Kids without tutors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is surrounded by peers and classmates who have had tutors since literally 3rd/4th grade. Now a sophomore, literally everyone has multiple tutors, neighbors would openly talk about having to drop off their sophomore at the tutor’s house b/c kid has a paper due next day, or taking SAT prep classes every Sat, things like that. It literally feels like DC is the only one with no tutor, and I already see group texts among parents asking around for best tutor to help with college essays.

Have we done our DC a disservice not to provide him with a tutor, or will he somehow benefit from it long term to do it all on his own? Not trying to be a martyr or to humble brag; we wanted him to develop a sense of pride that he earned his own accomplishments. He is great with seeking help from teachers at school when he needs help, but he has never done a paper, project, essay anything with a ghost writer or even editor. Are we just naive and doing him a disservice with college and other opportunities?

No one cares how you got there, just that you are there. He should not hold any special stigma for asking for help.

In fact, asking for help is a skill. Knowing when and how to use the support available is essential to success in every aspect of life. "I did it all by myself" is not always a badge of honor, which is why so many schools are incorporating peer to peer reviews, group work, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No tutoring here—and definitely no shaming. A lot of students who have had extensive tutoring throughout middle and high school do not automatically develop strong study skills or independent learning habits once they get to college. My kid is a STEM major and tutors both through the college and privately. He sees firsthand how many students, including those who were heavily supported with tutoring for classes, SATs, and APs, still struggle once they are on their own.

The kids without using tutors are far stronger than those do. This is not so obvious in high school. Once they begin college, a lot of them will struggle now that the whole support system is not there to babysit them. This is particularly problematic with STEM students who were pampered throughout the high school. Many end up changing majors to humanities or stem adjacent majors. It's not about pride or shame. The sooner your kid learnt how to challenge herself, the better the outcome in the colleges.

Wrong. Silly and wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought you only got a tutor if you couldn’t get good grades on your own. Is this no longer the case?

This is no longer the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC is surrounded by peers and classmates who have had tutors since literally 3rd/4th grade. Now a sophomore, literally everyone has multiple tutors, neighbors would openly talk about having to drop off their sophomore at the tutor’s house b/c kid has a paper due next day, or taking SAT prep classes every Sat, things like that. It literally feels like DC is the only one with no tutor, and I already see group texts among parents asking around for best tutor to help with college essays.

Have we done our DC a disservice not to provide him with a tutor, or will he somehow benefit from it long term to do it all on his own? Not trying to be a martyr or to humble brag; we wanted him to develop a sense of pride that he earned his own accomplishments. He is great with seeking help from teachers at school when he needs help, but he has never done a paper, project, essay anything with a ghost writer or even editor. Are we just naive and doing him a disservice with college and other opportunities?

Yes probably.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We use it based on teachers. My DS took Spanish 5 and got 100% on every single assignment. I doubt this given his track record in past years. So we hired the tutor knowing that when he goes to AP Spanish, with the department head teaching, it will be a wake-up call.

I think it's fair to have a tutor if your child is in public school. Resources are skimpy and not all public school teachers, as hard as they try and even if they are superb, are able to help every student with proper feedbacks.

+1.

To the people that are trying to stigmatize tutoring: shame on you. I only care if the kid learned something. Does it matter how?

I really hate the attitude: my kid is so smart he doesn't need help and finds every class he took easy.

Why? It’s the truth. Many kids are really smart and don’t need any help. You seriously have a problem with that statement?

My son has a learning disability and had tutors off and on. My daughter’s not too bright friends have tutors to help pass their classes. My daughter does fine at her college level classes. I’m not going to get a tutor to try and push her into AP classes. She’s right where she should be ability wise.

What happens to these kids who have tutors with every single class and a tutor editing every single paper?

Sorry, but this really rubs me the wrong way. My kids and their friends have tutors to stay ahead on their accelerated tracks. Not because they couldn't hack it without tutors. But to make sure it's an easy A and stress-free.

