Top private vs public universities: quality of college experience and future job prospects

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t actually understand what parents see as the benefit of paying ooo for a school like Michigan. I get it’s a fun atmosphere but do you really think the academics and teaching are as good as a T20 private?
I understand going to a public if you are in state and / or getting merit. But I know people paying full price for these schools (UCs also) and that surprises me. Michigan is a lot more expensive than UMD or Pitt and I don’t understand what it offers in terms of quality of education for that price. I would prefer many lower ranked mid-sized private schools and LACs.

Well since you obviously worship USNWR rankings check this out:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching?_sort=rank&_sortDirection=asc

Michigan #14

Its PA score at USNWR is also among the top 20.

Michigan just does so many things well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Opinions on Michigan vs Northwestern? Something like poli sci/IR. Choose based on student preference, or is the larger Michigan alumni network a plus, as in, they're loyal and potentially useful to new grads?

Michigan obviously has the bigger alumni network, but Northwestern carries more weight with employers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t actually understand what parents see as the benefit of paying ooo for a school like Michigan. I get it’s a fun atmosphere but do you really think the academics and teaching are as good as a T20 private?
I understand going to a public if you are in state and / or getting merit. But I know people paying full price for these schools (UCs also) and that surprises me. Michigan is a lot more expensive than UMD or Pitt and I don’t understand what it offers in terms of quality of education for that price. I would prefer many lower ranked mid-sized private schools and LACs.

Well since you obviously worship USNWR rankings check this out:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching?_sort=rank&_sortDirection=asc

Michigan #14

Its PA score at USNWR is also among the top 20.

Michigan just does so many things well.

I don’t worship UNSWR at all. I would prefer a lower ranked school with a focus on teaching and learning. Most LACs and mid-sized schools care about undergrad teaching and I want my child to go to college primarily to learn. For the cost of Michigan oos I would much rather pay for a smaller private school. I am not saying I think large state schools are bad but if I could afford better I wouldn’t choose a large state school for undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t actually understand what parents see as the benefit of paying ooo for a school like Michigan. I get it’s a fun atmosphere but do you really think the academics and teaching are as good as a T20 private?
I understand going to a public if you are in state and / or getting merit. But I know people paying full price for these schools (UCs also) and that surprises me. Michigan is a lot more expensive than UMD or Pitt and I don’t understand what it offers in terms of quality of education for that price. I would prefer many lower ranked mid-sized private schools and LACs.

Well since you obviously worship USNWR rankings check this out:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching?_sort=rank&_sortDirection=asc

Michigan #14

Its PA score at USNWR is also among the top 20.

Michigan just does so many things well.

I don’t worship UNSWR at all. I would prefer a lower ranked school with a focus on teaching and learning. Most LACs and mid-sized schools care about undergrad teaching and I want my child to go to college primarily to learn. For the cost of Michigan oos I would much rather pay for a smaller private school. I am not saying I think large state schools are bad but if I could afford better I wouldn’t choose a large state school for undergrad.

What, exactly, do you think takes place at a large public school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t actually understand what parents see as the benefit of paying ooo for a school like Michigan. I get it’s a fun atmosphere but do you really think the academics and teaching are as good as a T20 private?
I understand going to a public if you are in state and / or getting merit. But I know people paying full price for these schools (UCs also) and that surprises me. Michigan is a lot more expensive than UMD or Pitt and I don’t understand what it offers in terms of quality of education for that price. I would prefer many lower ranked mid-sized private schools and LACs.

Great - send your kid to Syracuse and I’ll send mine OOS to Michigan.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Opinions on Michigan vs Northwestern? Something like poli sci/IR. Choose based on student preference, or is the larger Michigan alumni network a plus, as in, they're loyal and potentially useful to new grads?

As an (originally OOS) Michigan MBA grad, the Northwestern students and grads I have met are very similar types of people. Friendly, chill, smart, not elitist and yes, often Midwestern. I have read people saying that Northwestern kids are pointier and quirkier now due to admissions patterns. But you can decide if you think that matters. I gather the OOS students at Michigan are pretty similar from the bits of info I pick up.

My kid is an in-state freshman with a poli sci focus at Michigan and has had good conversations and encouragement from profs in his small and specialized classes. He is a serious and friendly student who regularly participates in class discussion. Profs like that. I don't think it would be going so well for a quiet kid who has to be drawn out.

I think Michigan has more of a tradition of public service careers and DC focus. Also tighter connections with some parts of Asia. I feel that it has been a globally connected school a lot longer than Northwestern.

Poli Sci and IR are not fully interchangeable. I'm curious about what area of IR is of interest. If your student has language and culture areas of interest, schools vary in strength related to that. I would also say that Michigan's best connections are to DC. I wouldn't necessarily pick Michigan to get a job at the UN in NYC, for example. But to go to the Peace Corps or eventually to the Foreign Service (I hear they like work experience first), Michigan would be a good choice.

