Non-English Speaking Students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any other schools having Level 1 and Level 2 WIDA students in the general education classroom? For context, these students have little to no English skills (cannot carry on a basic conversation in English).

In years prior, these students were in sheltered English classes that were designed to help them learn English. Now, they are being lumped into the general ed. classroom (or at least at my school).

Is this a school directed thing or a mandate from MCPS? As a teacher, what we are being asked to do is impossible and is setting these students up for failure.

Thanks for asking this. We have a shitload of Asian kids in our cluster (‘W’ schools) who don’t speak English - they come in Kindergarten through 2nd. I asked my kid how do they do their work and he said the other kids have to help them. It slows everyone down.

At this level (K-2) and with kids from educated household it’ll be a non issue about 6-12 months after they start.
Slowing kids down in kindergarten is a non issue too.

This is vastly different.

No, you Asian parents don’t get a pass. Your kid is sitting next to my kid and doesn’t understand a single word! So the teacher has to wait for these kids to catch up and it slows everything down. So, no, it is not “vastly different.” We have FOUR students in my kid’s class like this.

A whole FOUR students - wow! Good luck to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any other schools having Level 1 and Level 2 WIDA students in the general education classroom? For context, these students have little to no English skills (cannot carry on a basic conversation in English).

In years prior, these students were in sheltered English classes that were designed to help them learn English. Now, they are being lumped into the general ed. classroom (or at least at my school).

Is this a school directed thing or a mandate from MCPS? As a teacher, what we are being asked to do is impossible and is setting these students up for failure.

Thanks for asking this. We have a shitload of Asian kids in our cluster (‘W’ schools) who don’t speak English - they come in Kindergarten through 2nd. I asked my kid how do they do their work and he said the other kids have to help them. It slows everyone down.

At this level (K-2) and with kids from educated household it’ll be a non issue about 6-12 months after they start.
Slowing kids down in kindergarten is a non issue too.

This is vastly different.

No, you Asian parents don’t get a pass. Your kid is sitting next to my kid and doesn’t understand a single word! So the teacher has to wait for these kids to catch up and it slows everything down. So, no, it is not “vastly different.” We have FOUR students in my kid’s class like this.

I am not Asian and my kid is a native speaker.
You can ask your kid not to be paired with the non English speaking students.
I am neither progressive nor liberal but I don’t see it as a big deal at lower elementary level.

I do think it’s really hard for the teacher to manage particularly in an ES class with 30+ kids. We’ve regularly had new kids who come in not knowing how to say anything beyond “my name is”. Yes most m kids do learn English quickly but it’s a big time suck for the teacher away from other kids until they get there.

And I do feel like some diplomatic or corporate families will take postings in the USA, use it to teach their kids fluent English in our free public schools and then leave, so it’s not like these kids are even staying in the school system long term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No OP is right. Level I ESOL students used to have their own English class, often double period. This year that is gone and they are in General Ed English Classes and it is INSANE.

I do not agree with it either. Where are the basics, what are they supposed to be doing, learning to say Hello and simultaneously reading novels?

Dumbest thing Maryland has done. It is state led btw OP, not an MCPS thing from what I understand.

Thank you for clarifying. So all MCPS schools are doing this? Can we not go to the news or somebody about this? I am leaving crying every day because I feel these kids are not being set up for success

This is also happening in middle schools. Of course the kids are not 'being set up for success'. It's all performative to show how there is no exclusion/differentiation (both taboo in MCPS).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah and then I have a kid who actually goes to Wheaton and is very loaded up on other AP classes so doesn't want to take AP Lang (or Lit, whatever it is in 11th grade). So 11th grade honors English is basically a non-class for my kid, but I also feel sorry for the teachers and those EML students.

I actually get frustrated with my kid complaining about being bored and sometimes not turning in work (another topic) because I understand the teacher's dilemma. However, it is a bad situation, hard to really service anyone well in the current model. There should be regular English, honors English, and an AP choice.

Not the teacher's fault though!!

At this point I just feel bad for “regular” kids who go to Wheaton. It’s impossible or hard to have all APs and anything below is an abomination.
It happens a lot to kids who are decently smart and educated but are not at an advanced level program at a low ranked school. That’s why it’s not a good idea to have your kid at such school unless they can handle all the highest level classes.

It is not just Wheaton. Many other MCPS highschools have the same issue - Einstein, Northwood, Blair (non-magnet), Gaithersburg, etc

Exactly. This is an issue all over the county in middle schools and high schools. Montgomery County has had an influx of people from all over the world in the past decade. This has a direct impact on our school system.