I think this thread is a confrontation of two cultures. One that views tutoring as beneficial for intellectual rigor, addressing certain notions not taught in schools, and ensuring that kids do well in the most advanced classes; and one that cannot let go of the outdated notion that tutoring is somehow shameful, only for the kids who struggle and won't come to anything, and that if you use it to get ahead, you're somehow cheating and have poor work ethic.

Tutoring is WORK. My kids build work ethic when they do their homework the tutor gives them and when they attend their sessions. The tutors never do the school homework FOR them! That would defeat the entire purpose of the instruction! I used to tutor them myself, when they were little. But now they're in high school, and my derivatives are rusty, I prefer to pay someone who does calculus every day

Many kids who struggle or have learning disablities aren't going to admit it.

DP: So what? What is your point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We use it based on teachers. My DS took Spanish 5 and got 100% on every single assignment. I doubt this given his track record in past years. So we hired the tutor knowing that when he goes to AP Spanish, with the department head teaching, it will be a wake-up call.

I think it's fair to have a tutor if your child is in public school. Resources are skimpy and not all public school teachers, as hard as they try and even if they are superb, are able to help every student with proper feedbacks.

+1.

To the people that are trying to stigmatize tutoring: shame on you. I only care if the kid learned something. Does it matter how?

I really hate the attitude: my kid is so smart he doesn't need help and finds every class he took easy.

Why? It’s the truth. Many kids are really smart and don’t need any help. You seriously have a problem with that statement?

My son has a learning disability and had tutors off and on. My daughter’s not too bright friends have tutors to help pass their classes. My daughter does fine at her college level classes. I’m not going to get a tutor to try and push her into AP classes. She’s right where she should be ability wise.

What happens to these kids who have tutors with every single class and a tutor editing every single paper?

Sorry, but this really rubs me the wrong way. My kids and their friends have tutors to stay ahead on their accelerated tracks. Not because they couldn't hack it without tutors. But to make sure it's an easy A and stress-free.

I think this thread is a confrontation of two cultures. One that views tutoring as beneficial for intellectual rigor, addressing certain notions not taught in schools, and ensuring that kids do well in the most advanced classes; and one that cannot let go of the outdated notion that tutoring is somehow shameful, only for the kids who struggle and won't come to anything, and that if you use it to get ahead, you're somehow cheating and have poor work ethic.

Tutoring is WORK. My kids build work ethic when they do their homework the tutor gives them and when they attend their sessions. The tutors never do the school homework FOR them! That would defeat the entire purpose of the instruction! I used to tutor them myself, when they were little. But now they're in high school, and my derivatives are rusty, I prefer to pay someone who does calculus every day

Many kids who struggle or have learning disablities aren't going to admit it.

And? Their parents do. We talk all the time. In fact, there's a entire forum on DCUM called Special Needs Forum, where we discuss these things. My son with dyscalculia (disability in math) and ADHD benefited tremendously from tutoring. It was worth ever penny. The increased grades and test scores got him substantial merit aid at a school that's top ten for his major. In addition to his math tutoring, he had test prep as well. He went from a 29 to a 35 on his ACT, by dint of really hard work, and ensured some 5s on his AP exams.

The merit aid is worth 8 times what I invested in the tutoring. But more importantly, my son regained some confidence in his abilities, at a challenging time in his life, and that's priceless.

All you posters sneering about tutors really need to broaden your minds.

[Anonymous]

I feel like there's just one troll poster who keeps coming back and insulting people about tutoring. Latest post denigrates kids with special needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is surrounded by peers and classmates who have had tutors since literally 3rd/4th grade. Now a sophomore, literally everyone has multiple tutors, neighbors would openly talk about having to drop off their sophomore at the tutor’s house b/c kid has a paper due next day, or taking SAT prep classes every Sat, things like that. It literally feels like DC is the only one with no tutor, and I already see group texts among parents asking around for best tutor to help with college essays.

