Can boys join Girls On The Run?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Yeah, this poster has some victim mentality for sure, great to see this is what they'll be teaching their sons

Like it or not you cannot force 7 year olds to be intersectional feminists out of the gate. If you actually cared about feminism (as I do) you would take this at face value. But I get it is much more fun to be tribal and superior about it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

"Not every organization is open to every kid, let's find something that fits you." Is not a hard conversation. Lots of kids can't do activities for all sorts of reasons.

Is your kid 5? Because that is not going to be enough of an answer for an older or more persistent kid.

An older kid absolutely should understand not every club is for them.

An older kid will ask “why is it OK for there to be an all-girls club? Why can’t I join girl scouts and sell cookies too? Why can’t I wear a Boys Rule shirt?”

Actually, boys have NEVER been excluded from Girl Scouts. They just don't want to join. As a former GS participant and leader, I've always been annoyed that people have been so focused on getting girls into Boy Scouts (now rebranded just Scouts) because of the perception that the boys get to do cool outdoorsy stuff while the girls sit inside and do crafts. It's 100% based on troop and leader interested and initiative, but the assumption is just that the boys' stuff is cooler.

Wait is that actually true? If so it is not advertised that way. My DS definitely thinks Girls Scouts is cooler but probably too late for him.

It isn't advertised, but that is what I remember from being a leader.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

Mom of a boy and a girl here. It’s really not, since multiple people have posted boy equivalent clubs exist at their school.

And you are part of the problem if you are teaching your sons that discrimination and problematic social norms are a thing of the past. I am a woman in science and I was asked about my reproductive plans in my dissertation committee meeting not long ago at all and not long after my advisor admitted he figured I would end up following my husband wherever he went following my defense. A former boss later told me he hired me because he found me attractive, and repeatedly tried to get me to do inappropriate things like go in a hot tub after work with him (I was 10 years younger and had a serious boyfriend) I also have had to repeatedly set boundaries with my in laws who think women should not work outside the house. Many women who I knew from my program have quit science all together because research remains incredibly unfamiliar friendly and they were unable to do the majority of the care for their children and houses and maintain that type of career. I don’t know of a single man who had to make that choice.

So in light of that experience, I take a very active role in a science program at my kids school. It is NOT restricted to either gender but the two of us who did a lot of the work to make it happen had a passion for making women in the sciences visible, though there has never been any girl specific messaging in our program.

What we DID NOT expect is that we literally have not been able to get a dad to help out for 4 years. We have actively asked for male volunteers because men can be scientists too! But nope, not interested. I suppose the boy moms blamed the “girl power movement” for the some how.

The point is, people make time for what is important to them. If you want your son to have an opportunity to run there absolutely is one. If you want it to be at the school you might have to make some effort.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Yeah, this poster has some victim mentality for sure, great to see this is what they'll be teaching their sons :roll:

"Never try and whine about things being unfair. Someone somewhere filed a lawsuit once so that means we can't try." Yeah that's going to suit boys well.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Yeah, this poster has some victim mentality for sure, great to see this is what they'll be teaching their sons

Like it or not you cannot force 7 year olds to be intersectional feminists out of the gate. If you actually cared about feminism (as I do) you would take this at face value. But I get it is much more fun to be tribal and superior about it.

What? We're talking about trying to start clubs to give our boys a positive experience. My experience is that most people are not willing to step up to lead stuff, so people with motivation can make things happen most of the time. But you seem pretty sure we are all conspiring to stop you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

"Not every organization is open to every kid, let's find something that fits you." Is not a hard conversation. Lots of kids can't do activities for all sorts of reasons.

Is your kid 5? Because that is not going to be enough of an answer for an older or more persistent kid.

A boy feeling entitled to girls’ spaces? And you don’t see how that is problematic?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

"Not every organization is open to every kid, let's find something that fits you." Is not a hard conversation. Lots of kids can't do activities for all sorts of reasons.

Is your kid 5? Because that is not going to be enough of an answer for an older or more persistent kid.

An older kid absolutely should understand not every club is for them.

An older kid will ask “why is it OK for there to be an all-girls club? Why can’t I join girl scouts and sell cookies too? Why can’t I wear a Boys Rule shirt?”

Ask them ask their own question.

Part of the issue is they don’t really want to join Girl Scouts and sell cookies, do they? They just feel entitled to having the option.

And if they say “that isn’t fair!” it’s a good time to remind them that what is fair and what is equal are not necessarily the same things.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Yeah, this poster has some victim mentality for sure, great to see this is what they'll be teaching their sons

Like it or not you cannot force 7 year olds to be intersectional feminists out of the gate. If you actually cared about feminism (as I do) you would take this at face value. But I get it is much more fun to be tribal and superior about it.