[Anonymous]

HS teacher here: they most definitely are putting more than just 3-4 kids who can’t speak English in the “honors for all” classes. It hurts everyone. Even with co teachers, it’s impossible to differentiate enough to make the curriculum accessible to students on a 1st grade reading level and the kids who are on grade level but didn’t want to take AP lit. We have some classes with three teachers, and it’s still not enough because a lot of these kids need someone one on one to work with them all class to ensure they can access the curriculum. It’s very painful to see some of these kids struggling so much and just giving up because the texts just aren’t even close to appropriate for their English skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any other schools having Level 1 and Level 2 WIDA students in the general education classroom? For context, these students have little to no English skills (cannot carry on a basic conversation in English).

In years prior, these students were in sheltered English classes that were designed to help them learn English. Now, they are being lumped into the general ed. classroom (or at least at my school).

Is this a school directed thing or a mandate from MCPS? As a teacher, what we are being asked to do is impossible and is setting these students up for failure.

Thanks for asking this. We have a shitload of Asian kids in our cluster (‘W’ schools) who don’t speak English - they come in Kindergarten through 2nd. I asked my kid how do they do their work and he said the other kids have to help them. It slows everyone down.

At this level (K-2) and with kids from educated household it’ll be a non issue about 6-12 months after they start.
Slowing kids down in kindergarten is a non issue too.

This is vastly different.

No, you Asian parents don’t get a pass. Your kid is sitting next to my kid and doesn’t understand a single word! So the teacher has to wait for these kids to catch up and it slows everything down. So, no, it is not “vastly different.” We have FOUR students in my kid’s class like this.

I am not Asian and my kid is a native speaker.
You can ask your kid not to be paired with the non English speaking students.
I am neither progressive nor liberal but I don’t see it as a big deal at lower elementary level.

I do think it’s really hard for the teacher to manage particularly in an ES class with 30+ kids. We’ve regularly had new kids who come in not knowing how to say anything beyond “my name is”. Yes most m kids do learn English quickly but it’s a big time suck for the teacher away from other kids until they get there.

And I do feel like some diplomatic or corporate families will take postings in the USA, use it to teach their kids fluent English in our free public schools and then leave, so it’s not like these kids are even staying in the school system long term.

Yes but where are these kids supposed to be? Other countries have relatively affordable private schools for international kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah and then I have a kid who actually goes to Wheaton and is very loaded up on other AP classes so doesn't want to take AP Lang (or Lit, whatever it is in 11th grade). So 11th grade honors English is basically a non-class for my kid, but I also feel sorry for the teachers and those EML students.

I actually get frustrated with my kid complaining about being bored and sometimes not turning in work (another topic) because I understand the teacher's dilemma. However, it is a bad situation, hard to really service anyone well in the current model. There should be regular English, honors English, and an AP choice.

Not the teacher's fault though!!

At this point I just feel bad for “regular” kids who go to Wheaton. It’s impossible or hard to have all APs and anything below is an abomination.
It happens a lot to kids who are decently smart and educated but are not at an advanced level program at a low ranked school. That’s why it’s not a good idea to have your kid at such school unless they can handle all the highest level classes.

It is not just Wheaton. Many other MCPS highschools have the same issue - Einstein, Northwood, Blair (non-magnet), Gaithersburg, etc

Exactly. This is an issue all over the county in middle schools and high schools. Montgomery County has had an influx of people from all over the world in the past decade. This has a direct impact on our school system.

I hope the stream dries up in the next 4 years but as a mom whose child isn’t in many higher level classes I feel worried. We are currently in another district but also very progressive and it may well be the case here too.

[Anonymous]

They need to bring the sheltered classes back. I wonder why they were removed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any other schools having Level 1 and Level 2 WIDA students in the general education classroom? For context, these students have little to no English skills (cannot carry on a basic conversation in English).

In years prior, these students were in sheltered English classes that were designed to help them learn English. Now, they are being lumped into the general ed. classroom (or at least at my school).

Is this a school directed thing or a mandate from MCPS? As a teacher, what we are being asked to do is impossible and is setting these students up for failure.

Thanks for asking this. We have a shitload of Asian kids in our cluster (‘W’ schools) who don’t speak English - they come in Kindergarten through 2nd. I asked my kid how do they do their work and he said the other kids have to help them. It slows everyone down.

At this level (K-2) and with kids from educated household it’ll be a non issue about 6-12 months after they start.
Slowing kids down in kindergarten is a non issue too.

This is vastly different.

No, you Asian parents don’t get a pass. Your kid is sitting next to my kid and doesn’t understand a single word! So the teacher has to wait for these kids to catch up and it slows everything down. So, no, it is not “vastly different.” We have FOUR students in my kid’s class like this.

I am not Asian and my kid is a native speaker.
You can ask your kid not to be paired with the non English speaking students.
I am neither progressive nor liberal but I don’t see it as a big deal at lower elementary level.

I do think it’s really hard for the teacher to manage particularly in an ES class with 30+ kids. We’ve regularly had new kids who come in not knowing how to say anything beyond “my name is”. Yes most m kids do learn English quickly but it’s a big time suck for the teacher away from other kids until they get there.

