Ranking - Immersion Schools

[Anonymous]

OP here - I’m very interested in Chisholm, but it doesn’t seem like there are very many people with experience both there (in the last few years since it converted to all immersion in the younger grades) and with immersion charters, so it seems hard to compare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From a test scores perspective, MV8 and MVP Are just not apples to apples. MV8 has half the at risk % of MVP and at risk % is a major driver of overall test numbers. I was very interested to find that white kids do significantly better at MVP than MV8 and Hispanic kids do slightly better at MV8. I strongly recommend looking at empowerk12 dashboards to get a better comparison.

OP, if you are committed to Spanish immersion and prefer charter, there is a very good chance you will be a MV parent. Stokes, LAMB, and DCB have long waitlists and MVP cleared their pk3 wait-list last year. But don't overlook convenient DCPS schools. They arguably have better immersion programs, lots of families are OOB, and DCPS is working on an immersion MS solution for CH. A lot can change in the time it takes a three year old to get to middle school.

Don’t listen to PP above. Middle school comes fast and you absolutely need to consider that in your equation.

I have absolutely no faith in DCPS to create a viable immersion middle path much less a quality one.

If you are on the hill, then you should absolutely know this OP if you talk to hill families about their middle school hopes and ultimately disappointment.

[Anonymous]

Re MV P St—there was a cohort of kids that was very unlucky in terms of pandemic timing, doing most of Kindergarten and 1st on zoom. This class struggled behaviorally and with basic math and reading. Unfortunately hires to to teach this grade were either poor fit or were poorly supported. The kids really suffered. These kids are 5th and 6th grade now. Kids who were older or younger really didn’t have this experience. I have kids 2yrs up and 1 yr younger get and they had excellent teaching while all this was going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a test scores perspective, MV8 and MVP Are just not apples to apples. MV8 has half the at risk % of MVP and at risk % is a major driver of overall test numbers. I was very interested to find that white kids do significantly better at MVP than MV8 and Hispanic kids do slightly better at MV8. I strongly recommend looking at empowerk12 dashboards to get a better comparison.

OP, if you are committed to Spanish immersion and prefer charter, there is a very good chance you will be a MV parent. Stokes, LAMB, and DCB have long waitlists and MVP cleared their pk3 wait-list last year. But don't overlook convenient DCPS schools. They arguably have better immersion programs, lots of families are OOB, and DCPS is working on an immersion MS solution for CH. A lot can change in the time it takes a three year old to get to middle school.

Don’t listen to PP above. Middle school comes fast and you absolutely need to consider that in your equation.

I have absolutely no faith in DCPS to create a viable immersion middle path much less a quality one.

If you are on the hill, then you should absolutely know this OP if you talk to hill families about their middle school hopes and ultimately disappointment.

+1 Think about your middle school options and do not assume there will be some magical dual language middle school option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a test scores perspective, MV8 and MVP Are just not apples to apples. MV8 has half the at risk % of MVP and at risk % is a major driver of overall test numbers. I was very interested to find that white kids do significantly better at MVP than MV8 and Hispanic kids do slightly better at MV8. I strongly recommend looking at empowerk12 dashboards to get a better comparison.

OP, if you are committed to Spanish immersion and prefer charter, there is a very good chance you will be a MV parent. Stokes, LAMB, and DCB have long waitlists and MVP cleared their pk3 wait-list last year. But don't overlook convenient DCPS schools. They arguably have better immersion programs, lots of families are OOB, and DCPS is working on an immersion MS solution for CH. A lot can change in the time it takes a three year old to get to middle school.

Don’t listen to PP above. Middle school comes fast and you absolutely need to consider that in your equation.

I have absolutely no faith in DCPS to create a viable immersion middle path much less a quality one.

If you are on the hill, then you should absolutely know this OP if you talk to hill families about their middle school hopes and ultimately disappointment.

+1 Think about your middle school options and do not assume there will be some magical dual language middle school option.

There is no way there is going to be any viable middle school immersion option for Chisholm. DCPS may attempt to pacify these families by putting some haphazard program in a current non-immersion school. But do people honestly naively believe if this happens and that is a big IF, it would be rigorous and have the capability for progression of the language?

