Top private vs public universities: quality of college experience and future job prospects

[Anonymous]

OP - My advice would be to send your child to wherever they will be happiest and where you think they will perform best. These two factors are generally related, I think. I personally slightly lean toward public colleges and high schools because I prefer to avoid intellectual and economic snobbery when possible. I live in a wealthy area and know many of these "everything is better private" tools. We can afford private college and HS, so it's not an economic issue for me. My preference is for my children to be challenged academically while building their self-reliance skills. I also have been on several tours of private colleges and know when I'm being marketed to, both by the school and by others dug into perceived advantages.

A top public university will have all the necessary resources and opportunities to help your child succeed. The processes might be challenging at a larger public institution but nothing insurmountable. If your child is leaning toward a major where one school is substantially better than the other, then let that guide you. For example, I would think that a business graduate from Penn would have more opportunities than a graduate from Penn State, but an engineering graduate from Penn would fare no better than one from Penn State. Just my two cents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t actually understand what parents see as the benefit of paying ooo for a school like Michigan. I get it’s a fun atmosphere but do you really think the academics and teaching are as good as a T20 private?
I understand going to a public if you are in state and / or getting merit. But I know people paying full price for these schools (UCs also) and that surprises me. Michigan is a lot more expensive than UMD or Pitt and I don’t understand what it offers in terms of quality of education for that price. I would prefer many lower ranked mid-sized private schools and LACs.

Well since you obviously worship USNWR rankings check this out:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching?_sort=rank&_sortDirection=asc

Michigan #14

Its PA score at USNWR is also among the top 20.

Michigan just does so many things well.

I don’t worship UNSWR at all. I would prefer a lower ranked school with a focus on teaching and learning. Most LACs and mid-sized schools care about undergrad teaching and I want my child to go to college primarily to learn. For the cost of Michigan oos I would much rather pay for a smaller private school. I am not saying I think large state schools are bad but if I could afford better I wouldn’t choose a large state school for undergrad.

Concur!!! Almost everyone will benefit from smaller class sizes and better teaching. Instate rates for a large state school makes sense---it's a cost savings. Large State school OOS doesn't make as much sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Opinions on Michigan vs Northwestern? Something like poli sci/IR. Choose based on student preference, or is the larger Michigan alumni network a plus, as in, they're loyal and potentially useful to new grads?

As an (originally OOS) Michigan MBA grad, the Northwestern students and grads I have met are very similar types of people. Friendly, chill, smart, not elitist and yes, often Midwestern. I have read people saying that Northwestern kids are pointier and quirkier now due to admissions patterns. But you can decide if you think that matters. I gather the OOS students at Michigan are pretty similar from the bits of info I pick up.

My kid is an in-state freshman with a poli sci focus at Michigan and has had good conversations and encouragement from profs in his small and specialized classes. He is a serious and friendly student who regularly participates in class discussion. Profs like that. I don't think it would be going so well for a quiet kid who has to be drawn out.

I think Michigan has more of a tradition of public service careers and DC focus. Also tighter connections with some parts of Asia. I feel that it has been a globally connected school a lot longer than Northwestern.

Poli Sci and IR are not fully interchangeable. I'm curious about what area of IR is of interest. If your student has language and culture areas of interest, schools vary in strength related to that. I would also say that Michigan's best connections are to DC. I wouldn't necessarily pick Michigan to get a job at the UN in NYC, for example. But to go to the Peace Corps or eventually to the Foreign Service (I hear they like work experience first), Michigan would be a good choice.

Another observation...Michigan has a lot of really cool classes for people interested in the intersection of culture/history/politics, but they are not in the poli sci department. The IR classes to me look actually less mind-expanding than the ones that would be more history and area studies oriented. But that's a personal reaction. There certainly are enough courses to fill out a Poli Sci IR track as a sophomore-senior. I guess I'm more interested in why cultures and countries are the way they are than the exact structure of their governments, political parties, founding docs, etc.

