Ranking - Immersion Schools

[Anonymous]

And people seem to agree - MV (both campuses) has stabilized, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And people seem to agree - MV (both campuses) has stabilized, right?

NBA was never unstable. Yes there was some turnover right after the pandemic with teachers, but that was everywhere.

It just got associated with all the drama at MVP, of which none was at MV8

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people seem to agree - MV (both campuses) has stabilized, right?

NBA was never unstable. Yes there was some turnover right after the pandemic with teachers, but that was everywhere.

It just got associated with all the drama at MVP, of which none was at MV8

I don't think MV8 was unstable, it was just new and that makes people cautious. And since it is part of MV and ultimately operated by the same top leadership, any concerns about MVP are going to cause concern about MV8. You can't operate one school that's a hot mess and not raise that question about other sites.

MVP is I guess "stable" in the sense that it's not getting worse, but its stats are still not good compared to MV8 and DCB. Looking at DC School Report Card compare function.

Kudos to MV in making these available at all, even though it took a bit of digging to find them.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1xQlHUZZ72SP1q8MCWw7lNLCBEAUhp3LRn35jh1DTxSM/edit?slide=id.g37ece349db3_0_388#slide=id.g37ece349db3_0_388

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_8ROfPu5SjwOtC_qTSbHz9RC1RoIgTTr/view -- this one has a lot of interesting information about budget cuts and layoffs at MV in the later slides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for all the feedback. Of course I agree with all the points about the commute to DCB or LAMB being probably untenable. And points taken re: Montessori at LAMB. But as a follow up, what I want to know is - why is DCB, at least (and possibly LAMB) viewed as “better”/ more sought after than MV? What makes it better?

LAMB is the oldest immersion charter program in the city. It's a damn near perfect program for kids until they are in third grade or so, when the weaknesses of the montessori approach and the school become more apparent. The academics are not as strong as they should be and the school is pretty hostile to standardized testing. But your child will become fluent in Spanish even if the parents can't speak a word. The montessori approach allows kids a lot of freedom and while some use it to avoid math and other things they don't like, it also allows kids to work far ahead of grade level if they choose. There's no teaching down to the lowest common denominator. It is a lovely, lovely community. Behavioral issues are nonexistent. The building is gorgeous and the outdoor space is great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people seem to agree - MV (both campuses) has stabilized, right?

NBA was never unstable. Yes there was some turnover right after the pandemic with teachers, but that was everywhere.

It just got associated with all the drama at MVP, of which none was at MV8

I don't think MV8 was unstable, it was just new and that makes people cautious. And since it is part of MV and ultimately operated by the same top leadership, any concerns about MVP are going to cause concern about MV8. You can't operate one school that's a hot mess and not raise that question about other sites.

MVP is I guess "stable" in the sense that it's not getting worse, but its stats are still not good compared to MV8 and DCB. Looking at DC School Report Card compare function.

Kudos to MV in making these available at all, even though it took a bit of digging to find them.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1xQlHUZZ72SP1q8MCWw7lNLCBEAUhp3LRn35jh1DTxSM/edit?slide=id.g37ece349db3_0_388#slide=id.g37ece349db3_0_388

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_8ROfPu5SjwOtC_qTSbHz9RC1RoIgTTr/view -- this one has a lot of interesting information about budget cuts and layoffs at MV in the later slides.

PP here yes it was the same ED at the top but each school has their own principal and leadership team and ran their own campus.

Some people may not have liked the old ED because of some things but to be fair, she did an amazing job when it came to the business and management side of the organization. The school was also very transparent at the board meetings and parents were always notified about them and could zoom in. Slides made public, etc..such as above.

She did have the best interest of the school and her organizational skills and understanding the big picture was top notch. I say this as someone who is in a leadership position and understand what it takes to run things. I am also a parent so saw both sides of the picture. Sure I did not agree with some decisions but it doesn’t diminish all the accomplishments she had growing the school from a basement to where it is today.

Anyway, the new ED is a parent with kids at the school and looks promising. Only time will tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can go sit in on a class at LAMB. The first time you see it, it's kinda hard to believe. The classrooms are silent. You have 30 little kids working and the classroom is so quiet it's hard to believe it's real.

It’s fantastic for early elementary. Really lovely.

Go to any party for a lamb student in upper elementary. Everyone is talking about Mathnesium, or the latest Bs drama from the administration.

I was a huge lamb booster until my kids got older and I got tired of the nonstop drama and poor academics.