Have we done our DC a disservice not to provide him with a tutor, or will he somehow benefit from it long term to do it all on his own? Not trying to be a martyr or to humble brag; we wanted him to develop a sense of pride that he earned his own accomplishments. He is great with seeking help from teachers at school when he needs help, but he has never done a paper, project, essay anything with a ghost writer or even editor. Are we just naive and doing him a disservice with college and other opportunities?

Yes probably.

There are plenty of great colleges out there, and your son will be successful with the skills that he has developed. His ability to take charge of his education will serve him well, especially if he ends up at a large public university.

The universities that he wants to apply to is a more important concern. What does he need to do to get accepted by one or more of them? Are there courses he should take during the rest of his time in high school? If he finds himself in a situation where he needs to improve his grades for some of these courses, then a tutor would be appropriate. What sort of ECs does he have, and plans to have for the remainder of his time? How does he intend to present himself on his applications?

A realistic understanding of where he is, and where he can go, will go along way towards determining whether he needs tutors and how frequently. My son only had one tutor for a poorly taught AP calculus class and got admitted to 4 T30-50 schools, one of them with an admission rate less than 10% and another with an admission rate less than 15%, but given that you are describing a high school setting where the parents and students have greater ambitions, you may not find this reassuring.

[Anonymous]

He will do better in college now that he has learned how to deal without constant tutoring.

[Anonymous]

You could be short changing your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He will do better in college now that he has learned how to deal without constant tutoring.

You keep repeating that but it's just not true. A, kids who were tutored previously do well in college by themselves, like my kid, and B, if some students struggle, all colleges have support centers.

You really need to stop trolling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC is surrounded by peers and classmates who have had tutors since literally 3rd/4th grade. Now a sophomore, literally everyone has multiple tutors, neighbors would openly talk about having to drop off their sophomore at the tutor’s house b/c kid has a paper due next day, or taking SAT prep classes every Sat, things like that. It literally feels like DC is the only one with no tutor, and I already see group texts among parents asking around for best tutor to help with college essays.

Have we done our DC a disservice not to provide him with a tutor, or will he somehow benefit from it long term to do it all on his own? Not trying to be a martyr or to humble brag; we wanted him to develop a sense of pride that he earned his own accomplishments. He is great with seeking help from teachers at school when he needs help, but he has never done a paper, project, essay anything with a ghost writer or even editor. Are we just naive and doing him a disservice with college and other opportunities?

No tutors are needed for most kids (ie no learning disabilities)! Ours had none and their other friends at the top of the high school class did not either. The ones who had them tended to be above average/maybe top quarter but not true top kids, and of course very wealthy families who yes paid for one on one tutoring many days a week. Ours went to different ivies and are killing it there, top 10-20% easily. They were blown away at the depth of talent and raw intelligence of many peers their first semester, much tougher cohort than they were used to but they also met students who crashed and burned after the first midterms and had no idea how to organize their week and study on their own.

The families we know well from the k-8 then the same top private prep school did not use tutors, instead they accepted the school's placement in math, language arts and the kids ended up at colleges they could handle (UVA, Wake, Chicago, Ivies, Stanford, W&M) Almost all the close friends they have had at college did not have tutors along the way and in fact many are surprised by the few there that had them, except for the one with dyslexia which of course is a necessary tutor from elementary through at least middle. We know families that have chosen tutors as you describe: they have had to continue them in college and kids have not launched as well--some got into colleges above their true ability and then struggled a lot (Wake, UVA, Emory, W&M, others). None got into super-elite schools but the one at Emory has been affected mentally the most having to change majors twice and take summer school to re-do low grades two summers in a row. They had mostly As in HS but it was with extensive tutors, grading that counts tests as only 40% of the total grade, the rest is participation and homework --done by tutor. Their 35 on ACT was after 6 tries, months of tutors, and double-time on the test due to anxiety. Their AP scores were all 2 and 3 and they did not submit any. Covid year was more forgiving with not submitting scores. The kid will graduate just fine but not in their original interest areas, and the repercussions on mental health have been signifciant.