I think students should carefully figure out what's different about the schools related to their specific interests. I think both schools are equal in many ways that make it too difficult to make a judgment here.

About size of alumni network...that is a very tertiary consideration right now. You should look at the prominence of alums in the desired fields, if anything. Sometimes small schools have stronger, tighter networks because there are fewer people and they know each other better. It's actually impossible to predict how that might play out for your kid unless you are looking at the level of "Is there an alumni club in City X" or my kid wants to work at X organization. Poke around on LinkedIn...that's the best most people can do.

It's my impression that foreign language classes beyond Spanish, French, and German are really losing ground in the US broadly across academe. So if your kid has a heritage language to perfect or an area studies interest, they need to factor that in to plans.

Be aware that IR may be a field, like Public Policy, where you get low-paid jobs out of college then need a Master's. Do look into the risks there. Obviously the whole institutional environment is in turmoil right now.

This is a good take. The breadth of courses and programs at a large school are a huge plus.

FOr undergrad, you typically only have so many "electives". What exactly does Michigan offer that NU does not? And can you even get into those courses. It's not like NU is a SLAC with only 2K undergrads. It's got 8K undergrads and a robust course schedule for most majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are considering between OOS public university and top10 private university.
One of the common advices I received is that public universities will make it difficult for students to get a personal attention and care.
I'm curious how much this is true compared to private universities.
Also, another advice I received is that the brand name of the private university will make a difference in the career.
I can see this in the case of HYPSM but other top10-20 private schools do really have a brand name recognition and advantages?

Would you like your student to get tucked in at night?

An unreasonably high percentage of people here would unironically answer yes to this question.

Oh please, people are talking about being able to graduate in 4 years as they don’t have to fight for classes they need. Quality and personalized advising for med, law, grad school. Smaller class sizes where you can have closer relationships with profs for LOR, and so on.

These myths are constantly pushed on this forum. My kids attend large state schools, have had excellent advising, gotten the classes they need to graduate in four years, and have established relationships with professors who have written their LORs for internships, etc. It's clear you have no experience with a great public university, so you continue to push idiotic stereotypes.
DP

Have you been on campus at a T30 smaller private University? Those are also readily available, and much easier to access. There are plenty of people at large State U (including Michigan) who have issues with all of the above. It's easier to fall in the cracks and for a student to have to negotiate to get these, where at a smaller school, it's much easier to get all of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are considering between OOS public university and top10 private university.
One of the common advices I received is that public universities will make it difficult for students to get a personal attention and care.
I'm curious how much this is true compared to private universities.
Also, another advice I received is that the brand name of the private university will make a difference in the career.
I can see this in the case of HYPSM but other top10-20 private schools do really have a brand name recognition and advantages?

Would you like your student to get tucked in at night?

An unreasonably high percentage of people here would unironically answer yes to this question.

Oh please, people are talking about being able to graduate in 4 years as they don’t have to fight for classes they need. Quality and personalized advising for med, law, grad school. Smaller class sizes where you can have closer relationships with profs for LOR, and so on.

THis 1000%

The perks of a smaller private university are huge. Not having to fight for the courses you want/need, great advising and advisors that know your student.

For ex: my kid was at a T100. Spent 1 year in Major X, then needed to switch. The "main advisor for Major X/School X" only knew my kid for less than 1 year, as they helped my kid figure out how to switch majors in April of Freshman year (on the day of Registration, 2 hours before reg none the less--so under intense pressure). That Advisor saw us at graduation and came over to talk. They knew my kid's name and remembered what major they were switching to. This isn't a school with 2k students, it's a school with about 8K undergrads.

That's what some of us want for our kids. When you have an ADHD kid, Anxiety ridden kid with Zero EF (except what you have trained them in), sometimes we and our kids know they need a bit extra care. The benefits of providing that means they excel in life.

I hear you. Intuitively, it makes sense. But do you have numbers to show this to be the case, as we look at student outcomes?

