Wall Street Journal on Gender Storytime in Montgomery County

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never once seen an example of a book that was actually being read in class that was actually offensive. The examples they have in the lawsuit seemed to be books that were on lists to possibly be read but no one ever seemed to say “yes my kids second grade teacher is reading this.”
It just seems like a huge non issue.

You’re full of shit. The opt out bigots are also opposed to uncle Bobby’s wedding which is the most harmless story except to people freaked out Bobby’s spouse is a man.

Not one of these books was ever used in the classroom

The people are lying. They don't even have kids in public school. This lawsuit is absurd.

SCOTUS will give them this win God help all of us. It is not going to end well. UGH

That’s not true. My DD’s 4th grade class had to read the Boy Named Penelope book. I think that book is absolutely ridiculous and dangerous.

Huh? What on earth is "dangerous" about it? I've read it, it's a simple kids book about a kid who's trans... It honestly seems fine even for 5 year olds let alone 4th graders, nothing about genitals or sex or anything else folks might think is age-inappropriate, just a little trans kid being a kid. I can't imagine anything offensive or problematic about it, unless you don't think kids should know that trans kids exist? And even then, dangerous suggests someone could somehow be hurt by it and unless your kid is such a fragile snowflake you think they're going to collapse upon learning of the existence of trans kids (super weird if so), how could a book like this possibly hurt anyone?

I think the argument people are having here is about: do you think kids can change their gender just by thinking it is so, and do you think we should teach them about it. I think there is a reasonable difference of opinion on this.

Correct. This is one of the main arguments that LGBTQ advocates insist is truth and must be accepted by all as truth that the silent majority is resisting.

The reality is that there is a difference in many parents' opinions about the books about LGB (which for ES are really about the composition of those families) vs T (which is about kids internally).

Not a judgment on having the books, opt outs, etc.

[Anonymous]

If this was all about parents not believing trans people exist (and hello—two of my high school classmates came out as trans long after high school and looking back it explained a lot), they wouldn’t want to opt out from Uncke Bobby’s Wedding, which would literally be the exact story if the spouse was a woman. Literally only names and pronouns are what tells you he’s gay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this was all about parents not believing trans people exist (and hello—two of my high school classmates came out as trans long after high school and looking back it explained a lot), they wouldn’t want to opt out from Uncke Bobby’s Wedding, which would literally be the exact story if the spouse was a woman. Literally only names and pronouns are what tells you he’s gay.

I think a lot of people (myself included) recognize that trans people exist, but that it is rare and is, in fact, a psychological disorder. They should be treated with respect and not discriminated against, but there is no reason to encourage it or to introduce it to children as a natural choice.

The current movement to mainstream it is causing a lot of artificial and harmful social contagian. If you want to present it as a psychological disorder like depression, and OCD, that would be one thing. But that is not how it is being presented .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was all about parents not believing trans people exist (and hello—two of my high school classmates came out as trans long after high school and looking back it explained a lot), they wouldn’t want to opt out from Uncke Bobby’s Wedding, which would literally be the exact story if the spouse was a woman. Literally only names and pronouns are what tells you he’s gay.

I think a lot of people (myself included) recognize that trans people exist, but that it is rare and is, in fact, a psychological disorder. They should be treated with respect and not discriminated against, but there is no reason to encourage it or to introduce it to children as a natural choice.

The current movement to mainstream it is causing a lot of artificial and harmful social contagian. If you want to present it as a psychological disorder like depression, and OCD, that would be one thing. But that is not how it is being presented .

There is no mention of anything trans in Uncle Bobby’s Wedding. These people are motivated by their hatred of lgbtq people not just discomfort with trans people.

And I’m a pretty normal suburban mom with a normal friend/colleague group, and I know multiple non-binary and trans folks, am close friends with two, and have a very close friend with a trans son. Doesn’t seem rare to me.

Back in the 90s when I was in high school, I would have sworn I didn’t know any gay people but as it became more accepted, it turned out I knew quite a few. It’s the same thing with trans people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was all about parents not believing trans people exist (and hello—two of my high school classmates came out as trans long after high school and looking back it explained a lot), they wouldn’t want to opt out from Uncke Bobby’s Wedding, which would literally be the exact story if the spouse was a woman. Literally only names and pronouns are what tells you he’s gay.

I think a lot of people (myself included) recognize that trans people exist, but that it is rare and is, in fact, a psychological disorder. They should be treated with respect and not discriminated against, but there is no reason to encourage it or to introduce it to children as a natural choice.

The current movement to mainstream it is causing a lot of artificial and harmful social contagian. If you want to present it as a psychological disorder like depression, and OCD, that would be one thing. But that is not how it is being presented .

It should be respected and not discriminated against, as long as we make sure to disrespect it and discriminate against it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never once seen an example of a book that was actually being read in class that was actually offensive. The examples they have in the lawsuit seemed to be books that were on lists to possibly be read but no one ever seemed to say “yes my kids second grade teacher is reading this.”
It just seems like a huge non issue.

Yep, but the RWNs will win given SCOTUS' RW leanings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was all about parents not believing trans people exist (and hello—two of my high school classmates came out as trans long after high school and looking back it explained a lot), they wouldn’t want to opt out from Uncke Bobby’s Wedding, which would literally be the exact story if the spouse was a woman. Literally only names and pronouns are what tells you he’s gay.

I think a lot of people (myself included) recognize that trans people exist, but that it is rare and is, in fact, a psychological disorder. They should be treated with respect and not discriminated against, but there is no reason to encourage it or to introduce it to children as a natural choice.

The current movement to mainstream it is causing a lot of artificial and harmful social contagian. If you want to present it as a psychological disorder like depression, and OCD, that would be one thing. But that is not how it is being presented .

