engineering program because of that. I randomly picked medicine even though I didn't want to be a doctor. But I was stuck because they sent me to the biology speciality in HS.

Thank God the US is not backward like that. I came here and studied engineering.

The French and German educational systems are hardly “backward.” They have both proven they are far more effective, practical, and efficient than the current U.S. system.

In the U.S., we are headed in the wrong direction, educationally.

They are different philosophical approaches to education. The US tries to provide the same opportunities to everyone. Europe and Asia sort kids based on abilities at a young age limiting opportunities. If European and Asian countries included test results for the kids in the votech programs, which start at 12, their test scores would drop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All of those countries only test the kids who have tested into college prep programs. Test only the kids in AP/IB classes and the US would have the same results.

Are you so sure about that? No knock on the families that immigrated but a lot of the Asian kids that come over to America in K-12 were not the smartest kids in the classes that they departed from. In many cases they couldn't keep up. However, very many of these kids have been the top students in their class in American schools in the best school districts in not only math and science, but also in other subjects even though English is not their native language. This has been true for at least 40 years. It's the whole reason why holistic admissions was invented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of those countries only test the kids who have tested into college prep programs. Test only the kids in AP/IB classes and the US would have the same results.

Are you so sure about that? No knock on the families that immigrated but a lot of the Asian kids that come over to America in K-12 were not the smartest kids in the classes that they departed from. In many cases they couldn't keep up. However, very many of these kids have been the top students in their class in American schools in the best school districts in not only math and science, but also in other subjects even though English is not their native language. This has been true for at least 40 years. It's the whole reason why holistic admissions was invented.

Yes because I know that there are tests across Europe and Asia that track kids into non-college prep schools starting in 5th grade.

And there are posts in this topic from people in India, Mali, and Germany that talk about the lack of education for everyone and how kids are tracked.

There are plenty of people who come to the US for education because the exams given to kids in 5th grade and 8th grade and 12th grade exclude kids from educational opportunities. They come to the US and are able to attend college prep programs in high school or University and go on to earn degrees and get good jobs. Degrees and jobs that they would have been excluded from in their home country.

You shouldn't have to be doing Algebra in 6th grade to go to a college prep MS/HS. Most of the kids in the US don't take Algebra until 8th grade, our part of NOVA is different in that kids can take Algebra earlier but that is an anomaly, and they go on to AP/IB classes in HS and then college. But in parts of Asia, without a grasp of Algebra as a 12 year old, you go to a votech school. If you think that is the threshold for keeping up then more power to you. I took 3 years of math in HS, all non-honors, and was able to earn a PhD in a humanities field and now make a very nice salary. In Asia and Europe, I would have been sent to votech school. I prefer the US system where all kids have an opportunity to succeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of those countries only test the kids who have tested into college prep programs. Test only the kids in AP/IB classes and the US would have the same results.

Are you so sure about that? No knock on the families that immigrated but a lot of the Asian kids that come over to America in K-12 were not the smartest kids in the classes that they departed from. In many cases they couldn't keep up. However, very many of these kids have been the top students in their class in American schools in the best school districts in not only math and science, but also in other subjects even though English is not their native language. This has been true for at least 40 years. It's the whole reason why holistic admissions was invented.

False

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of those countries only test the kids who have tested into college prep programs. Test only the kids in AP/IB classes and the US would have the same results.

Are you so sure about that? No knock on the families that immigrated but a lot of the Asian kids that come over to America in K-12 were not the smartest kids in the classes that they departed from. In many cases they couldn't keep up. However, very many of these kids have been the top students in their class in American schools in the best school districts in not only math and science, but also in other subjects even though English is not their native language. This has been true for at least 40 years. It's the whole reason why holistic admissions was invented.

False

Absolutely true. Embarrassing but native white kids couldn't keep up with EFL immigrants in the classroom nor on standardized tests. If you followed admissions trends for the past 40 years, you'd know all the barriers that have been put up to try and keep Asian kids from top schools. And when that didn't work, they took them all away or made them optional. Then they added all sorts of stupid non-academic things along the way such as sports and fake foundations but that didn't work either. So they added more invasive things such as personal essays to identify and exclude by calling Asians robots. Whats crazy is that you're going to argue that this isn't true and/or that some arbitrary "well-roundedness" metric that favors white kids is what college campuses need. Meanwhile 40 years ago you'd have been arguing that test scores are the most important thing because the score distribution didn't look so bad for white kids then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of those countries only test the kids who have tested into college prep programs. Test only the kids in AP/IB classes and the US would have the same results.

Are you so sure about that? No knock on the families that immigrated but a lot of the Asian kids that come over to America in K-12 were not the smartest kids in the classes that they departed from. In many cases they couldn't keep up. However, very many of these kids have been the top students in their class in American schools in the best school districts in not only math and science, but also in other subjects even though English is not their native language. This has been true for at least 40 years. It's the whole reason why holistic admissions was invented.

