Kids without tutors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No tutoring here—and definitely no shaming. A lot of students who have had extensive tutoring throughout middle and high school do not automatically develop strong study skills or independent learning habits once they get to college. My kid is a STEM major and tutors both through the college and privately. He sees firsthand how many students, including those who were heavily supported with tutoring for classes, SATs, and APs, still struggle once they are on their own.

The kids without using tutors are far stronger than those do. This is not so obvious in high school. Once they begin college, a lot of them will struggle now that the whole support system is not there to babysit them. This is particularly problematic with STEM students who were pampered throughout the high school. Many end up changing majors to humanities or stem adjacent majors. It's not about pride or shame. The sooner your kid learnt how to challenge herself, the better the outcome in the colleges.

My kid and their friends winning national awards have tutors.

Right. They're winning awards because they are already tutored within one inch of their life. Aren't you exhausted snow-plowing the path for them?

Imagine how much more impressive it is when they win national awards with no outside help.

I’m sorry that you are bitterly envious of higher achievers. Don’t worry, these grapes are sour anyway. You wouldn’t want them.

I didn’t sense the previous poster was “bitterly envious”. What’s so wrong or bitter about what she said? Wouldn’t you want your child to accomplish something knowing that they worked hard and earned it fair and square? Why rob your child of genuine confidence?

I’d rather my kid be a B+ student knowing they earned that B+, than to be an A- student but wonder how much of that was the tutor, and to have a lifelong nagging feeling that my parents didn’t have confidence in me to succeed on my own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We use it based on teachers. My DS took Spanish 5 and got 100% on every single assignment. I doubt this given his track record in past years. So we hired the tutor knowing that when he goes to AP Spanish, with the department head teaching, it will be a wake-up call.

I think it's fair to have a tutor if your child is in public school. Resources are skimpy and not all public school teachers, as hard as they try and even if they are superb, are able to help every student with proper feedbacks.

+1.

To the people that are trying to stigmatize tutoring: shame on you. I only care if the kid learned something. Does it matter how?

I really hate the attitude: my kid is so smart he doesn't need help and finds every class he took easy.

Why? It’s the truth. Many kids are really smart and don’t need any help. You seriously have a problem with that statement?

My son has a learning disability and had tutors off and on. My daughter’s not too bright friends have tutors to help pass their classes. My daughter does fine at her college level classes. I’m not going to get a tutor to try and push her into AP classes. She’s right where she should be ability wise.

What happens to these kids who have tutors with every single class and a tutor editing every single paper?

Sorry, but this really rubs me the wrong way. My kids and their friends have tutors to stay ahead on their accelerated tracks. Not because they couldn't hack it without tutors. But to make sure it's an easy A and stress-free.

I think this thread is a confrontation of two cultures. One that views tutoring as beneficial for intellectual rigor, addressing certain notions not taught in schools, and ensuring that kids do well in the most advanced classes; and one that cannot let go of the outdated notion that tutoring is somehow shameful, only for the kids who struggle and won't come to anything, and that if you use it to get ahead, you're somehow cheating and have poor work ethic.

Tutoring is WORK. My kids build work ethic when they do their homework the tutor gives them and when they attend their sessions. The tutors never do the school homework FOR them! That would defeat the entire purpose of the instruction! I used to tutor them myself, when they were little. But now they're in high school, and my derivatives are rusty, I prefer to pay someone who does calculus every day

" . . . and one that cannot let go of the outdated notion that tutoring is somehow shameful, only for the kids who struggle and won't come to anything, and that if you use it to get ahead, you're somehow cheating and have poor work ethic."

I don't think anyone said this, the statement mischaracterizes the argument. I see it more as social and economic privilege, you can help your kids get to a place educationally that others can't because they lack the resources you have. But kids that rely upon tutoring to develop knowledge that other kids possess without intensive tutoring will have to be able to eventually learn without them, there is an inevitable transition.

I work as an attorney, we have no tutors.

I’m an exec. We tutor others and get tutored constantly, and have all the way through our careers. When you are an elite it’s called mentoring, not tutoring,

That’s not a good analogy.

Tutoring is not similar to executive coaching. It is more like at times you don’t understand your job and need outside help to explain it to you and show you how to do it. There are other executives your company could have hired who do not need outside help and they thought you were one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC is surrounded by peers and classmates who have had tutors since literally 3rd/4th grade. Now a sophomore, literally everyone has multiple tutors, neighbors would openly talk about having to drop off their sophomore at the tutor’s house b/c kid has a paper due next day, or taking SAT prep classes every Sat, things like that. It literally feels like DC is the only one with no tutor, and I already see group texts among parents asking around for best tutor to help with college essays.