Another observation...Michigan has a lot of really cool classes for people interested in the intersection of culture/history/politics, but they are not in the poli sci department. The IR classes to me look actually less mind-expanding than the ones that would be more history and area studies oriented. But that's a personal reaction. There certainly are enough courses to fill out a Poli Sci IR track as a sophomore-senior. I guess I'm more interested in why cultures and countries are the way they are than the exact structure of their governments, political parties, founding docs, etc.

I think students should carefully figure out what's different about the schools related to their specific interests. I think both schools are equal in many ways that make it too difficult to make a judgment here.

About size of alumni network...that is a very tertiary consideration right now. You should look at the prominence of alums in the desired fields, if anything. Sometimes small schools have stronger, tighter networks because there are fewer people and they know each other better. It's actually impossible to predict how that might play out for your kid unless you are looking at the level of "Is there an alumni club in City X" or my kid wants to work at X organization. Poke around on LinkedIn...that's the best most people can do.

It's my impression that foreign language classes beyond Spanish, French, and German are really losing ground in the US broadly across academe. So if your kid has a heritage language to perfect or an area studies interest, they need to factor that in to plans.

Be aware that IR may be a field, like Public Policy, where you get low-paid jobs out of college then need a Master's. Do look into the risks there. Obviously the whole institutional environment is in turmoil right now.

This is a good take. The breadth of courses and programs at a large school are a huge plus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Northwestern > Michigan? For undergraduate academics, generally, yes if similar price. Depends on program — e.g., not for aerospace engineering.

What about UM computer engineering vs Duke? Obviously UM is higher ranked for that, but Duke is Duke.

DC loves both schools and would be thrilled with either. I can’t speak to the computer engineering program, but I do know that housing is a big difference with these two schools.

Duke is very campus-oriented and requires its students to live on campus for 3 years with the option of moving off campus 4th year, though only a small minority do. In contrast, Michigan requires first years to live on campus, but then if I remember correctly, about half move off campus for second year, with many more following third and fourth year. Much of the housing is right off campus (walkable) but it seems to vary in terms of cost and convenience.

DH and I went to very campus-focused schools, but we saw that Michigan has an off-campus housing office to help, and a website with more information, too. So that might be worth checking out. But if your DC has a strong preference one way or another, this could be a big factor. (Duke does a great job with residential life - they make the transition to second year very easy. The whole thing seems remarkably smooth and positive.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t actually understand what parents see as the benefit of paying ooo for a school like Michigan. I get it’s a fun atmosphere but do you really think the academics and teaching are as good as a T20 private?
I understand going to a public if you are in state and / or getting merit. But I know people paying full price for these schools (UCs also) and that surprises me. Michigan is a lot more expensive than UMD or Pitt and I don’t understand what it offers in terms of quality of education for that price. I would prefer many lower ranked mid-sized private schools and LACs.

Yes, yes I do think the teaching is as good as at other top schools. Have a sense you've never set foot at Michigan. The opportunities are pretty amazing, students and alums resoundingly love the place and they are a huge, tight, very well-educated alum group. The stem programs are top notch. People are generally happy, hard-working and, importantly, not nuts. Super smart, well-adjusted, not nuts classmates should not be underrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are considering between OOS public university and top10 private university.
One of the common advices I received is that public universities will make it difficult for students to get a personal attention and care.
I'm curious how much this is true compared to private universities.
Also, another advice I received is that the brand name of the private university will make a difference in the career.
I can see this in the case of HYPSM but other top10-20 private schools do really have a brand name recognition and advantages?

Would you like your student to get tucked in at night?

An unreasonably high percentage of people here would unironically answer yes to this question.

Oh please, people are talking about being able to graduate in 4 years as they don’t have to fight for classes they need. Quality and personalized advising for med, law, grad school. Smaller class sizes where you can have closer relationships with profs for LOR, and so on.

These myths are constantly pushed on this forum. My kids attend large state schools, have had excellent advising, gotten the classes they need to graduate in four years, and have established relationships with professors who have written their LORs for internships, etc. It's clear you have no experience with a great public university, so you continue to push idiotic stereotypes.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think outcomes are often pretty similar—same job offers and salaries.

But I think the big difference is in the residential experience. On campus housing (and food) or apartment/self cooking with roommates. There are advantages to both but it seems like one of the differences btwn private and public schools.

For example UC Berkeley and Virginia Tech might has on campus housing for first year only.

Most universities only have on campus housing for first years, and then limited on campus housing after that. The vast majority of college students who aren't at LACs move off-campus after freshman year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Privates>Publics

This has and will always be the case. Yes, you will always have DCUMers that fight you on that because their kid is at a Public….Who cares.
Elite Privates will ALWAYS > then Publics….

The opportunities available to students at excellent publics far exceed those at small private schools. Not only the depth and breadth of available courses and majors, but organizations, clubs, intramurals, study abroad... the list goes on and on. Privates - elite or otherwise - just can't compare. They are generally stifling and insular. But do enjoy paying $90k for the "experience"!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are considering between OOS public university and top10 private university.
One of the common advices I received is that public universities will make it difficult for students to get a personal attention and care.
I'm curious how much this is true compared to private universities.
Also, another advice I received is that the brand name of the private university will make a difference in the career.
I can see this in the case of HYPSM but other top10-20 private schools do really have a brand name recognition and advantages?