I have a seven year old boy and he's never had trouble with the concept of "Scouts is for everyone but girl scouts is just for girls". Of course we have very active parent volunteers so Scouts is incredibly strong at his school. He also does a lot of different activities from his friends so the concept of "we do different things" isn't tough at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

How is wanting to open up a “girls only” club that is popular and fun, to both girls and boys, “tearing down girls”? Imagine the opposite argument- a parent saying allowing girls to apply to medical school is “tearing down and taking away chances for boys.” Ridiculous and dangerous, right?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Yeah, this poster has some victim mentality for sure, great to see this is what they'll be teaching their sons

Like it or not you cannot force 7 year olds to be intersectional feminists out of the gate. If you actually cared about feminism (as I do) you would take this at face value. But I get it is much more fun to be tribal and superior about it.

What? We're talking about trying to start clubs to give our boys a positive experience. My experience is that most people are not willing to step up to lead stuff, so people with motivation can make things happen most of the time. But you seem pretty sure we are all conspiring to stop you.

Come on just stop. Not everyone has the resources to just “start a club” and anyone who has been even peripherally involved in PTA crap knows that there are many hurdles and possible actual roadblocks. People still get mad if you even dare to say out loud that your boy feels excluded. as evinced on this thread! Plus there is no other area where we would put the burden on the excluded group to fix things. My stance is that the institutions that are supporting all girl organizations need to also be affirmatively supporting all boys groups. If you object to that, ask yourself why.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No. And use the opportunity to help him understand the motivation behind programs like this for girls. If he is elementary age, he can understand it.

Sort of like Cub Scouts used to be just for boys, until parents of girls ruined that?

Cub scouts let girls in because they were in financial trouble and needed a way to boost membership. And no, it hasn't ruined it for the boys at all. -Mom of a (boy) Cub scout.

Of course it has. The entire premise of the organization changed. Just because you have told your son that it’s good and normal doesn’t mean that it is.

Literally none of the Scout laws have changed. And thinking that it's not "good and normal" because there were girls at Pinewood Derby today is pretty bonkers.

So why can’t boys be at GOTR then? The girls (and boys) can still get exercise and learn leadership skills. Just like by allowing girls into cub scouts, the boys can still race pinewood derby cars.

You can’t have it both ways and roll your eyes and say of course it’s fine to allow girls to join a boys only organization, and simultaneously insist boys can’t join a girls only organization.

Last time I checked, girls could do both Girl Scouts and cub scouts, but boys couldn’t do Girl Scouts. So the message here is that girls can do anything and boys cannot. Look at the best students, the leaders, the art competition winners, the class presidents in your child’s elementary school. Then tell me if it’s girls or boys who are losing their way and losing their sense of belonging right now.

Oh and check the suspension rate for girls vs boys while you’re at it.

Look, I'm all for more appropriate developmental approaches to kids in schools. I've worked to improve my kid's school. But again none of this explains why girls in my son's Cub Scout troop is harmful or not normal, as was claimed previously.

Boy Scouts went coed to survive after the organization massively screwed up with a child abuse scandal (and they have taken steps, as a volunteer I eent through a bunch of training and rules to prevent abuse situation). Girls didn't force their way in or take something away from the boys.

There are also boys running programs, as shown by a quick Google. Let me Run and Boys Gotta Run for two examples.

But boys see that those organizations don’t exist and it is a bit much to expect parents to immediately start one as soon as the boy notices it. Yes we do need to create opportunities for boys but you are not being realistic if you think the same kind of support exists as for girls organizations - in terms of grants, organizing help, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if many PTAs and schools passively or even actively prevent a boys club from getting off the ground.

How do you think the girls organizations got started? Genuinely.

And I know starting a club isn't easy because I've done it. But I did do it. Demanding there's instantly a club for you without putting any work in so... girls stuff bad? You're tearing down and refusing to build. Do better.

No you “do better.” because we all know that you would be the PTA mom who would withhold the funding for an organization that centers boys.

I like that you have to make up facts to justify your point. Because I did actually start a club that benefits boys and went and got outside funding. But that somehow means I'd deny a boys group.

Again, you want a boy's club, go found one. Find an activity for your kid.

Did you start a boys-only club?

No because there is no funding and no school leadership support for a “boy power!” club. Probably the same reason why there is a “strong like a girl!” Poster in the gym and no “strong like a boy!” poster. My son actually asked about that disparity when he was a first grader and I ended up explaining it a clumsy way that probably did more harm than good , like “girls aren’t as strong as boys usually so this helps them feel like they’re just as good at sports as the boys”. And then I was like well actually that sounds patronizing. The poster still bugs me.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

"Not every organization is open to every kid, let's find something that fits you." Is not a hard conversation. Lots of kids can't do activities for all sorts of reasons.

Is your kid 5? Because that is not going to be enough of an answer for an older or more persistent kid.

A boy feeling entitled to girls’ spaces? And you don’t see how that is problematic?

lol thanks for making the point for me. A 5 year old boy who wants to join GOTR is a jr rapist in your book.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Yeah, this poster has some victim mentality for sure, great to see this is what they'll be teaching their sons

Like it or not you cannot force 7 year olds to be intersectional feminists out of the gate. If you actually cared about feminism (as I do) you would take this at face value. But I get it is much more fun to be tribal and superior about it.

What? We're talking about trying to start clubs to give our boys a positive experience. My experience is that most people are not willing to step up to lead stuff, so people with motivation can make things happen most of the time. But you seem pretty sure we are all conspiring to stop you.