I don't need the numbers at all univserisites. I know my own kids experiences (3 of them) at schools in the 5K-8K size. I know from their friends who chose to attend a variety of schools as well. I know from our now (T50ish) state flagship where it is difficult to graduate in 4 years, most who do have to sacrifice getting into many courses they wanted and "settle". And many are forced to major in something they really didn't want, because they couldn't get into "the impacted major".

So while you can "have a great experience at a large state U", the personalized service and attention to students (who are only 18-22) is higher at most private Universities.
Heck even start with housing. The smaller schools have 1 RA for 30 students versus 1 RA for 75-90 freshman year. May not matter to you, but if your kid has a bad roommate and/or trouble adjusting to college, it helps to have a Real RA who is avaialable and well trained to assist (and able to assist because they are not covering 3x the number of students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are considering between OOS public university and top10 private university.
One of the common advices I received is that public universities will make it difficult for students to get a personal attention and care.
I'm curious how much this is true compared to private universities.
Also, another advice I received is that the brand name of the private university will make a difference in the career.
I can see this in the case of HYPSM but other top10-20 private schools do really have a brand name recognition and advantages?

Would you like your student to get tucked in at night?

An unreasonably high percentage of people here would unironically answer yes to this question.

Oh please, people are talking about being able to graduate in 4 years as they don’t have to fight for classes they need. Quality and personalized advising for med, law, grad school. Smaller class sizes where you can have closer relationships with profs for LOR, and so on.

These myths are constantly pushed on this forum. My kids attend large state schools, have had excellent advising, gotten the classes they need to graduate in four years, and have established relationships with professors who have written their LORs for internships, etc. It's clear you have no experience with a great public university, so you continue to push idiotic stereotypes.
DP

My favorite thing about the “graduate in 4 years” BS is that we actually have the data on it. And it shows us that 1) the vast majority of these kids are graduating in four years and 2) top publics tend to do really well, and certainly no worse, than top privates. UVA is number 2 overall at 92%. UNC and UCLA the same as Chicago and Tufts at 86%. Michigan and Florida the same as MIT at 82%. Cal the same as USC at 81%. All of them higher than Brown, Princeton, Cal Tech, Williams, and a whole slate of others.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate

In defense of schools with a larger percentage of students enrolled in Engineering, which requires additional credit hours to graduate, that tends to lower 4 year rates a bit. MIT, Caltech, UCB, Michigan, and some others listed above, fall into that category.

Yes, most engineering requires more courses than typical LA. Also, many engineering students do Coop (yes coops exist outside NEU) for at least 1 6 month session, and you don't graduate in 4 years typically with that.

If you delve deep into the graduation data (it exists at all of my kid's universities), you see engineering is typically a 50-60% 4 year grad rate and a 95% 5 year. That supports the above data points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are considering between OOS public university and top10 private university.
One of the common advices I received is that public universities will make it difficult for students to get a personal attention and care.
I'm curious how much this is true compared to private universities.
Also, another advice I received is that the brand name of the private university will make a difference in the career.
I can see this in the case of HYPSM but other top10-20 private schools do really have a brand name recognition and advantages?

Would you like your student to get tucked in at night?

An unreasonably high percentage of people here would unironically answer yes to this question.

Oh please, people are talking about being able to graduate in 4 years as they don’t have to fight for classes they need. Quality and personalized advising for med, law, grad school. Smaller class sizes where you can have closer relationships with profs for LOR, and so on.

These myths are constantly pushed on this forum. My kids attend large state schools, have had excellent advising, gotten the classes they need to graduate in four years, and have established relationships with professors who have written their LORs for internships, etc. It's clear you have no experience with a great public university, so you continue to push idiotic stereotypes.
DP

My favorite thing about the “graduate in 4 years” BS is that we actually have the data on it. And it shows us that 1) the vast majority of these kids are graduating in four years and 2) top publics tend to do really well, and certainly no worse, than top privates. UVA is number 2 overall at 92%. UNC and UCLA the same as Chicago and Tufts at 86%. Michigan and Florida the same as MIT at 82%. Cal the same as USC at 81%. All of them higher than Brown, Princeton, Cal Tech, Williams, and a whole slate of others.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate

In defense of schools with a larger percentage of students enrolled in Engineering, which requires additional credit hours to graduate, that tends to lower 4 year rates a bit. MIT, Caltech, UCB, Michigan, and some others listed above, fall into that category.