I feel like supplementing particularly in math is super common across a lot of schools particularly bilingual. We have kids at another Spanish immersion on your list and I was shocked when we started to learn how many of the older kids do Russian School of Math, Mathnasium, etc. Our oldest is now in 2nd and I am generally happy with the school but I do feel like I want more rigor around math.

Seperately, I was talking to a family at Bancroft a few weeks ago who said they started doing math supplementing because they realized that their kids only knew math terminology in Spanish.

I don't have enough data points to know whether this is a DC thing or a bilingual thing or what, but I definitely don't think this is unique to LAMB at all.

First it is important to differentiate if your kid is supplementing because they are not challenged enough or if your kid needs help in math because they are struggling or not getting the basics. It sounds like at LAMB it is because the math is weak and so many kids are getting outside help to make up the deficit.

The majority of kids in general are not supplementing. If kids are supplementing with these programs or tutors most it is because they are struggling or needing instruction in core basics because the teaching is weak. It is not common for parents to put their kids in extra math if their kid is doing well.

We are at an immersion charter and the group of kids we know were not supplementing. These were kids who were the top performers in math and did well. Then again the upper grade math teachers were very strong.

I also want to add that my objective data for doing well and assessing this is MAP testing. My kid scores mid 90th percentile

The majority of kids at lamb are definitely supplementing. You probably don’t know because your kid is doing well. Go to the Mathnasium on Macomb after school and you’ll see tons of lamb parents. Our child just was missing big chunks of math instruction. We still go because it’s good solid enrichment but she’s doing well at DCI. If your kid is doing well at lamb, good for you! My kid also did well on the NWEA for a long time until she was at upper el. Her teacher blamed disinterest in the test and hormones for her poor performance. Nope- it was poor instruction. I don’t know if it’s different for other schools. My biggest beef with lamb was the constant gossip and drama around basic things like aftercare. Might be different now but it was a serious stressor on me especially as a single mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for all the feedback. Of course I agree with all the points about the commute to DCB or LAMB being probably untenable. And points taken re: Montessori at LAMB. But as a follow up, what I want to know is - why is DCB, at least (and possibly LAMB) viewed as “better”/ more sought after than MV? What makes it better?

LAMB is the oldest immersion charter program in the city. It's a damn near perfect program for kids until they are in third grade or so, when the weaknesses of the montessori approach and the school become more apparent. The academics are not as strong as they should be and the school is pretty hostile to standardized testing. But your child will become fluent in Spanish even if the parents can't speak a word. The montessori approach allows kids a lot of freedom and while some use it to avoid math and other things they don't like, it also allows kids to work far ahead of grade level if they choose. There's no teaching down to the lowest common denominator. It is a lovely, lovely community. Behavioral issues are nonexistent. The building is gorgeous and the outdoor space is great.

The building is beautiful but there are a lot of behavior issues with kids. My daughter was relentlessly bullied and the school did very little/nothing to combat that because it wasn’t directly tied to her race. They would not switch classrooms or help her avoid these kids at all. Gaslighting me was the main way they handled it.

I have also heard from parents who speak spanish that kids aren’t speaking spanish well at all. But that’s secondhand information. I know my daughter was placed in Spanish 2 when she started at dci which isn’t where I thought she’d be after immersion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can go sit in on a class at LAMB. The first time you see it, it's kinda hard to believe. The classrooms are silent. You have 30 little kids working and the classroom is so quiet it's hard to believe it's real.

It’s fantastic for early elementary. Really lovely.

Go to any party for a lamb student in upper elementary. Everyone is talking about Mathnesium, or the latest Bs drama from the administration.

I was a huge lamb booster until my kids got older and I got tired of the nonstop drama and poor academics.

I feel like supplementing particularly in math is super common across a lot of schools particularly bilingual. We have kids at another Spanish immersion on your list and I was shocked when we started to learn how many of the older kids do Russian School of Math, Mathnasium, etc. Our oldest is now in 2nd and I am generally happy with the school but I do feel like I want more rigor around math.

Seperately, I was talking to a family at Bancroft a few weeks ago who said they started doing math supplementing because they realized that their kids only knew math terminology in Spanish.

I don't have enough data points to know whether this is a DC thing or a bilingual thing or what, but I definitely don't think this is unique to LAMB at all.

First it is important to differentiate if your kid is supplementing because they are not challenged enough or if your kid needs help in math because they are struggling or not getting the basics. It sounds like at LAMB it is because the math is weak and so many kids are getting outside help to make up the deficit.

The majority of kids in general are not supplementing. If kids are supplementing with these programs or tutors most it is because they are struggling or needing instruction in core basics because the teaching is weak. It is not common for parents to put their kids in extra math if their kid is doing well.