And I do feel like some diplomatic or corporate families will take postings in the USA, use it to teach their kids fluent English in our free public schools and then leave, so it’s not like these kids are even staying in the school system long term.

Yes but where are these kids supposed to be? Other countries have relatively affordable private schools for international kids

Not sure what "other countries" you're referring to--countries are a pretty diverse bunch, but my family has been expats abroad with kids 2x, and each time the employer paid $30-40k per kid per year to an int'l school. Enrolling our kids in local public schools was not an option open to foreigners in either country, although it is possible in others.

There is a lot of evidence that free public school for all kids in America regardless of citizenship status is one of the major drivers of social mobility, and I think it is important for kids who will make their life in America, but it does annoy me when relatively high income expats deposit their non-English speaking kids in already overcrowded MCPS classrooms for 2 years as some sort of English immersion cram school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah and then I have a kid who actually goes to Wheaton and is very loaded up on other AP classes so doesn't want to take AP Lang (or Lit, whatever it is in 11th grade). So 11th grade honors English is basically a non-class for my kid, but I also feel sorry for the teachers and those EML students.

I actually get frustrated with my kid complaining about being bored and sometimes not turning in work (another topic) because I understand the teacher's dilemma. However, it is a bad situation, hard to really service anyone well in the current model. There should be regular English, honors English, and an AP choice.

Not the teacher's fault though!!

At this point I just feel bad for “regular” kids who go to Wheaton. It’s impossible or hard to have all APs and anything below is an abomination.
It happens a lot to kids who are decently smart and educated but are not at an advanced level program at a low ranked school. That’s why it’s not a good idea to have your kid at such school unless they can handle all the highest level classes.

It is not just Wheaton. Many other MCPS highschools have the same issue - Einstein, Northwood, Blair (non-magnet), Gaithersburg, etc

Exactly. This is an issue all over the county in middle schools and high schools. Montgomery County has had an influx of people from all over the world in the past decade. This has a direct impact on our school system.

I hope the stream dries up in the next 4 years but as a mom whose child isn’t in many higher level classes I feel worried. We are currently in another district but also very progressive and it may well be the case here too.

Our MS doesn't even offer a 'higher level' English class. It's all Advanced English, even for the students who are new to the country and can't speak English. Definitely a challenge for the teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No OP is right. Level I ESOL students used to have their own English class, often double period. This year that is gone and they are in General Ed English Classes and it is INSANE.

I do not agree with it either. Where are the basics, what are they supposed to be doing, learning to say Hello and simultaneously reading novels?

Dumbest thing Maryland has done. It is state led btw OP, not an MCPS thing from what I understand.

This is at the high school and middle school levels? Are the schools having a second teacher that is ESOL certified circulate? Is that the system?

High school level. And yes, there is a second teacher circulating. But in a school like Wheaton with a very high ESOL population you have like 15 kids who don’t know English in one class. That’s impossible

Yeah, that sounds like 2 different classes in 1 classroom. Why not just… put the different classes in different rooms? Insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No OP is right. Level I ESOL students used to have their own English class, often double period. This year that is gone and they are in General Ed English Classes and it is INSANE.

I do not agree with it either. Where are the basics, what are they supposed to be doing, learning to say Hello and simultaneously reading novels?

Dumbest thing Maryland has done. It is state led btw OP, not an MCPS thing from what I understand.

This is at the high school and middle school levels? Are the schools having a second teacher that is ESOL certified circulate? Is that the system?

High school level. And yes, there is a second teacher circulating. But in a school like Wheaton with a very high ESOL population you have like 15 kids who don’t know English in one class. That’s impossible

Yeah, that sounds like 2 different classes in 1 classroom. Why not just… put the different classes in different rooms? Insane.

Because that doesn't reflect well on the 'stats' for the schools. And it's racist.

[Anonymous]

As a teacher I was told that we are forbidden to speak Spanish. I don't know if this was the real rule or just more admin manipulation because my admin was a gym teacher who only spoke English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No OP is right. Level I ESOL students used to have their own English class, often double period. This year that is gone and they are in General Ed English Classes and it is INSANE.

I do not agree with it either. Where are the basics, what are they supposed to be doing, learning to say Hello and simultaneously reading novels?

Dumbest thing Maryland has done. It is state led btw OP, not an MCPS thing from what I understand.

This is at the high school and middle school levels? Are the schools having a second teacher that is ESOL certified circulate? Is that the system?

High school level. And yes, there is a second teacher circulating. But in a school like Wheaton with a very high ESOL population you have like 15 kids who don’t know English in one class. That’s impossible

Yeah, that sounds like 2 different classes in 1 classroom. Why not just… put the different classes in different rooms? Insane.

That’s what they did until this year. MCPS, whoever made this switch needs to go back to the damn drawing board. Stop asking teachers to do more without more compensation.