Music Cuts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually don't understand what's being described. What is being eliminated, and why, and what is being retained?

The “why” is spelled out clearly:

- they are eliminating these music classes due to racial equity reasons.

FCPS has repeatedly stated their number one priority is: equity (the “E” in DEI).

They are eliminating them because westfield was breaking the rules and giving academic credit for after school activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who are saying that offering classes outside of the school day for credit is unique to Westfield are 100% wrong.

My DD has been taking a choir class for credit at another FCPS school for 3 years and there are definitely plenty of others who offer before or after school courses for credit.

When it comes to the fine arts, its the only way many students can take the classes that they want with the few electives that they have at their disposal. It also allows kids to go more in depth with their fine arts education - for instance, taking both choir and show choir, marching band and jazz band, etc.

Those are not supposed to be for credit.

How do you know? Seems like you're just mad because you don't have the opportunity.

Because the 0.5 advanced coursework honors bump was created to give a boost to the top level audition ensemble at each FCPS high school.

It was not created to reward club participation in after school activities, and was only for the in achool advanced music classes taken during the day, with tests and written requirements in a set curriculum, such as music theory, and which participates in the yearly state assessment each spring with pre approved music selections and sight reading evalution.

The 0.5 bump is an honors curriculum bump for the advanced coursework of the most advanced music classes. One choir class, one orchestra class and one band class per high school.

It is not for show choir, jazz ensemble or marching band, just like math students don't get a GPA bump for matheletes and student council kids don't get a 0.5 GPA boost in their history classes and theater kids don't get an academic boost for performing in the musical.

That 0.5 boost was hard fought by the music teachers and approved to specifically recognize the advanced music curriculum, not to give a bonus for club participation or prrformances.

If Westfield was using that academic bimp to boost after school club participation, then they were not following policy and should be reigned back.

Where do you get the idea that the before school/after school music classes in question receive a .5 GPA boost??? They don't. Just a regular old 4.0 class. And at our FCPS high school, that class is held to exactly the same standards as other performing classes for credit that meet during the day. There is attendance taken, in-class assessments, grading, and mandatory participation in county-wide assessment performances and school concerts. Why shouldn't they get credit for it - it's not an elective club where you can choose to show up or not and no option to quit half way through the school year or take some time off.

Nope.

You are wrong.

FCPS does not award half credits for any classes, and certainly not for after school activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid trained two hours a day six days a week for basketball, worked three weeks of fundraise camp for free and didn't even get extra credit for PE class lol. Also they fundraised thousands of dollars....

Why does the music dept need so many different versions of the same thing?

My HS in the 80's counted participation on a school sports team as meeting the PE requirement. It didn't meet the health requirement, but you could take a semester health class once to knock that out. It was great because it allowed the athletes to have another elective if they wanted or a study hall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually don't understand what's being described. What is being eliminated, and why, and what is being retained?

The “why” is spelled out clearly:

- they are eliminating these music classes due to racial equity reasons.

FCPS has repeatedly stated their number one priority is: equity (the “E” in DEI).

They are eliminating them because westfield was breaking the rules and giving academic credit for after school activities.

Wrong. Re-read their own statement on page 1 of this thread. Here, I’ll paste it for you PP:

“Our administration at Westfield has decided to eliminate six after-school and before-school music classes. This decision was made due to what they perceive as a lack of equity in these classes,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who are saying that offering classes outside of the school day for credit is unique to Westfield are 100% wrong.

My DD has been taking a choir class for credit at another FCPS school for 3 years and there are definitely plenty of others who offer before or after school courses for credit.

When it comes to the fine arts, its the only way many students can take the classes that they want with the few electives that they have at their disposal. It also allows kids to go more in depth with their fine arts education - for instance, taking both choir and show choir, marching band and jazz band, etc.

Those are not supposed to be for credit.

How do you know? Seems like you're just mad because you don't have the opportunity.

Because the 0.5 advanced coursework honors bump was created to give a boost to the top level audition ensemble at each FCPS high school.

It was not created to reward club participation in after school activities, and was only for the in achool advanced music classes taken during the day, with tests and written requirements in a set curriculum, such as music theory, and which participates in the yearly state assessment each spring with pre approved music selections and sight reading evalution.

The 0.5 bump is an honors curriculum bump for the advanced coursework of the most advanced music classes. One choir class, one orchestra class and one band class per high school.

It is not for show choir, jazz ensemble or marching band, just like math students don't get a GPA bump for matheletes and student council kids don't get a 0.5 GPA boost in their history classes and theater kids don't get an academic boost for performing in the musical.

That 0.5 boost was hard fought by the music teachers and approved to specifically recognize the advanced music curriculum, not to give a bonus for club participation or prrformances.

If Westfield was using that academic bimp to boost after school club participation, then they were not following policy and should be reigned back.

Where do you get the idea that the before school/after school music classes in question receive a .5 GPA boost??? They don't. Just a regular old 4.0 class. And at our FCPS high school, that class is held to exactly the same standards as other performing classes for credit that meet during the day. There is attendance taken, in-class assessments, grading, and mandatory participation in county-wide assessment performances and school concerts. Why shouldn't they get credit for it - it's not an elective club where you can choose to show up or not and no option to quit half way through the school year or take some time off.