We are at an immersion charter and the group of kids we know were not supplementing. These were kids who were the top performers in math and did well. Then again the upper grade math teachers were very strong.

I also want to add that my objective data for doing well and assessing this is MAP testing. My kid scores mid 90th percentile

The majority of kids at lamb are definitely supplementing. You probably don’t know because your kid is doing well. Go to the Mathnasium on Macomb after school and you’ll see tons of lamb parents. Our child just was missing big chunks of math instruction. We still go because it’s good solid enrichment but she’s doing well at DCI. If your kid is doing well at lamb, good for you! My kid also did well on the NWEA for a long time until she was at upper el. Her teacher blamed disinterest in the test and hormones for her poor performance. Nope- it was poor instruction. I don’t know if it’s different for other schools. My biggest beef with lamb was the constant gossip and drama around basic things like aftercare. Might be different now but it was a serious stressor on me especially as a single mom.

I’m the PP above with strong math kid and my kid is not at LAMB. I can’t comment on LAMB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people seem to agree - MV (both campuses) has stabilized, right?

NBA was never unstable. Yes there was some turnover right after the pandemic with teachers, but that was everywhere.

It just got associated with all the drama at MVP, of which none was at MV8

I don't think MV8 was unstable, it was just new and that makes people cautious. And since it is part of MV and ultimately operated by the same top leadership, any concerns about MVP are going to cause concern about MV8. You can't operate one school that's a hot mess and not raise that question about other sites.

MVP is I guess "stable" in the sense that it's not getting worse, but its stats are still not good compared to MV8 and DCB. Looking at DC School Report Card compare function.

Kudos to MV in making these available at all, even though it took a bit of digging to find them.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1xQlHUZZ72SP1q8MCWw7lNLCBEAUhp3LRn35jh1DTxSM/edit?slide=id.g37ece349db3_0_388#slide=id.g37ece349db3_0_388

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_8ROfPu5SjwOtC_qTSbHz9RC1RoIgTTr/view -- this one has a lot of interesting information about budget cuts and layoffs at MV in the later slides.

PP here yes it was the same ED at the top but each school has their own principal and leadership team and ran their own campus.

Some people may not have liked the old ED because of some things but to be fair, she did an amazing job when it came to the business and management side of the organization. The school was also very transparent at the board meetings and parents were always notified about them and could zoom in. Slides made public, etc..such as above.

She did have the best interest of the school and her organizational skills and understanding the big picture was top notch. I say this as someone who is in a leadership position and understand what it takes to run things. I am also a parent so saw both sides of the picture. Sure I did not agree with some decisions but it doesn’t diminish all the accomplishments she had growing the school from a basement to where it is today.

Anyway, the new ED is a parent with kids at the school and looks promising. Only time will tell.

So what accounts for the low test scores at MVP? And "some people may not have liked" the old ED doesn't really explain why parents felt the need to picket on the sidewalk outside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people seem to agree - MV (both campuses) has stabilized, right?

NBA was never unstable. Yes there was some turnover right after the pandemic with teachers, but that was everywhere.

It just got associated with all the drama at MVP, of which none was at MV8

I don't think MV8 was unstable, it was just new and that makes people cautious. And since it is part of MV and ultimately operated by the same top leadership, any concerns about MVP are going to cause concern about MV8. You can't operate one school that's a hot mess and not raise that question about other sites.

MVP is I guess "stable" in the sense that it's not getting worse, but its stats are still not good compared to MV8 and DCB. Looking at DC School Report Card compare function.

Kudos to MV in making these available at all, even though it took a bit of digging to find them.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1xQlHUZZ72SP1q8MCWw7lNLCBEAUhp3LRn35jh1DTxSM/edit?slide=id.g37ece349db3_0_388#slide=id.g37ece349db3_0_388

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_8ROfPu5SjwOtC_qTSbHz9RC1RoIgTTr/view -- this one has a lot of interesting information about budget cuts and layoffs at MV in the later slides.

PP here yes it was the same ED at the top but each school has their own principal and leadership team and ran their own campus.

Some people may not have liked the old ED because of some things but to be fair, she did an amazing job when it came to the business and management side of the organization. The school was also very transparent at the board meetings and parents were always notified about them and could zoom in. Slides made public, etc..such as above.

She did have the best interest of the school and her organizational skills and understanding the big picture was top notch. I say this as someone who is in a leadership position and understand what it takes to run things. I am also a parent so saw both sides of the picture. Sure I did not agree with some decisions but it doesn’t diminish all the accomplishments she had growing the school from a basement to where it is today.