You are doing your kid a favor with no tutors. They will get into a place they can thrive and they can be proud that they got their on their own, instead of the dread of realization that they are somewhere they do not belong with the majority of peers who process faster, study independently and can outperform them at every turn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We use it based on teachers. My DS took Spanish 5 and got 100% on every single assignment. I doubt this given his track record in past years. So we hired the tutor knowing that when he goes to AP Spanish, with the department head teaching, it will be a wake-up call.

I think it's fair to have a tutor if your child is in public school. Resources are skimpy and not all public school teachers, as hard as they try and even if they are superb, are able to help every student with proper feedbacks.

+1.

To the people that are trying to stigmatize tutoring: shame on you. I only care if the kid learned something. Does it matter how?

I really hate the attitude: my kid is so smart he doesn't need help and finds every class he took easy.

Why? It’s the truth. Many kids are really smart and don’t need any help. You seriously have a problem with that statement?

My son has a learning disability and had tutors off and on. My daughter’s not too bright friends have tutors to help pass their classes. My daughter does fine at her college level classes. I’m not going to get a tutor to try and push her into AP classes. She’s right where she should be ability wise.

What happens to these kids who have tutors with every single class and a tutor editing every single paper?

Sorry, but this really rubs me the wrong way. My kids and their friends have tutors to stay ahead on their accelerated tracks. Not because they couldn't hack it without tutors. But to make sure it's an easy A and stress-free.

I think this thread is a confrontation of two cultures. One that views tutoring as beneficial for intellectual rigor, addressing certain notions not taught in schools, and ensuring that kids do well in the most advanced classes; and one that cannot let go of the outdated notion that tutoring is somehow shameful, only for the kids who struggle and won't come to anything, and that if you use it to get ahead, you're somehow cheating and have poor work ethic.

Tutoring is WORK. My kids build work ethic when they do their homework the tutor gives them and when they attend their sessions. The tutors never do the school homework FOR them! That would defeat the entire purpose of the instruction! I used to tutor them myself, when they were little. But now they're in high school, and my derivatives are rusty, I prefer to pay someone who does calculus every day

Then they are not as smart as the ones who stay ahead and get all A without any tutors ever. It is a simple fact. There is zero need for tutors to stay on an accelerated track unless you do not belong there or have diagnosed learning disabilities such as dyslexia, dyscalcul. Some kids can spend less time on homework than other kids and get better grades. Other kids get tutors and spend a lot of extra time on homework and also get As. Barring a diagnosed learning disability, the latter is not as smart as the former. And I never had to tutor mine myself either. If they did not understand they asked the teacher and got help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We use it based on teachers. My DS took Spanish 5 and got 100% on every single assignment. I doubt this given his track record in past years. So we hired the tutor knowing that when he goes to AP Spanish, with the department head teaching, it will be a wake-up call.

I think it's fair to have a tutor if your child is in public school. Resources are skimpy and not all public school teachers, as hard as they try and even if they are superb, are able to help every student with proper feedbacks.

+1.

To the people that are trying to stigmatize tutoring: shame on you. I only care if the kid learned something. Does it matter how?

I really hate the attitude: my kid is so smart he doesn't need help and finds every class he took easy.

Why? It’s the truth. Many kids are really smart and don’t need any help. You seriously have a problem with that statement?

My son has a learning disability and had tutors off and on. My daughter’s not too bright friends have tutors to help pass their classes. My daughter does fine at her college level classes. I’m not going to get a tutor to try and push her into AP classes. She’s right where she should be ability wise.

What happens to these kids who have tutors with every single class and a tutor editing every single paper?