There is no mention of anything trans in Uncle Bobby’s Wedding. These people are motivated by their hatred of lgbtq people not just discomfort with trans people.

And I’m a pretty normal suburban mom with a normal friend/colleague group, and I know multiple non-binary and trans folks, am close friends with two, and have a very close friend with a trans son. Doesn’t seem rare to me.

Back in the 90s when I was in high school, I would have sworn I didn’t know any gay people but as it became more accepted, it turned out I knew quite a few. It’s the same thing with trans people.

You’re a suburban mom in one of the farthest left places in the world. Your friend/colleague group is comprised of the types of far left people who chose to live here. It’s not even remotely normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Putting aside the emotional aspect of this argument, there is a link to the briefs filed by MCPS and the Plaintiffs. I'm not a lawyer, but it's a fascinating read.

MCPS Opposition to Writ of Certiorari:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/24/24-297/335502/20241218150621210_24-297%20-%20Mahmoud%20v.%20Taylor%20-%20Brief%20in%20Opposition.pdf

Plaintiffs Argument for Writ of Certiorari:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/24/24-297/336156/20241227173322003_Mahmoud%20Cert%20Reply%20FINAL.pdf

Link to the Documents filed with the case, including various amicus briefs and other replies by MCPS and plaintiffs:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docket/docketfiles/html/public%5C24-297.html

Looks like the question is if the inclusion of these books is just exposing students to ideas that are at odds with their religious beliefs, or if these books are part of an effort by MCPS to instruct students to think a specific way about gender and sexuality.

I believe that it was absolutely an effort by MCPS to instruct students to think a specific way about gender and sexuality. Hence them balking when too many parents "opted out." They didn't like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was all about parents not believing trans people exist (and hello—two of my high school classmates came out as trans long after high school and looking back it explained a lot), they wouldn’t want to opt out from Uncke Bobby’s Wedding, which would literally be the exact story if the spouse was a woman. Literally only names and pronouns are what tells you he’s gay.

I think a lot of people (myself included) recognize that trans people exist, but that it is rare and is, in fact, a psychological disorder. They should be treated with respect and not discriminated against, but there is no reason to encourage it or to introduce it to children as a natural choice.

The current movement to mainstream it is causing a lot of artificial and harmful social contagian. If you want to present it as a psychological disorder like depression, and OCD, that would be one thing. But that is not how it is being presented .

There is no mention of anything trans in Uncle Bobby’s Wedding. These people are motivated by their hatred of lgbtq people not just discomfort with trans people.

And I’m a pretty normal suburban mom with a normal friend/colleague group, and I know multiple non-binary and trans folks, am close friends with two, and have a very close friend with a trans son. Doesn’t seem rare to me.

Back in the 90s when I was in high school, I would have sworn I didn’t know any gay people but as it became more accepted, it turned out I knew quite a few. It’s the same thing with trans people.

You’re a suburban mom in one of the farthest left places in the world. Your friend/colleague group is comprised of the types of far left people who chose to live here. It’s not even remotely normal.

Especially if PP is a suburban mom in one of the ultra-liberal bubbles in MoCo like Takoma Park or Silver Spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this was all about parents not believing trans people exist (and hello—two of my high school classmates came out as trans long after high school and looking back it explained a lot), they wouldn’t want to opt out from Uncke Bobby’s Wedding, which would literally be the exact story if the spouse was a woman. Literally only names and pronouns are what tells you he’s gay.

What a straw man. The Q is whether books and instruction on a topic are needed in ES. Many things exist and are not covered in a specific curriculum.

[Anonymous]

I don't know about your kids but my kids and their friends can smell the bullsh!t in this material. Even as early as K they were skeptical about some of this stuff presented to them.
The overall effect is eye-rolls.

I also agree with an earlier poster who mentioned the poor writing in the materials. I happened to look at "Chains", a forgotten book on their shelves a few years after the kids finished high school. There is nothing literary about it, nothing about the storyline was credible and the writer's voice is strictly early 21st century woke squak when the book is supposed to take place prior to the Civil War.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was all about parents not believing trans people exist (and hello—two of my high school classmates came out as trans long after high school and looking back it explained a lot), they wouldn’t want to opt out from Uncke Bobby’s Wedding, which would literally be the exact story if the spouse was a woman. Literally only names and pronouns are what tells you he’s gay.

I think a lot of people (myself included) recognize that trans people exist, but that it is rare and is, in fact, a psychological disorder. They should be treated with respect and not discriminated against, but there is no reason to encourage it or to introduce it to children as a natural choice.

The current movement to mainstream it is causing a lot of artificial and harmful social contagian. If you want to present it as a psychological disorder like depression, and OCD, that would be one thing. But that is not how it is being presented .

Because that is not true.

https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbtq/transgender-people-gender-identity-gender-expression

Is being transgender a mental disorder?

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."

[Anonymous]

Shouldn’t the real issue be that mcps students can literally google anything they want from their mcps Google accounts and that mcps uses sites that collect student data? Children’s online privacy act????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I believe that it was absolutely an effort by MCPS to instruct students to think a specific way about gender and sexuality. Hence them balking when too many parents "opted out." They didn't like that.

As you read the back and forth between the two parties, that is what the case hinges on. MCPS made clear that the goal was to disrupt the either/or thinking about gender. MCPS seems to think that there would have to be an actual coercive challenge to a religious belief for the plaintiffs to have a case, not just exposure to the uncomfortable ideas.
No matter what you think about the intentions of MCPS, they’re going to lose, and lose badly.

[Anonymous]

Surprised this isn’t part of the case: https://defendinged.org/incidents/montgomery-county-public-schools-gender-identity-policies-bar-staff-from-revealing-students-gender-transition-to-parents/