BS. At the top E private schools (MIT, stanford penn columbia princeton hopkins duke) 4+1 masters/BSE are popular (15%)which affects the “4 year” published rate, but of the students just doing an Engineering undergrad 95% graduate in 4 years. There is no problem getting classes at these schools; the engineering cohort is typically 300-500 undergrads per year the support is phenomenal and it is very rare to get below a C+. Some of these schools have median BSE gpa of 3.7 others have 3.5. These Eschools select for students who can handle 5 classes a semester

That’s doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t graduating in 4 years now does it? You do realize that it takes more credit hours of education to graduate with a degree in Engineering than in liberal arts right? It’s very common for students to take an extra semester/quarter to accomplish this. It has little to do with attending top privates and everything to do with this simple fact. I’m defending tech heavy schools, both private and public, and trying to explain why the graduation rate is lower. It’s hardly BS

“While a standard bachelor's degree often requires 120 credits, engineering programs can range from 120 to 133 or more, depending on the institution and specific engineering discipline.”

This 1000%. Not to mention most engineering degree courses are significantly more challenging than other majors, so you simply don't "add an extra course" and do well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Opinions on Michigan vs Northwestern? Something like poli sci/IR. Choose based on student preference, or is the larger Michigan alumni network a plus, as in, they're loyal and potentially useful to new grads?

Michigan obviously has the bigger alumni network, but Northwestern carries more weight with employers.

+1

I’m not hiring a NU alum over a Michigan alum, or visa-versa if one is more qualified than the other.

Well that should be true for anything. I hire based on someone's skill set/qualifications, and where they graduated college doesn't really come into play. I care about what they have done since they left college. that speaks for itself

[Anonymous]

Lots of choice-supportive bias here. You'll notice that most of the perceived advantages for private colleges listed are process-related, boiling down essentially to more hand-holding and easier-to-navigate campuses. While there are additional arguments, there isn't much more substance to them.

Some forum posters are so committed to their goal of securing a top private college that they cannot concede that excellent public alternatives provide comparable outcomes. This cognitive entrenchment makes it difficult for them to objectively evaluate educational options outside their chosen path.

[Anonymous]

“I went to a large (very good) public state university and my experience was very generic in comparison. I cannot remember the name of a single professor.”

Have you tried using Prevegen? I went to an average large state university 45 years ago and I still remember all the names of my professors who taught me in my major department. I even kept in touch with Some of them after graduation. I made a concerted effort to get to know my professors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:USC vs UCLA is a prime example in LA job market.

Would yo like to add some context? I live in the greater LA area and there is no difference in job market success between these schools. Both are excellent across the board. There are many other schools considered their equals in the area as well. Any typical C5, Oxy, UCSB, UCSD, LMU, Chapman, etc. grad will have lots of alumni in the area and do just fine.

That’s just not correct. USC has phenomenal networking and job placement. They have a lot of resources devoted to it.

UCLA is a fantastic college, but its alumni don’t look out for graduates the way USC alumni help out USC grads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:USC vs UCLA is a prime example in LA job market.

Would yo like to add some context? I live in the greater LA area and there is no difference in job market success between these schools. Both are excellent across the board. There are many other schools considered their equals in the area as well. Any typical C5, Oxy, UCSB, UCSD, LMU, Chapman, etc. grad will have lots of alumni in the area and do just fine.

That’s just not correct. USC has phenomenal networking and job placement. They have a lot of resources devoted to it.

UCLA is a fantastic college, but its alumni don’t look out for graduates the way USC alumni help out USC grads.