Have we done our DC a disservice not to provide him with a tutor, or will he somehow benefit from it long term to do it all on his own? Not trying to be a martyr or to humble brag; we wanted him to develop a sense of pride that he earned his own accomplishments. He is great with seeking help from teachers at school when he needs help, but he has never done a paper, project, essay anything with a ghost writer or even editor. Are we just naive and doing him a disservice with college and other opportunities?

Not everyone has a tutor. Over their 13 years in MCPS, my kids had tutors once in a while when they struggled (math for one, Spanish for the other), that lasted a few months and then we moved on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No tutoring here—and definitely no shaming. A lot of students who have had extensive tutoring throughout middle and high school do not automatically develop strong study skills or independent learning habits once they get to college. My kid is a STEM major and tutors both through the college and privately. He sees firsthand how many students, including those who were heavily supported with tutoring for classes, SATs, and APs, still struggle once they are on their own.

The kids without using tutors are far stronger than those do. This is not so obvious in high school. Once they begin college, a lot of them will struggle now that the whole support system is not there to babysit them. This is particularly problematic with STEM students who were pampered throughout the high school. Many end up changing majors to humanities or stem adjacent majors. It's not about pride or shame. The sooner your kid learnt how to challenge herself, the better the outcome in the colleges.

My kid and their friends winning national awards have tutors.

Right. They're winning awards because they are already tutored within one inch of their life. Aren't you exhausted snow-plowing the path for them?

Imagine how much more impressive it is when they win national awards with no outside help.

I’m sorry that you are bitterly envious of higher achievers. Don’t worry, these grapes are sour anyway. You wouldn’t want them.

I didn’t sense the previous poster was “bitterly envious”. What’s so wrong or bitter about what she said? Wouldn’t you want your child to accomplish something knowing that they worked hard and earned it fair and square? Why rob your child of genuine confidence?

I’d rather my kid be a B+ student knowing they earned that B+, than to be an A- student but wonder how much of that was the tutor, and to have a lifelong nagging feeling that my parents didn’t have confidence in me to succeed on my own.

They won't wonder. Find out quickly after they enroll in that Topx college that makes their parents proud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is surrounded by peers and classmates who have had tutors since literally 3rd/4th grade. Now a sophomore, literally everyone has multiple tutors, neighbors would openly talk about having to drop off their sophomore at the tutor’s house b/c kid has a paper due next day, or taking SAT prep classes every Sat, things like that. It literally feels like DC is the only one with no tutor, and I already see group texts among parents asking around for best tutor to help with college essays.

Have we done our DC a disservice not to provide him with a tutor, or will he somehow benefit from it long term to do it all on his own? Not trying to be a martyr or to humble brag; we wanted him to develop a sense of pride that he earned his own accomplishments. He is great with seeking help from teachers at school when he needs help, but he has never done a paper, project, essay anything with a ghost writer or even editor. Are we just naive and doing him a disservice with college and other opportunities?

Not everyone has a tutor. Over their 13 years in MCPS, my kids had tutors once in a while when they struggled (math for one, Spanish for the other), that lasted a few months and then we moved on

I agree with using tutoring for this reason, if your Dc really is struggling. If your DC is not struggling but just not getting straight A and you hire a tutor, that’s more like cheating.

To me, that’s the same as if you have a hereditary or thyroid issue that causes you to be obese, you should get medical/surgical help to manage your weight so it doesn’t escalate to become a bigger health issue. But if you’re 15 pounds overweight and you’re using Ozempic to lose that weight because you don’t want to eat better or exercise, then it’s cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No tutoring here—and definitely no shaming. A lot of students who have had extensive tutoring throughout middle and high school do not automatically develop strong study skills or independent learning habits once they get to college. My kid is a STEM major and tutors both through the college and privately. He sees firsthand how many students, including those who were heavily supported with tutoring for classes, SATs, and APs, still struggle once they are on their own.

The kids without using tutors are far stronger than those do. This is not so obvious in high school. Once they begin college, a lot of them will struggle now that the whole support system is not there to babysit them. This is particularly problematic with STEM students who were pampered throughout the high school. Many end up changing majors to humanities or stem adjacent majors. It's not about pride or shame. The sooner your kid learnt how to challenge herself, the better the outcome in the colleges.

My kid and their friends winning national awards have tutors.

Right. They're winning awards because they are already tutored within one inch of their life. Aren't you exhausted snow-plowing the path for them?

Imagine how much more impressive it is when they win national awards with no outside help.

I’m sorry that you are bitterly envious of higher achievers. Don’t worry, these grapes are sour anyway. You wouldn’t want them.

I didn’t sense the previous poster was “bitterly envious”. What’s so wrong or bitter about what she said? Wouldn’t you want your child to accomplish something knowing that they worked hard and earned it fair and square? Why rob your child of genuine confidence?