Sorry, but this really rubs me the wrong way. My kids and their friends have tutors to stay ahead on their accelerated tracks. Not because they couldn't hack it without tutors. But to make sure it's an easy A and stress-free.

I think this thread is a confrontation of two cultures. One that views tutoring as beneficial for intellectual rigor, addressing certain notions not taught in schools, and ensuring that kids do well in the most advanced classes; and one that cannot let go of the outdated notion that tutoring is somehow shameful, only for the kids who struggle and won't come to anything, and that if you use it to get ahead, you're somehow cheating and have poor work ethic.

Tutoring is WORK. My kids build work ethic when they do their homework the tutor gives them and when they attend their sessions. The tutors never do the school homework FOR them! That would defeat the entire purpose of the instruction! I used to tutor them myself, when they were little. But now they're in high school, and my derivatives are rusty, I prefer to pay someone who does calculus every day

Then they are not as smart as the ones who stay ahead and get all A without any tutors ever. It is a simple fact. There is zero need for tutors to stay on an accelerated track unless you do not belong there or have diagnosed learning disabilities such as dyslexia, dyscalcul. Some kids can spend less time on homework than other kids and get better grades. Other kids get tutors and spend a lot of extra time on homework and also get As. Barring a diagnosed learning disability, the latter is not as smart as the former. And I never had to tutor mine myself either. If they did not understand they asked the teacher and got help.

You don't know what you're talking about. My kid has a math tutor this summer. She will leave high school with Calculus 3. She took AP Calc BC in 10th.

She likes math. If she had no tutor, she'd do fine, but this is better. None of it is necessary for her grades, her college admissions, etc. It's to stay busy working her brain on something that's interesting.

So again. Don't talk about what you quite literally cannot grasp: that some of us get tutors because we appreciate more learning. This isn't about preventing a crash and burn. It's about the joy of learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. Stop equating tutoring to cheating.
Some may use them as homework helpers, but my kids certainly don't.

2. Tutoring is statistically a measure of wealth. In my wealthy neighborhood, nearly every child has a tutor at some point, for remedial purposes, or to get ahead and stay ahead, regardless of whether they attend private or public school. It's another extra-curricular, like sports or music. In Korea and Japan, tutoring is formalized as prep or cram schools, and most families send their kids to these schools after their regular school throughout their K-12. This is what families need to do to stay in arms race over there. We're lucky America isn't at that point yet.

3. My kids both have high IQs. One needed remedial tutoring in math because he was 2E, or gifted with learning disabilities. He also received additional instruction and test strategy advice during the pandemic for his AP exams and ACT, because we were leery of the caliber of virtual teaching at his school. The other is straight up gifted, and has chosen a very accelerated path in high school. She just asked for math tutoring this summer to make sure she's going to get straight As in her math class next year. It's more of a perfectionism issue than a math issue, but I am happy to assuage her anxiety.

4. A tutor will not help someone who refuses to help themselves. Tutoring isn't a magic bullet. The kids who do well with tutoring have put in the work and deserve your respect. Get rid of that chip on your shoulder, that shame and guilt that makes you lash out and look down on families who invest in tutoring. If you don't think your child needs it, great! Money and time saved for other endeavors. If you think your child might benefit, don't hold back. But stop it with the attitude.

Not all wealthy people tutor. We are super wealthy, super smart, and never spent money on tutors. We went to T10/ivy ourselves and knew what it takes to succeed there. The ones who come out with confidence and success are the ones who come in with resilience, discipline, self-regulation, the ability to ask teachers for help and learn and adapt quickly to new information.
No way would we ever have done tutors UNLESS ours had had learning disabliities. Most of our friends who also are super wealthy and smart also did not use tutors for our kids. Somehow they all managed to get into the top math groups and some even got skipped ahead in foreign language or math by the school, all without tutors or weekend academic leagues and the like.

Your description of getting a tutor to "make sure" your gifted one gets all As will just feed her anxiety. That is not what experts recommend in that situation.