I'm thinking that USC alumni sticking together is probably "shared trauma" due to the high crime area surrounding the campus. Although in a scary area, is the campus at least "readily accessible" as one poster described T30 private campuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are considering between OOS public university and top10 private university.
One of the common advices I received is that public universities will make it difficult for students to get a personal attention and care.
I'm curious how much this is true compared to private universities.
Also, another advice I received is that the brand name of the private university will make a difference in the career.
I can see this in the case of HYPSM but other top10-20 private schools do really have a brand name recognition and advantages?

Would you like your student to get tucked in at night?

An unreasonably high percentage of people here would unironically answer yes to this question.

Oh please, people are talking about being able to graduate in 4 years as they don’t have to fight for classes they need. Quality and personalized advising for med, law, grad school. Smaller class sizes where you can have closer relationships with profs for LOR, and so on.

THis 1000%

The perks of a smaller private university are huge. Not having to fight for the courses you want/need, great advising and advisors that know your student.

For ex: my kid was at a T100. Spent 1 year in Major X, then needed to switch. The "main advisor for Major X/School X" only knew my kid for less than 1 year, as they helped my kid figure out how to switch majors in April of Freshman year (on the day of Registration, 2 hours before reg none the less--so under intense pressure). That Advisor saw us at graduation and came over to talk. They knew my kid's name and remembered what major they were switching to. This isn't a school with 2k students, it's a school with about 8K undergrads.

That's what some of us want for our kids. When you have an ADHD kid, Anxiety ridden kid with Zero EF (except what you have trained them in), sometimes we and our kids know they need a bit extra care. The benefits of providing that means they excel in life.

I hear you. Intuitively, it makes sense. But do you have numbers to show this to be the case, as we look at student outcomes?

I don't need the numbers at all univserisites. I know my own kids experiences (3 of them) at schools in the 5K-8K size. I know from their friends who chose to attend a variety of schools as well. I know from our now (T50ish) state flagship where it is difficult to graduate in 4 years, most who do have to sacrifice getting into many courses they wanted and "settle". And many are forced to major in something they really didn't want, because they couldn't get into "the impacted major".

So while you can "have a great experience at a large state U", the personalized service and attention to students (who are only 18-22) is higher at most private Universities.
Heck even start with housing. The smaller schools have 1 RA for 30 students versus 1 RA for 75-90 freshman year. May not matter to you, but if your kid has a bad roommate and/or trouble adjusting to college, it helps to have a Real RA who is avaialable and well trained to assist (and able to assist because they are not covering 3x the number of students

Not only more RAs but in addition to the RA for 15-30 are faculty in residence. No gatekeeping of majors. Divisions add sections when too many students need popular classes for the majors(calc, CS, chem) and sections stay relatively small. No one is shut out. Plenty of research opportunities for undergrads. More funding for undergrads than publics. Plus almost every student cares about learning and focuses on studies more than parties.
I had one at VT and two at different top10/ivy. It is very different at a big public.

[Anonymous]

Based on this post, I'm surprised that at a public university anyone can:

-Register for a class without camping outside the registrar's office for weeks
-Do research without bribing their way into a lab
-Navigate a campus without specialized GPS and wilderness survival training
-Find peers that care about learning rather than just partying
-Graduate with a desired major instead of settling for underwater basket weaving
-Graduate within the intended timeframe of this century

Apparently, public university students must possess superhuman determination just to overcome these insurmountable obstacles that private college students never face, thanks to those magical $60,000+ annual tuition payments that somehow eliminate all administrative hassles and provides a magical educational experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Based on this post, I'm surprised that at a public university anyone can:

-Register for a class without camping outside the registrar's office for weeks
-Do research without bribing their way into a lab
-Navigate a campus without specialized GPS and wilderness survival training
-Find peers that care about learning rather than just partying
-Graduate with a desired major instead of settling for underwater basket weaving
-Graduate within the intended timeframe of this century

Apparently, public university students must possess superhuman determination just to overcome these insurmountable obstacles that private college students never face, thanks to those magical $60,000+ annual tuition payments that somehow eliminate all administrative hassles and provides a magical educational experience.

lol