Yes because I know that there are tests across Europe and Asia that track kids into non-college prep schools starting in 5th grade.

And there are posts in this topic from people in India, Mali, and Germany that talk about the lack of education for everyone and how kids are tracked.

There are plenty of people who come to the US for education because the exams given to kids in 5th grade and 8th grade and 12th grade exclude kids from educational opportunities. They come to the US and are able to attend college prep programs in high school or University and go on to earn degrees and get good jobs. Degrees and jobs that they would have been excluded from in their home country.

You shouldn't have to be doing Algebra in 6th grade to go to a college prep MS/HS. Most of the kids in the US don't take Algebra until 8th grade, our part of NOVA is different in that kids can take Algebra earlier but that is an anomaly, and they go on to AP/IB classes in HS and then college. But in parts of Asia, without a grasp of Algebra as a 12 year old, you go to a votech school. If you think that is the threshold for keeping up then more power to you. I took 3 years of math in HS, all non-honors, and was able to earn a PhD in a humanities field and now make a very nice salary. In Asia and Europe, I would have been sent to votech school. I prefer the US system where all kids have an opportunity to succeed.

This is not true for at least several countries in Asia. Those vocational kids are not coming to America and excelling. The kids that are mid in normal schools/classes are the ones that are coming to America and graduating at or near the top of their class. They're the ones that have learned more math, science, and history in their native country so that they're able to learn the language (English) in those subjects instead of learning the concepts because oftentimes they've already been exposed to the material but just in another language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not in NOVA but in an area that's described similarly. I had no idea, but it's turns out that a significant portion of parents have been supplementing heavily outside of school as early as kindergarten. The slower parents began supplementing midway through elementary. Very few kids are just ending up in top level math or English because school doesn't even teach grade level material anymore. School is for working on the bottom half to reach passing levels, and most of the effort goes to the bottom 10%, who are allowed to disrupt and drag down the entire class. I didn't realize I was "supposed to" put my 8 year old in 3 hours of tutoring every single week and have her work on math workbooks every night.

Anyway, that is how things become cutthroat by middle school.

I refused to have my kid "waste" most of the day at school and then have to give up play/extracurriculars so that I could supplement what they should have already learned.

We did not have enough $ for private so we homeschooled until high school.

Child was a bit bored in high school academically, but had a great group of friends. College is finally the best of both worlds.

[Anonymous]

I get it. Wealthy area, in a country with a diminishing middle class a) you have people that have too much that dont have to work manual labor b) poor people with not enough who work hard who will never be appreciated. Rich people are usually cut throat in their jealousy about virtuous workers that take on a lot and strive for success. But it's alot of work. I would say the rich people spend their time playing politics, sabotaging each other, bullying, shopping, endless vacations- but laziness and poor work ethic does not make you smart or strong or noble no matter how big your bank account.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to see how Singapore school system works, go to you tube and search for the video Inside Singapores Elite Education System by SBS Dateline

The show walks through the pressure that 11 year olds have on them to prepare for the test to attend HS. A low score sends you to vo Tech school where they teach things like cooking and how to be a barista. This schooling starts at 12.

70% of kids are participating in tutoring programs. The kid that they followed is in school from 9-1:30, science tutoring for 2 hours, drama class for 2 hours, and then has 2 hours of homework before bed.

So when we are comparing HS test scores, remember that we are comparing only the kids who test into the college prep classes vs all of the kids who attend HS in the US.

And this system is not unique to Singapore, it exists across a lot of Asia.

European education is somewhere between the US and Singapore.

Germany sorts kids at around 15 into apprenticeships/votech or college-bound.

The French do something similar. I was sent to the scientific section with speciality in biology. They said I didn't have the grades for the math/physics section. When I graduated school I couldn't get into an engineering program because of that. I randomly picked medicine even though I didn't want to be a doctor. But I was stuck because they sent me to the biology speciality in HS.

Thank God the US is not backward like that. I came here and studied engineering.

The French and German educational systems are hardly “backward.” They have both proven they are far more effective, practical, and efficient than the current U.S. system.

In the U.S., we are headed in the wrong direction, educationally.

They are different philosophical approaches to education. The US tries to provide the same opportunities to everyone. Europe and Asia sort kids based on abilities at a young age limiting opportunities. If European and Asian countries included test results for the kids in the votech programs, which start at 12, their test scores would drop.

They aren’t “philosophical” approaches, they are money saving approaches. The US has always been committed to educate every child in America. We don’t limit opportunities for 12 year olds in this country.

We have always had endless immigrants coming into the country. We wouldn’t have a country without immigration. Our schools survive.

European countries have many immigrants, refugees in their countries too. Germany has the most refugees and asylum seekers out of all the other European countries.

I wouldn’t blame asylum seekers or refugees or new immigrants for the poorly performing school systems. It’s not them. Most likely it’s no money for necessities. It will only get worse as Trump has never made education a priority. The taxes are being used to bomb people in various parts of the world, fake police terrorizing families from South America or in his own pocket.