I’d rather my kid be a B+ student knowing they earned that B+, than to be an A- student but wonder how much of that was the tutor, and to have a lifelong nagging feeling that my parents didn’t have confidence in me to succeed on my own.

One hundred percent yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No tutoring here—and definitely no shaming. A lot of students who have had extensive tutoring throughout middle and high school do not automatically develop strong study skills or independent learning habits once they get to college. My kid is a STEM major and tutors both through the college and privately. He sees firsthand how many students, including those who were heavily supported with tutoring for classes, SATs, and APs, still struggle once they are on their own.

The kids without using tutors are far stronger than those do. This is not so obvious in high school. Once they begin college, a lot of them will struggle now that the whole support system is not there to babysit them. This is particularly problematic with STEM students who were pampered throughout the high school. Many end up changing majors to humanities or stem adjacent majors. It's not about pride or shame. The sooner your kid learnt how to challenge herself, the better the outcome in the colleges.

My kid and their friends winning national awards have tutors.

Right. They're winning awards because they are already tutored within one inch of their life. Aren't you exhausted snow-plowing the path for them?

Imagine how much more impressive it is when they win national awards with no outside help.

I’m sorry that you are bitterly envious of higher achievers. Don’t worry, these grapes are sour anyway. You wouldn’t want them.

I didn’t sense the previous poster was “bitterly envious”. What’s so wrong or bitter about what she said? Wouldn’t you want your child to accomplish something knowing that they worked hard and earned it fair and square? Why rob your child of genuine confidence?

I’d rather my kid be a B+ student knowing they earned that B+, than to be an A- student but wonder how much of that was the tutor, and to have a lifelong nagging feeling that my parents didn’t have confidence in me to succeed on my own.

They won't wonder. Find out quickly after they enroll in that Topx college that makes their parents proud.

The opposite is true: No one loves tutoring. Kids do it because they know if they didn’t, their parents wouldn’t be proud of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect for many families tutoring is a form of social-emotional support. The parents are well-educated, but they can’t talk to their kids without stress and conflict. The kids are smart enough, but they lack the social skills to approach teachers or form study groups. Tutors avoid all those problems.

True but the tutor doesn’t solve the real issue: learn to self advocate and talk to teachers. It is a necessary life skill.

Teachers do not have the time to offer free tutoring. Study groups aren’t useful if you don’t have helpful available peers.

all teachers at local high schools have to have at least one day a week they come in a little early or are available in lunch or stay after, for walkin hours. they encourage students to meet with them and ask for help!

Not in public school. I work contracted hours and have a second job after school. I do not stay after to work for free and neither do most other teachers. I'd love to be paid for office hours and be available 1-2 days per week after school but that's not going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is surrounded by peers and classmates who have had tutors since literally 3rd/4th grade. Now a sophomore, literally everyone has multiple tutors, neighbors would openly talk about having to drop off their sophomore at the tutor’s house b/c kid has a paper due next day, or taking SAT prep classes every Sat, things like that. It literally feels like DC is the only one with no tutor, and I already see group texts among parents asking around for best tutor to help with college essays.

Have we done our DC a disservice not to provide him with a tutor, or will he somehow benefit from it long term to do it all on his own? Not trying to be a martyr or to humble brag; we wanted him to develop a sense of pride that he earned his own accomplishments. He is great with seeking help from teachers at school when he needs help, but he has never done a paper, project, essay anything with a ghost writer or even editor. Are we just naive and doing him a disservice with college and other opportunities?

Not everyone has a tutor. Over their 13 years in MCPS, my kids had tutors once in a while when they struggled (math for one, Spanish for the other), that lasted a few months and then we moved on

I agree with using tutoring for this reason, if your Dc really is struggling. If your DC is not struggling but just not getting straight A and you hire a tutor, that’s more like cheating.

To me, that’s the same as if you have a hereditary or thyroid issue that causes you to be obese, you should get medical/surgical help to manage your weight so it doesn’t escalate to become a bigger health issue. But if you’re 15 pounds overweight and you’re using Ozempic to lose that weight because you don’t want to eat better or exercise, then it’s cheating.

You’re assuming no grade inflation and good quality teaching. My kid got As in math classes one year but her teacher was out all year and there was a rotating cast of subs. We got her a tutor.

[Anonymous]

It’s an inequality problem. Command Education (an nyc college consultancy) recommends very wealthy families go to lower ranked non-competitive public high schools. Then the kids, once there, will be tutored to stand out in and out of school.

[Anonymous]

I think it is fairly common to have kids tutored in math. Not saying every kid has one at our public school, but certainly kids get one when they are struggling. On the other hand, getting tutored in French or Spanish isn't that common.