Nope.

You are wrong.

FCPS does not award half credits for any classes, and certainly not for after school activities.

Not sure what WHS specifically awards but this is a quote from the announcement post on page 1:

Our administration at Westfield has decided to eliminate six after-school and before-school music classes. This decision was made due to what they perceive as a lack of equity in these classes, particularly because we earn 0.5 credits for specific courses.


This lead to the believe that WHS was awarding a .5 for certain music classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually don't understand what's being described. What is being eliminated, and why, and what is being retained?

The “why” is spelled out clearly:

- they are eliminating these music classes due to racial equity reasons.

FCPS has repeatedly stated their number one priority is: equity (the “E” in DEI).

They are eliminating them because westfield was breaking the rules and giving academic credit for after school activities.

Wrong. Re-read their own statement on page 1 of this thread. Here, I’ll paste it for you PP:

“Our administration at Westfield has decided to eliminate six after-school and before-school music classes. This decision was made due to what they perceive as a lack of equity in these classes,

You didn’t quote the whole thing. See below

[Anonymous]

I wonder how long Westfield has been doing this. Do ANY other schools do it? How was it budgeted? Schools are usually given funds based on student enrollment and some programs that may require additional funds. Honors classes do get the bump--so is the after school practice connected to a school hour class?

Also, I read the Westfield Watchdog and read about the day the students were outside most of the day waiting on a decision about closing. (fire related).

It sounds like principals spend more time out of the school at meetings rather than in the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually don't understand what's being described. What is being eliminated, and why, and what is being retained?

The “why” is spelled out clearly:

- they are eliminating these music classes due to racial equity reasons.

FCPS has repeatedly stated their number one priority is: equity (the “E” in DEI).

They are eliminating them because westfield was breaking the rules and giving academic credit for after school activities.

Wrong. Re-read their own statement on page 1 of this thread. Here, I’ll paste it for you PP:

“Our administration at Westfield has decided to eliminate six after-school and before-school music classes. This decision was made due to what they perceive as a lack of equity in these classes,

Just because students wrote something in a change .org petition does not mean that the teenagers are accurate or have correct information.

[Anonymous]

The fire day was so poorly managed. The kids were told to leave their bags, water etc in the classes when the alsrm went off and were herded into the stadium and just left there for 6+ hours. No water was even provided. Parents were not informed. Parents trying to pickup their kids were turned away.

[Anonymous]

My DD goes to WHS and is a musician affected by this decision. She is in the most advanced ensemble for her instrument, and it’s an honors course, so she gets a 0.5 GPA bump. This is not unique to WHS; there are 25 or so high schools that offer honors band/orchestra, etc.

Everyone in the honors ensemble meets for 1.5 hours, once a week, outside of school hours. In this case, it’s a symphonic orchestra that otherwise does not meet during school hours (the kids take the most advanced orchestra and band separately during school hours and come together to form a full symphony during the after school hours). There is at least one other HS that does it in a similar manner (meets regularly after school, but not once a week) that I know of, because DD has friends that are in those ensembles. As far as I know, this is how things have been done for over a decade.

DD’s understanding is that the other arts departments complained that they don’t have similar offerings, leading to the cuts to level the playing field. She was told that this will result in honors ensembles being done away with entirely, and believes it will lead to further drop in participation.

[Anonymous]

Why don't the athletes get an honors bump for PE class? They practice two hours a day six days a week.

1.5 hours once a week after school is a club which should not get academic credit let alone an honors bump. Do any other electives get an honors gpa boost? No wonder the music kids do so well in college apps if they are getting freebie gpa boosts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD goes to WHS and is a musician affected by this decision. She is in the most advanced ensemble for her instrument, and it’s an honors course, so she gets a 0.5 GPA bump. This is not unique to WHS; there are 25 or so high schools that offer honors band/orchestra, etc.

Everyone in the honors ensemble meets for 1.5 hours, once a week, outside of school hours. In this case, it’s a symphonic orchestra that otherwise does not meet during school hours (the kids take the most advanced orchestra and band separately during school hours and come together to form a full symphony during the after school hours). There is at least one other HS that does it in a similar manner (meets regularly after school, but not once a week) that I know of, because DD has friends that are in those ensembles. As far as I know, this is how things have been done for over a decade.

DD’s understanding is that the other arts departments complained that they don’t have similar offerings, leading to the cuts to level the playing field. She was told that this will result in honors ensembles being done away with entirely, and believes it will lead to further drop in participation.

Honors classes should be meeting during school hours. Extra practice is a thing, and I get that, but it should be extra and not a regularly scheduled extra that impacts a grade in school. Do we tell the kids taking honors math that they need to participate in math club, or it will impact their grade?