Anyway, the new ED is a parent with kids at the school and looks promising. Only time will tell.

So what accounts for the low test scores at MVP? And "some people may not have liked" the old ED doesn't really explain why parents felt the need to picket on the sidewalk outside.

I wasn’t at MVP so can’t comment specifically but it’s obvious that if there is a big difference in test scores that the 2 campuses are not run exactly alike or function alike. If I had to guess, high turnover in kids and staff. If you have kids leaving and new kids coming in then it is difficult to be consistent. P st also has a little higher at risk kids so that could be another factor.

As to the picket, who knows. You will only know if you ask the parents. Also that was only one grade specifically BTW, not the whole school. All I can say is there were nine of those issues at MV8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for all the feedback. Of course I agree with all the points about the commute to DCB or LAMB being probably untenable. And points taken re: Montessori at LAMB. But as a follow up, what I want to know is - why is DCB, at least (and possibly LAMB) viewed as “better”/ more sought after than MV? What makes it better?

LAMB is the oldest immersion charter program in the city. It's a damn near perfect program for kids until they are in third grade or so, when the weaknesses of the montessori approach and the school become more apparent. The academics are not as strong as they should be and the school is pretty hostile to standardized testing. But your child will become fluent in Spanish even if the parents can't speak a word. The montessori approach allows kids a lot of freedom and while some use it to avoid math and other things they don't like, it also allows kids to work far ahead of grade level if they choose. There's no teaching down to the lowest common denominator. It is a lovely, lovely community. Behavioral issues are nonexistent. The building is gorgeous and the outdoor space is great.

This is completely untrue. I don't mean to suggest that LAMB has worse behavioral issues than anywhere else and, comparatively, it probably does well because it has favorable demographics. BUT there are DEFINITELY behavioral issues, particularly in Upper EL. My kid's class had a ripped from a TV special bully in it that the school did nothing about; my kid wasn't a target, but spoke in so much detail about what was happening that I reached out to the victim parents. They knew and were engaged with the school and... nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people seem to agree - MV (both campuses) has stabilized, right?

NBA was never unstable. Yes there was some turnover right after the pandemic with teachers, but that was everywhere.

It just got associated with all the drama at MVP, of which none was at MV8

I don't think MV8 was unstable, it was just new and that makes people cautious. And since it is part of MV and ultimately operated by the same top leadership, any concerns about MVP are going to cause concern about MV8. You can't operate one school that's a hot mess and not raise that question about other sites.

MVP is I guess "stable" in the sense that it's not getting worse, but its stats are still not good compared to MV8 and DCB. Looking at DC School Report Card compare function.

Kudos to MV in making these available at all, even though it took a bit of digging to find them.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1xQlHUZZ72SP1q8MCWw7lNLCBEAUhp3LRn35jh1DTxSM/edit?slide=id.g37ece349db3_0_388#slide=id.g37ece349db3_0_388

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_8ROfPu5SjwOtC_qTSbHz9RC1RoIgTTr/view -- this one has a lot of interesting information about budget cuts and layoffs at MV in the later slides.

PP here yes it was the same ED at the top but each school has their own principal and leadership team and ran their own campus.

Some people may not have liked the old ED because of some things but to be fair, she did an amazing job when it came to the business and management side of the organization. The school was also very transparent at the board meetings and parents were always notified about them and could zoom in. Slides made public, etc..such as above.

She did have the best interest of the school and her organizational skills and understanding the big picture was top notch. I say this as someone who is in a leadership position and understand what it takes to run things. I am also a parent so saw both sides of the picture. Sure I did not agree with some decisions but it doesn’t diminish all the accomplishments she had growing the school from a basement to where it is today.

Anyway, the new ED is a parent with kids at the school and looks promising. Only time will tell.

So what accounts for the low test scores at MVP? And "some people may not have liked" the old ED doesn't really explain why parents felt the need to picket on the sidewalk outside.

I wasn’t at MVP so can’t comment specifically but it’s obvious that if there is a big difference in test scores that the 2 campuses are not run exactly alike or function alike. If I had to guess, high turnover in kids and staff. If you have kids leaving and new kids coming in then it is difficult to be consistent. P st also has a little higher at risk kids so that could be another factor.

As to the picket, who knows. You will only know if you ask the parents. Also that was only one grade specifically BTW, not the whole school. All I can say is there were nine of those issues at MV8.