Would you like your student to get tucked in at night?

An unreasonably high percentage of people here would unironically answer yes to this question.

Oh please, people are talking about being able to graduate in 4 years as they don’t have to fight for classes they need. Quality and personalized advising for med, law, grad school. Smaller class sizes where you can have closer relationships with profs for LOR, and so on.

These myths are constantly pushed on this forum. My kids attend large state schools, have had excellent advising, gotten the classes they need to graduate in four years, and have established relationships with professors who have written their LORs for internships, etc. It's clear you have no experience with a great public university, so you continue to push idiotic stereotypes.
DP

My favorite thing about the “graduate in 4 years” BS is that we actually have the data on it. And it shows us that 1) the vast majority of these kids are graduating in four years and 2) top publics tend to do really well, and certainly no worse, than top privates. UVA is number 2 overall at 92%. UNC and UCLA the same as Chicago and Tufts at 86%. Michigan and Florida the same as MIT at 82%. Cal the same as USC at 81%. All of them higher than Brown, Princeton, Cal Tech, Williams, and a whole slate of others.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are considering between OOS public university and top10 private university.
One of the common advices I received is that public universities will make it difficult for students to get a personal attention and care.
I'm curious how much this is true compared to private universities.
Also, another advice I received is that the brand name of the private university will make a difference in the career.
I can see this in the case of HYPSM but other top10-20 private schools do really have a brand name recognition and advantages?

Would you like your student to get tucked in at night?

An unreasonably high percentage of people here would unironically answer yes to this question.

Oh please, people are talking about being able to graduate in 4 years as they don’t have to fight for classes they need. Quality and personalized advising for med, law, grad school. Smaller class sizes where you can have closer relationships with profs for LOR, and so on.

THis 1000%

The perks of a smaller private university are huge. Not having to fight for the courses you want/need, great advising and advisors that know your student.

For ex: my kid was at a T100. Spent 1 year in Major X, then needed to switch. The "main advisor for Major X/School X" only knew my kid for less than 1 year, as they helped my kid figure out how to switch majors in April of Freshman year (on the day of Registration, 2 hours before reg none the less--so under intense pressure). That Advisor saw us at graduation and came over to talk. They knew my kid's name and remembered what major they were switching to. This isn't a school with 2k students, it's a school with about 8K undergrads.

That's what some of us want for our kids. When you have an ADHD kid, Anxiety ridden kid with Zero EF (except what you have trained them in), sometimes we and our kids know they need a bit extra care. The benefits of providing that means they excel in life.

I hear you. Intuitively, it makes sense. But do you have numbers to show this to be the case, as we look at student outcomes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t actually understand what parents see as the benefit of paying ooo for a school like Michigan. I get it’s a fun atmosphere but do you really think the academics and teaching are as good as a T20 private?
I understand going to a public if you are in state and / or getting merit. But I know people paying full price for these schools (UCs also) and that surprises me. Michigan is a lot more expensive than UMD or Pitt and I don’t understand what it offers in terms of quality of education for that price. I would prefer many lower ranked mid-sized private schools and LACs.

Well since you obviously worship USNWR rankings check this out:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching?_sort=rank&_sortDirection=asc

Michigan #14

Its PA score at USNWR is also among the top 20.

Michigan just does so many things well.

I don’t worship UNSWR at all. I would prefer a lower ranked school with a focus on teaching and learning. Most LACs and mid-sized schools care about undergrad teaching and I want my child to go to college primarily to learn. For the cost of Michigan oos I would much rather pay for a smaller private school. I am not saying I think large state schools are bad but if I could afford better I wouldn’t choose a large state school for undergrad.

So tell me, how did you determine what a, “top 20 private” is? After all, you were the one who brought it up. Then you had the temerity to compare Michigan to schools that are not at its academic level like Pittsburgh and UMD. I know it’s hard to believe for some of the naysayers here on DCUM, but not all large public schools are equal and alike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Northwestern > Michigan? For undergraduate academics, generally, yes if similar price. Depends on program — e.g., not for aerospace engineering.

What about UM computer engineering vs Duke? Obviously UM is higher ranked for that, but Duke is Duke.

DC loves both schools and would be thrilled with either. I can’t speak to the computer engineering program, but I do know that housing is a big difference with these two schools.

Duke is very campus-oriented and requires its students to live on campus for 3 years with the option of moving off campus 4th year, though only a small minority do. In contrast, Michigan requires first years to live on campus, but then if I remember correctly, about half move off campus for second year, with many more following third and fourth year. Much of the housing is right off campus (walkable) but it seems to vary in terms of cost and convenience.

DH and I went to very campus-focused schools, but we saw that Michigan has an off-campus housing office to help, and a website with more information, too. So that might be worth checking out. But if your DC has a strong preference one way or another, this could be a big factor. (Duke does a great job with residential life - they make the transition to second year very easy. The whole thing seems remarkably smooth and positive.)

Ann Arbor as a city is much more desirable than Durham and the central campus is integrated right into the city. Oftentimes private housing is more convenient to classrooms than university ones. Hard to compare this dynamic.