Or school is set up with an extended home room. This is when kids seek extra help but that doesn't always work out because teachers have other things to do. We also have a teacher that is the go to for math help during this time frame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No tutoring here—and definitely no shaming. A lot of students who have had extensive tutoring throughout middle and high school do not automatically develop strong study skills or independent learning habits once they get to college. My kid is a STEM major and tutors both through the college and privately. He sees firsthand how many students, including those who were heavily supported with tutoring for classes, SATs, and APs, still struggle once they are on their own.

The kids without using tutors are far stronger than those do. This is not so obvious in high school. Once they begin college, a lot of them will struggle now that the whole support system is not there to babysit them. This is particularly problematic with STEM students who were pampered throughout the high school. Many end up changing majors to humanities or stem adjacent majors. It's not about pride or shame. The sooner your kid learnt how to challenge herself, the better the outcome in the colleges.

My kid and their friends winning national awards have tutors.

Right. They're winning awards because they are already tutored within one inch of their life. Aren't you exhausted snow-plowing the path for them?

Imagine how much more impressive it is when they win national awards with no outside help.

I’m sorry that you are bitterly envious of higher achievers. Don’t worry, these grapes are sour anyway. You wouldn’t want them.

I didn’t sense the previous poster was “bitterly envious”. What’s so wrong or bitter about what she said? Wouldn’t you want your child to accomplish something knowing that they worked hard and earned it fair and square? Why rob your child of genuine confidence?

I’d rather my kid be a B+ student knowing they earned that B+, than to be an A- student but wonder how much of that was the tutor, and to have a lifelong nagging feeling that my parents didn’t have confidence in me to succeed on my own.

A lifelong nagging feeling based on high school grades? Seems unlikely.

I agree with the poster on executive coaching above. To me, you don’t do math tutoring to turn a B+ into a A. You do it to learn math, because if you don’t really learn math, then physics (or whatever else you’re interested in) is harder.

My kid with ADHD did all kinds of tutoring (and speech therapy, OT, and therapy, and executive function coaching, as well as private athletic training) throughout school. Not to get better grades, but overcome learning deficits, really understand material, play his sport in front of a big crowd of his peers, and to be able to not use ADHD meds (his choice). He just graduated from an “elite” college with a double major, very close to 4.0 grades, honors, and some journal article credits.

DS got good grades in college because he was passionate about what he studied. He was a standout athlete in HS because he was obsessed with his sport. That passion and enjoyment should be the focus, not whether a kid “deserved” their A-.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No tutoring here—and definitely no shaming. A lot of students who have had extensive tutoring throughout middle and high school do not automatically develop strong study skills or independent learning habits once they get to college. My kid is a STEM major and tutors both through the college and privately. He sees firsthand how many students, including those who were heavily supported with tutoring for classes, SATs, and APs, still struggle once they are on their own.

The kids without using tutors are far stronger than those do. This is not so obvious in high school. Once they begin college, a lot of them will struggle now that the whole support system is not there to babysit them. This is particularly problematic with STEM students who were pampered throughout the high school. Many end up changing majors to humanities or stem adjacent majors. It's not about pride or shame. The sooner your kid learnt how to challenge herself, the better the outcome in the colleges.

My kid and their friends winning national awards have tutors.

Right. They're winning awards because they are already tutored within one inch of their life. Aren't you exhausted snow-plowing the path for them?

Imagine how much more impressive it is when they win national awards with no outside help.

I’m sorry that you are bitterly envious of higher achievers. Don’t worry, these grapes are sour anyway. You wouldn’t want them.

I didn’t sense the previous poster was “bitterly envious”. What’s so wrong or bitter about what she said? Wouldn’t you want your child to accomplish something knowing that they worked hard and earned it fair and square? Why rob your child of genuine confidence?

I’d rather my kid be a B+ student knowing they earned that B+, than to be an A- student but wonder how much of that was the tutor, and to have a lifelong nagging feeling that my parents didn’t have confidence in me to succeed on my own.

If you had a tutor and went from a B+ to an A-,
you wld have this? I mean this kindly: you are exaggerating, have significant anxiety or insecurity, or a combination of both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s an inequality problem. Command Education (an nyc college consultancy) recommends very wealthy families go to lower ranked non-competitive public high schools. Then the kids, once there, will be tutored to stand out in and out of school.

These same families also get all the accommodations for their kids. All that for gaining an edge.

[Anonymous]

Tutoring is just work, with another person present. No reputable tutor, student, or family, would hire a tutor to do the work FOR the student.

Seems to me the difference is whether your kid is helped by doing their homework alongside someone else or is happy to do it on their own. Congrats, I guess, if your kid does learns well enough on their own. But also not sure why it’s cheating to study and work alongside someone else. Just like if it was the child’s parent or a study group.

Obviously a lot of abuse, gray areas, and slippery slopes people can raise on this topic, which are fair. But the basic idea of doing your studies with another person - why is it objectionable?