The same grade of kids lost teachers mid-year two different years and basically got no replacement. Between that and COVID, one year at the school was basically missing 3 years of instruction. Shockingly, standardized test scores were bad and parents got mad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people seem to agree - MV (both campuses) has stabilized, right?

NBA was never unstable. Yes there was some turnover right after the pandemic with teachers, but that was everywhere.

It just got associated with all the drama at MVP, of which none was at MV8

I don't think MV8 was unstable, it was just new and that makes people cautious. And since it is part of MV and ultimately operated by the same top leadership, any concerns about MVP are going to cause concern about MV8. You can't operate one school that's a hot mess and not raise that question about other sites.

MVP is I guess "stable" in the sense that it's not getting worse, but its stats are still not good compared to MV8 and DCB. Looking at DC School Report Card compare function.

Kudos to MV in making these available at all, even though it took a bit of digging to find them.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1xQlHUZZ72SP1q8MCWw7lNLCBEAUhp3LRn35jh1DTxSM/edit?slide=id.g37ece349db3_0_388#slide=id.g37ece349db3_0_388

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_8ROfPu5SjwOtC_qTSbHz9RC1RoIgTTr/view -- this one has a lot of interesting information about budget cuts and layoffs at MV in the later slides.

PP here yes it was the same ED at the top but each school has their own principal and leadership team and ran their own campus.

Some people may not have liked the old ED because of some things but to be fair, she did an amazing job when it came to the business and management side of the organization. The school was also very transparent at the board meetings and parents were always notified about them and could zoom in. Slides made public, etc..such as above.

She did have the best interest of the school and her organizational skills and understanding the big picture was top notch. I say this as someone who is in a leadership position and understand what it takes to run things. I am also a parent so saw both sides of the picture. Sure I did not agree with some decisions but it doesn’t diminish all the accomplishments she had growing the school from a basement to where it is today.

Anyway, the new ED is a parent with kids at the school and looks promising. Only time will tell.

So what accounts for the low test scores at MVP? And "some people may not have liked" the old ED doesn't really explain why parents felt the need to picket on the sidewalk outside.

I wasn’t at MVP so can’t comment specifically but it’s obvious that if there is a big difference in test scores that the 2 campuses are not run exactly alike or function alike. If I had to guess, high turnover in kids and staff. If you have kids leaving and new kids coming in then it is difficult to be consistent. P st also has a little higher at risk kids so that could be another factor.

As to the picket, who knows. You will only know if you ask the parents. Also that was only one grade specifically BTW, not the whole school. All I can say is there were nine of those issues at MV8.

The same grade of kids lost teachers mid-year two different years and basically got no replacement. Between that and COVID, one year at the school was basically missing 3 years of instruction. Shockingly, standardized test scores were bad and parents got mad.

Isn't that the kind of thing that reflects negatively on the leadership? I get that the ED is not there to micromanage, but *3 years* of instruction is a lot and ultimately where does the buck stop?

[Anonymous]

From a test scores perspective, MV8 and MVP Are just not apples to apples. MV8 has half the at risk % of MVP and at risk % is a major driver of overall test numbers. I was very interested to find that white kids do significantly better at MVP than MV8 and Hispanic kids do slightly better at MV8. I strongly recommend looking at empowerk12 dashboards to get a better comparison.

OP, if you are committed to Spanish immersion and prefer charter, there is a very good chance you will be a MV parent. Stokes, LAMB, and DCB have long waitlists and MVP cleared their pk3 wait-list last year. But don't overlook convenient DCPS schools. They arguably have better immersion programs, lots of families are OOB, and DCPS is working on an immersion MS solution for CH. A lot can change in the time it takes a three year old to get to middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From a test scores perspective, MV8 and MVP Are just not apples to apples. MV8 has half the at risk % of MVP and at risk % is a major driver of overall test numbers. I was very interested to find that white kids do significantly better at MVP than MV8 and Hispanic kids do slightly better at MV8. I strongly recommend looking at empowerk12 dashboards to get a better comparison.

OP, if you are committed to Spanish immersion and prefer charter, there is a very good chance you will be a MV parent. Stokes, LAMB, and DCB have long waitlists and MVP cleared their pk3 wait-list last year. But don't overlook convenient DCPS schools. They arguably have better immersion programs, lots of families are OOB, and DCPS is working on an immersion MS solution for CH. A lot can change in the time it takes a three year old to get to middle school.

Indeed, MVP clears its waitlist despite being located near Cleveland Elementary, and not terribly far from DCPS dual language schools Bruce-Monroe and Marie Reed and Oyster.