I would hope that the kids who are invested enough in music would be willing to continue to participate in the additional programs because of the different competitions and activities that come from it, just like the kids participating in any club does. The Math competition kids are not getting credit for attending the club and participating in competitions, they do it because they enjoy it and they think it will benefit them in some way. Extra music programs should be the same. And the Teachers should be paid as a club advisor if they are meeting like a club does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD goes to WHS and is a musician affected by this decision. She is in the most advanced ensemble for her instrument, and it’s an honors course, so she gets a 0.5 GPA bump. This is not unique to WHS; there are 25 or so high schools that offer honors band/orchestra, etc.

Everyone in the honors ensemble meets for 1.5 hours, once a week, outside of school hours. In this case, it’s a symphonic orchestra that otherwise does not meet during school hours (the kids take the most advanced orchestra and band separately during school hours and come together to form a full symphony during the after school hours). There is at least one other HS that does it in a similar manner (meets regularly after school, but not once a week) that I know of, because DD has friends that are in those ensembles. As far as I know, this is how things have been done for over a decade.

DD’s understanding is that the other arts departments complained that they don’t have similar offerings, leading to the cuts to level the playing field. She was told that this will result in honors ensembles being done away with entirely, and believes it will lead to further drop in participation.

Honors classes should be meeting during school hours. Extra practice is a thing, and I get that, but it should be extra and not a regularly scheduled extra that impacts a grade in school. Do we tell the kids taking honors math that they need to participate in math club, or it will impact their grade?

I would hope that the kids who are invested enough in music would be willing to continue to participate in the additional programs because of the different competitions and activities that come from it, just like the kids participating in any club does. The Math competition kids are not getting credit for attending the club and participating in competitions, they do it because they enjoy it and they think it will benefit them in some way. Extra music programs should be the same. And the Teachers should be paid as a club advisor if they are meeting like a club does.

I think the difference here is that honors math (for instance) has well defined extensions that can be done in class during class times. Honors Orchestra/Band (where the honors part is essentially playing symphonic works) cannot, as it brings together orchestra kids and band kids, and is separate from orchestra and band classes.

Unlike with math, there are no competitions or other activities that come with it, other than the yearly assessments that every school orchestra participates in, not just the honors one. Additionally, without the honors bump, participation in this brings down GPAs, disincentivizing kids from participating. Math and science has honors and APs, but this would not. Kids who would like to maintain high GPAs would probably end up taking AP Music Theory, or other APs instead of continuing to participate. They can (and usually do) participate in youth orchestras, so there is no unmet need here.

[Anonymous]

Math and Science are core subjects.

Music is just an elective and should be treated as such.

What other electives get honors credit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD goes to WHS and is a musician affected by this decision. She is in the most advanced ensemble for her instrument, and it’s an honors course, so she gets a 0.5 GPA bump. This is not unique to WHS; there are 25 or so high schools that offer honors band/orchestra, etc.

Everyone in the honors ensemble meets for 1.5 hours, once a week, outside of school hours. In this case, it’s a symphonic orchestra that otherwise does not meet during school hours (the kids take the most advanced orchestra and band separately during school hours and come together to form a full symphony during the after school hours). There is at least one other HS that does it in a similar manner (meets regularly after school, but not once a week) that I know of, because DD has friends that are in those ensembles. As far as I know, this is how things have been done for over a decade.

DD’s understanding is that the other arts departments complained that they don’t have similar offerings, leading to the cuts to level the playing field. She was told that this will result in honors ensembles being done away with entirely, and believes it will lead to further drop in participation.

Honors classes should be meeting during school hours. Extra practice is a thing, and I get that, but it should be extra and not a regularly scheduled extra that impacts a grade in school. Do we tell the kids taking honors math that they need to participate in math club, or it will impact their grade?

I would hope that the kids who are invested enough in music would be willing to continue to participate in the additional programs because of the different competitions and activities that come from it, just like the kids participating in any club does. The Math competition kids are not getting credit for attending the club and participating in competitions, they do it because they enjoy it and they think it will benefit them in some way. Extra music programs should be the same. And the Teachers should be paid as a club advisor if they are meeting like a club does.

I think the difference here is that honors math (for instance) has well defined extensions that can be done in class during class times. Honors Orchestra/Band (where the honors part is essentially playing symphonic works) cannot, as it brings together orchestra kids and band kids, and is separate from orchestra and band classes.

Unlike with math, there are no competitions or other activities that come with it, other than the yearly assessments that every school orchestra participates in, not just the honors one. Additionally, without the honors bump, participation in this brings down GPAs, disincentivizing kids from participating. Math and science has honors and APs, but this would not. Kids who would like to maintain high GPAs would probably end up taking AP Music Theory, or other APs instead of continuing to participate. They can (and usually do) participate in youth orchestras, so there is no unmet need here.

As someone who participated in music and has friends whose kids are participating in music, there are competitions and the like that the kids could be participating in. If the "extra practice" is 1.5 hours once a week then it can be treated like a club. The kids can choose to participate in a club that they benefit from, extra practice and instruction, and can probably find competitions or places that they could play above and beyond the school choir.

A kid who is interested in music should be interested in the club orchestra/band in the same way that a kid interested in math can choose to participate in the math clubs and math competitions.

I am not sure why there needs to be an honors band as an elective. Parents and students should understand that colleges unweight GPAs when they apply as it is so an A in orchestra/band is still an A.