Come on just stop. Not everyone has the resources to just “start a club” and anyone who has been even peripherally involved in PTA crap knows that there are many hurdles and possible actual roadblocks. People still get mad if you even dare to say out loud that your boy feels excluded. as evinced on this thread! Plus there is no other area where we would put the burden on the excluded group to fix things. My stance is that the institutions that are supporting all girl organizations need to also be affirmatively supporting all boys groups. If you object to that, ask yourself why.

Again this boils down to "I'm not putting the work in, I demand other people conform to me."

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No. And use the opportunity to help him understand the motivation behind programs like this for girls. If he is elementary age, he can understand it.

Sort of like Cub Scouts used to be just for boys, until parents of girls ruined that?

Cub scouts let girls in because they were in financial trouble and needed a way to boost membership. And no, it hasn't ruined it for the boys at all. -Mom of a (boy) Cub scout.

Of course it has. The entire premise of the organization changed. Just because you have told your son that it’s good and normal doesn’t mean that it is.

Literally none of the Scout laws have changed. And thinking that it's not "good and normal" because there were girls at Pinewood Derby today is pretty bonkers.

So why can’t boys be at GOTR then? The girls (and boys) can still get exercise and learn leadership skills. Just like by allowing girls into cub scouts, the boys can still race pinewood derby cars.

You can’t have it both ways and roll your eyes and say of course it’s fine to allow girls to join a boys only organization, and simultaneously insist boys can’t join a girls only organization.

Last time I checked, girls could do both Girl Scouts and cub scouts, but boys couldn’t do Girl Scouts. So the message here is that girls can do anything and boys cannot. Look at the best students, the leaders, the art competition winners, the class presidents in your child’s elementary school. Then tell me if it’s girls or boys who are losing their way and losing their sense of belonging right now.

Oh and check the suspension rate for girls vs boys while you’re at it.

Look, I'm all for more appropriate developmental approaches to kids in schools. I've worked to improve my kid's school. But again none of this explains why girls in my son's Cub Scout troop is harmful or not normal, as was claimed previously.

Boy Scouts went coed to survive after the organization massively screwed up with a child abuse scandal (and they have taken steps, as a volunteer I eent through a bunch of training and rules to prevent abuse situation). Girls didn't force their way in or take something away from the boys.

There are also boys running programs, as shown by a quick Google. Let me Run and Boys Gotta Run for two examples.

But boys see that those organizations don’t exist and it is a bit much to expect parents to immediately start one as soon as the boy notices it. Yes we do need to create opportunities for boys but you are not being realistic if you think the same kind of support exists as for girls organizations - in terms of grants, organizing help, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if many PTAs and schools passively or even actively prevent a boys club from getting off the ground.

How do you think the girls organizations got started? Genuinely.

And I know starting a club isn't easy because I've done it. But I did do it. Demanding there's instantly a club for you without putting any work in so... girls stuff bad? You're tearing down and refusing to build. Do better.

No you “do better.” because we all know that you would be the PTA mom who would withhold the funding for an organization that centers boys.

I like that you have to make up facts to justify your point. Because I did actually start a club that benefits boys and went and got outside funding. But that somehow means I'd deny a boys group.

Again, you want a boy's club, go found one. Find an activity for your kid.

Did you start a boys-only club?

No because there is no funding and no school leadership support for a “boy power!” club. Probably the same reason why there is a “strong like a girl!” Poster in the gym and no “strong like a boy!” poster. My son actually asked about that disparity when he was a first grader and I ended up explaining it a clumsy way that probably did more harm than good , like “girls aren’t as strong as boys usually so this helps them feel like they’re just as good at sports as the boys”. And then I was like well actually that sounds patronizing. The poster still bugs me.

I explained to my similar kiddo that “Girls Rock” just means “Girls as as good as boys” and “Boys rock” would mean “boys are better than girls.” He got it eventually but I had to explain it multiple times and also validate that it made him feel bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Yeah, this poster has some victim mentality for sure, great to see this is what they'll be teaching their sons

Like it or not you cannot force 7 year olds to be intersectional feminists out of the gate. If you actually cared about feminism (as I do) you would take this at face value. But I get it is much more fun to be tribal and superior about it.

What? We're talking about trying to start clubs to give our boys a positive experience. My experience is that most people are not willing to step up to lead stuff, so people with motivation can make things happen most of the time. But you seem pretty sure we are all conspiring to stop you.

Come on just stop. Not everyone has the resources to just “start a club” and anyone who has been even peripherally involved in PTA crap knows that there are many hurdles and possible actual roadblocks. People still get mad if you even dare to say out loud that your boy feels excluded. as evinced on this thread! Plus there is no other area where we would put the burden on the excluded group to fix things. My stance is that the institutions that are supporting all girl organizations need to also be affirmatively supporting all boys groups. If you object to that, ask yourself why.

Again this boils down to "I'm not putting the work in, I demand other people conform to me."

Look, if you are trying to convince me that boys don’t have an uphill battle for inclusion, you aren’t doing a great job.