I mean people, DCPS has McFarland for a long time for the DCPS bilingual schools and it has gone nowhere. Overwhelming majority kids are not even on grade level in ELA and math and are way below grade level. You really think these kids are proficient in languages??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for all the feedback. Of course I agree with all the points about the commute to DCB or LAMB being probably untenable. And points taken re: Montessori at LAMB. But as a follow up, what I want to know is - why is DCB, at least (and possibly LAMB) viewed as “better”/ more sought after than MV? What makes it better?

LAMB is a very specific program and a lot of people want Montessori, so the waitlist is long. I don’t think there is much difference between MV and DCB, so not sure why DCB viewed at “better.” Maybe people assume the long waitlist means it is better? We are at DCB and the Spanish instruction is not strong. We are native speakers and work a lot at home. My kid in upper EL has classmates that barely speak Spanish. It is a very nice community and that’s why we stay, but have many friends at MV who are happy and it also seems like a nice community. I would not select DCB/ Lamb over MV from the hill for the commute.

Because MV went through a really difficult time in the past 5 or so years and DCB has been pretty steady.

Also DCB offers a DCI guarantee, MV only has a preference.

DCB is near DCI so it's possible to live really close to both. That's not really possible with MV.

DCB also expanded so the lower grades will not have the DCI guarantee.

Not only lower grades. Current Fourth grades don’t have a guarantee already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for all the feedback. Of course I agree with all the points about the commute to DCB or LAMB being probably untenable. And points taken re: Montessori at LAMB. But as a follow up, what I want to know is - why is DCB, at least (and possibly LAMB) viewed as “better”/ more sought after than MV? What makes it better?

LAMB is the oldest immersion charter program in the city. It's a damn near perfect program for kids until they are in third grade or so, when the weaknesses of the montessori approach and the school become more apparent. The academics are not as strong as they should be and the school is pretty hostile to standardized testing. But your child will become fluent in Spanish even if the parents can't speak a word. The montessori approach allows kids a lot of freedom and while some use it to avoid math and other things they don't like, it also allows kids to work far ahead of grade level if they choose. There's no teaching down to the lowest common denominator. It is a lovely, lovely community. Behavioral issues are nonexistent. The building is gorgeous and the outdoor space is great.

This is completely untrue. I don't mean to suggest that LAMB has worse behavioral issues than anywhere else and, comparatively, it probably does well because it has favorable demographics. BUT there are DEFINITELY behavioral issues, particularly in Upper EL. My kid's class had a ripped from a TV special bully in it that the school did nothing about; my kid wasn't a target, but spoke in so much detail about what was happening that I reached out to the victim parents. They knew and were engaged with the school and... nothing.

Multiple kids at lamb and all of them had a bully in their class or a pack of kids who bullied. One of my kids had a bully who loved to say racist things about black and Latino kids, yet nothing happened. I’m still angry at myself for not pulling them from the school, particularly since I was also paying for multiple tutors. Might as well put them in a private and saved some money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From a test scores perspective, MV8 and MVP Are just not apples to apples. MV8 has half the at risk % of MVP and at risk % is a major driver of overall test numbers. I was very interested to find that white kids do significantly better at MVP than MV8 and Hispanic kids do slightly better at MV8. I strongly recommend looking at empowerk12 dashboards to get a better comparison.

OP, if you are committed to Spanish immersion and prefer charter, there is a very good chance you will be a MV parent. Stokes, LAMB, and DCB have long waitlists and MVP cleared their pk3 wait-list last year. But don't overlook convenient DCPS schools. They arguably have better immersion programs, lots of families are OOB, and DCPS is working on an immersion MS solution for CH. A lot can change in the time it takes a three year old to get to middle school.

No DCPS schools do not have better immersion programs.

Spanish takes a back seat, way back, due to the high at risk population and the focus and pressure in upper elementary is english and math and improving CAPE scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for all the feedback. Of course I agree with all the points about the commute to DCB or LAMB being probably untenable. And points taken re: Montessori at LAMB. But as a follow up, what I want to know is - why is DCB, at least (and possibly LAMB) viewed as “better”/ more sought after than MV? What makes it better?

LAMB is the oldest immersion charter program in the city. It's a damn near perfect program for kids until they are in third grade or so, when the weaknesses of the montessori approach and the school become more apparent. The academics are not as strong as they should be and the school is pretty hostile to standardized testing. But your child will become fluent in Spanish even if the parents can't speak a word. The montessori approach allows kids a lot of freedom and while some use it to avoid math and other things they don't like, it also allows kids to work far ahead of grade level if they choose. There's no teaching down to the lowest common denominator. It is a lovely, lovely community. Behavioral issues are nonexistent. The building is gorgeous and the outdoor space is great.

