The most test optional-friendly schools - no penalty

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's such a shame that TO has inflated average test scores at most schools. It isn't just the 1550 kids who get screwed, since they'll submit test scores regardless. Its kids who get a 1450 (97% percentile), feel like failures, and are told they're below the school average so they shouldn't submit their scores (even though that average is based on 28% of kids).

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Agree, it makes it very hard to really decide where you fit and if you should submit your scores. DC is struggling with this. 1440 on SAT, 96th percentile nationally, and in the bottom 25% of students submitting scores to several schools they are interested in - so getting mixed advice on to submit or not.

DCUM doesn't talk about this very frequently. I am curious what would happen if you submit bottom 25% to a TO school.
Isn't it better to submit? If you don't submit, aren't they going to just assume your score is far lower than 25%? For sure one would not submit 1200, 1300.

Really depends on the school and just how TO they are. My kid did not submit a 1490 (790 V 700M) to a school that was TO prepandemic but loves super high scores if submitted. Would have been 25th percentile of admitted students but still a strong score. Extremely divisive decision on this board but it worked out. The TO haters could not get their heads around sitting on a 1490, but I think it depends on the school. If a school says it’s TO, but most of their accepted students submit scores, the analysis is obviously different. Maybe you risk submitting at 25%. My kid was also able to put NM Commended on their application, which could have provided some additional comfort that the standardized testing was in a reasonable range. Ultimately, I think the question is does submitting the score help your overall profile. If you have all the other things (gpa, rigor, leadership, ECs, essays, recs, etc) and a score that is good but not at that level, why bother if the school is fine evaluating your kid without the score. Asking if they’ll assume your score is terrible if you don’t submit is just buying into the foolish notion that the SAT score is the most important data point in holistic admissions. That’s far from true at test required schools.

I think this is an isolated case not generally applicable to other applicants. Your DC has commended NM, that is equivalent to submitting a 1490, as another PP pointed out.

Which true TO school loves super high score? If a school is true TO (Bowdoin), it will consider your score, but no true TO school would put additional weight just because you have a "super high score (typically valued only by MIT Rice etc). I don't believe Bowdoin (or any of SWAP) would do that.

Agree on the analysis for a school that says it’s TO, but most of their accepted students submit scores (Penn, Rice).

Ugh. No one is suggesting that this strategy should apply to everyone. I simply offered my family’s experience not submitting a high score that fell around the 25th percentile for that school and still finding success. That’s all I meant by loving high test scores. If 75% of admits who submitted scores have a 1500, the school likes high scorers. The point is weigh TO schools, the decision to submit is about the totality of the circumstances. I’m not going to debate if SLACs “really, really like high scores” the same way MIT does. Invoking MIT is rarely relevant in a broad based discussion about college admissions.

Only a handful of TO schools other than T5 can pull that off. WashU, Vandy, Northwestern, Chicago

Oh boy, sounds like we have another person who’s hates the idea of sitting on a 1490. That’s fine, but I would encourage you to look past the distro in a CDS to what the schools themselves say about SAT ranges for admitted students. CDSs show the ranges for matriculating students and those ranges are often pretty different. Again, just one small part of the analysis.

All I can find is the CDS data. Link to SAT range for admitted students?

I’m sure you can search admitted student or class profile on a college website. That said, one example (not the test case from above) is Amherst College which shows a slightly higher range for admitted students than matriculating students. Both 1500 or more at the 25th percentile BTW. Other schools’ spreads are greater.

https://www.amherst.edu/about/facts/secondary_school_reports/class-of-2028-profile

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Can't stand test optional.

I'm sure it's because your kid(s) did well on the standardized tests. My kids did well on the standardized tests, so I'm not a fan either. If my kids did poorly on the tests I would support test optional.

I'm an under 6 foot male who's otherwise good at basketball, but I don't support height limits in the NBA.

I support what is best for my kids. If TO is best, then I support TO. If test required is best, then I support test required. I'm not advocated what is best overall, just is what is best for my kids.

That's fair. I guess we're all like that. I just hate that my 1500+ kid has to compete with kids who scored way lower. Just like Reggie Miller's parents would have had every right to complain about basketball tryouts where shooting drills were optional.

Your kid is also competing against kids who benefit from grade inflation, or private school educations, or tutors, or athletes with 1100 SAT scores or parents who helped them start a sham nonprofit.

True. People complain that standardized tests can be gamed by privileged kids who can afford expensive prep, but everyone still has to sit down and take the same test under the same conditions. It’s all the “holistic” bull crap for test-optional applicants that really lets rich helicopter parents sneak their mediocre kids in.

Lots of affluent kids also get extended time due to an accommodation they were able to get from a diagnosis from private evaluation which can easily cost 4-5k. It's shocking how many kids at my kid's HS get this. It's a game changer for scores.

I have a child with a IEP and significant special needs whose Full Scale IQ of 90 including a 1% processing speed. He legitimately requires time and a half. This is not the profile I am referring to.

Lots of kids with Anxiety and ADHD get a 504 approved with 1.5 time. Maybe they need a little bit of extra time but 1.5 time is a huge advantage and lots of
Kids in affluent schools are getting it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's such a shame that TO has inflated average test scores at most schools. It isn't just the 1550 kids who get screwed, since they'll submit test scores regardless. Its kids who get a 1450 (97% percentile), feel like failures, and are told they're below the school average so they shouldn't submit their scores (even though that average is based on 28% of kids).

'

Agree, it makes it very hard to really decide where you fit and if you should submit your scores. DC is struggling with this. 1440 on SAT, 96th percentile nationally, and in the bottom 25% of students submitting scores to several schools they are interested in - so getting mixed advice on to submit or not.

DCUM doesn't talk about this very frequently. I am curious what would happen if you submit bottom 25% to a TO school.
Isn't it better to submit? If you don't submit, aren't they going to just assume your score is far lower than 25%? For sure one would not submit 1200, 1300.

Really depends on the school and just how TO they are. My kid did not submit a 1490 (790 V 700M) to a school that was TO prepandemic but loves super high scores if submitted. Would have been 25th percentile of admitted students but still a strong score. Extremely divisive decision on this board but it worked out. The TO haters could not get their heads around sitting on a 1490, but I think it depends on the school. If a school says it’s TO, but most of their accepted students submit scores, the analysis is obviously different. Maybe you risk submitting at 25%. My kid was also able to put NM Commended on their application, which could have provided some additional comfort that the standardized testing was in a reasonable range. Ultimately, I think the question is does submitting the score help your overall profile. If you have all the other things (gpa, rigor, leadership, ECs, essays, recs, etc) and a score that is good but not at that level, why bother if the school is fine evaluating your kid without the score. Asking if they’ll assume your score is terrible if you don’t submit is just buying into the foolish notion that the SAT score is the most important data point in holistic admissions. That’s far from true at test required schools.

💯 the advice college counselors would give.

- How strong is the application without the score.
- Does the score help or hurt that profile?
- What % of admitted class what’s TO?
- What’s the avg score for your senior class and is it published on your school’s Landscape profile? If your kid is really below it and you are applying to a selective school that’s hard for an AO to defend or rationalize in committee. Better for you to give them something else.
- Think about the entire picture.

Agree.

Some selective schools are very open about the fact that they don’t care about scores - they will tell you in campus tours and information sessions not to submit a sub-50% score….You should believe what they tell you.