This is completely untrue. I don't mean to suggest that LAMB has worse behavioral issues than anywhere else and, comparatively, it probably does well because it has favorable demographics. BUT there are DEFINITELY behavioral issues, particularly in Upper EL. My kid's class had a ripped from a TV special bully in it that the school did nothing about; my kid wasn't a target, but spoke in so much detail about what was happening that I reached out to the victim parents. They knew and were engaged with the school and... nothing.

Multiple kids at lamb and all of them had a bully in their class or a pack of kids who bullied. One of my kids had a bully who loved to say racist things about black and Latino kids, yet nothing happened. I’m still angry at myself for not pulling them from the school, particularly since I was also paying for multiple tutors. Might as well put them in a private and saved some money.

Former DCPS teacher here (multiple schools) who has/had kids at LAMB (being vague for privacy reasons), including in Upper El. Behavioral issues are definitely not "non-existent" at LAMB and I absolutely don't want to undermine the experience of any kids who faced bullying at LAMB because I'm sure it happens and is super painful. THAT BEING SAID, the behavior issues at LAMB that I observed in multiple classrooms and years are TAME in comparison to the type of behavior that is typical in the average DCPS classroom or even suburban school. Yes I am sure there are mean kids and that's awful. But wow LAMB kids were so much more respectful and better behaved in aggregate than any school I taught in.

It's not a perfect school, maybe if they could get 4th / 5th grade academics stronger it would be close, but it was a place where I felt like my kids were learning how to be very good people and to act with kindness, and that's not to say that there weren't bad seeds in the school, but just that it wasn't a place where it was cool to be mean or the classrooms were wild.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for all the feedback. Of course I agree with all the points about the commute to DCB or LAMB being probably untenable. And points taken re: Montessori at LAMB. But as a follow up, what I want to know is - why is DCB, at least (and possibly LAMB) viewed as “better”/ more sought after than MV? What makes it better?

LAMB is the oldest immersion charter program in the city. It's a damn near perfect program for kids until they are in third grade or so, when the weaknesses of the montessori approach and the school become more apparent. The academics are not as strong as they should be and the school is pretty hostile to standardized testing. But your child will become fluent in Spanish even if the parents can't speak a word. The montessori approach allows kids a lot of freedom and while some use it to avoid math and other things they don't like, it also allows kids to work far ahead of grade level if they choose. There's no teaching down to the lowest common denominator. It is a lovely, lovely community. Behavioral issues are nonexistent. The building is gorgeous and the outdoor space is great.

This is completely untrue. I don't mean to suggest that LAMB has worse behavioral issues than anywhere else and, comparatively, it probably does well because it has favorable demographics. BUT there are DEFINITELY behavioral issues, particularly in Upper EL. My kid's class had a ripped from a TV special bully in it that the school did nothing about; my kid wasn't a target, but spoke in so much detail about what was happening that I reached out to the victim parents. They knew and were engaged with the school and... nothing.

Multiple kids at lamb and all of them had a bully in their class or a pack of kids who bullied. One of my kids had a bully who loved to say racist things about black and Latino kids, yet nothing happened. I’m still angry at myself for not pulling them from the school, particularly since I was also paying for multiple tutors. Might as well put them in a private and saved some money.

Former DCPS teacher here (multiple schools) who has/had kids at LAMB (being vague for privacy reasons), including in Upper El. Behavioral issues are definitely not "non-existent" at LAMB and I absolutely don't want to undermine the experience of any kids who faced bullying at LAMB because I'm sure it happens and is super painful. THAT BEING SAID, the behavior issues at LAMB that I observed in multiple classrooms and years are TAME in comparison to the type of behavior that is typical in the average DCPS classroom or even suburban school. Yes I am sure there are mean kids and that's awful. But wow LAMB kids were so much more respectful and better behaved in aggregate than any school I taught in.

Also PP here: Even saying all this, I still wouldn't drive from the Hill for LAMB (sorry OP the thread's been hijacked). I also don't think I would do DCB either. The Brookland schools, sure, but not any further.

It's not a perfect school, maybe if they could get 4th / 5th grade academics stronger it would be close, but it was a place where I felt like my kids were learning how to be very good people and to act with kindness, and that's not to say that there weren't bad seeds in the school, but just that it wasn't a place where it was cool to be mean or the classrooms were wild.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for all the feedback. Of course I agree with all the points about the commute to DCB or LAMB being probably untenable. And points taken re: Montessori at LAMB. But as a follow up, what I want to know is - why is DCB, at least (and possibly LAMB) viewed as “better”/ more sought after than MV? What makes it better?

LAMB is the oldest immersion charter program in the city. It's a damn near perfect program for kids until they are in third grade or so, when the weaknesses of the montessori approach and the school become more apparent. The academics are not as strong as they should be and the school is pretty hostile to standardized testing. But your child will become fluent in Spanish even if the parents can't speak a word. The montessori approach allows kids a lot of freedom and while some use it to avoid math and other things they don't like, it also allows kids to work far ahead of grade level if they choose. There's no teaching down to the lowest common denominator. It is a lovely, lovely community. Behavioral issues are nonexistent. The building is gorgeous and the outdoor space is great.

This is completely untrue. I don't mean to suggest that LAMB has worse behavioral issues than anywhere else and, comparatively, it probably does well because it has favorable demographics. BUT there are DEFINITELY behavioral issues, particularly in Upper EL. My kid's class had a ripped from a TV special bully in it that the school did nothing about; my kid wasn't a target, but spoke in so much detail about what was happening that I reached out to the victim parents. They knew and were engaged with the school and... nothing.

Multiple kids at lamb and all of them had a bully in their class or a pack of kids who bullied. One of my kids had a bully who loved to say racist things about black and Latino kids, yet nothing happened. I’m still angry at myself for not pulling them from the school, particularly since I was also paying for multiple tutors. Might as well put them in a private and saved some money.

Former DCPS teacher here (multiple schools) who has/had kids at LAMB (being vague for privacy reasons), including in Upper El. Behavioral issues are definitely not "non-existent" at LAMB and I absolutely don't want to undermine the experience of any kids who faced bullying at LAMB because I'm sure it happens and is super painful. THAT BEING SAID, the behavior issues at LAMB that I observed in multiple classrooms and years are TAME in comparison to the type of behavior that is typical in the average DCPS classroom or even suburban school. Yes I am sure there are mean kids and that's awful. But wow LAMB kids were so much more respectful and better behaved in aggregate than any school I taught in.

It's not a perfect school, maybe if they could get 4th / 5th grade academics stronger it would be close, but it was a place where I felt like my kids were learning how to be very good people and to act with kindness, and that's not to say that there weren't bad seeds in the school, but just that it wasn't a place where it was cool to be mean or the classrooms were wild.

Also PP here: Even saying all this, I still wouldn't drive from the Hill for LAMB (sorry OP the thread's been hijacked). I also don't think I would do DCB either. The Brookland schools, sure, but not any further.

[Anonymous]

OP here again - why do some hill people choose MV8 over MV cook? I am aware that while MV cook is located in a terrible spot with terrible drop off logistics, it is much closer to the hill than MV8. Are the logistics of getting to MV8 and drop off easier than MV cook despite the distance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here again - why do some hill people choose MV8 over MV cook? I am aware that while MV cook is located in a terrible spot with terrible drop off logistics, it is much closer to the hill than MV8. Are the logistics of getting to MV8 and drop off easier than MV cook despite the distance?

Yes, it's easier. But also MV8 was the better choice because MVP was such a mess for a while. The gap is smaller now.

I do think for people interested in moving to a single family home that also gets them closer to DCI geographically, MV8 would be the pick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here again - why do some hill people choose MV8 over MV cook? I am aware that while MV cook is located in a terrible spot with terrible drop off logistics, it is much closer to the hill than MV8. Are the logistics of getting to MV8 and drop off easier than MV cook despite the distance?

I’m a Scrilli parent with a kid at another charter and MV8 has the best organized drop off line in DC. Easily 10-15 minutes faster than my other kid’s line, and saves a ton of time. We clocked it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here again - why do some hill people choose MV8 over MV cook? I am aware that while MV cook is located in a terrible spot with terrible drop off logistics, it is much closer to the hill than MV8. Are the logistics of getting to MV8 and drop off easier than MV cook despite the distance?

I don’t know from personal experience, but one possible advantage of MV8 versus MV Cook coming from the Hill is you don’t have to cross North Capitol, which is always a mess.