Teach Your Children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious posters. Just stop. You're peddling nothing more than a giant pile of horsesh*t.

The OP's child dealt with your intolerant lot and emotionally upset that child.

Which is causing more harm - making a kid cry by bullying them for not believing in bronze age myths, your lame BS about wanting to save their non-existent soul? What if the kid identified as Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, or Hindu?

Would the kid have had the same right to bully the other kid?

As has been repeated ad naseum in this forum, if you want to believe, be the moron that you are, but for those that don't, leave them the f*ck alone.

OP's child bullied mine for praying silently alone at lunch. So whatever. Too bad, so sad.

If my child bullies anyone, I'll be the first to be embarrassed and to discipline them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious posters. Just stop. You're peddling nothing more than a giant pile of horsesh*t.

The OP's child dealt with your intolerant lot and emotionally upset that child.

Which is causing more harm - making a kid cry by bullying them for not believing in bronze age myths, your lame BS about wanting to save their non-existent soul? What if the kid identified as Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, or Hindu?

Would the kid have had the same right to bully the other kid?

As has been repeated ad naseum in this forum, if you want to believe, be the moron that you are, but for those that don't, leave them the f*ck alone.

OP's child bullied mine for praying silently alone at lunch. So whatever. Too bad, so sad.

Don’t be obnoxious.
OP’s child hasn’t bullied yours.
I have no doubt someone’s child may have teased him about making a spectacle of praying in public—but OP doesn’t seem like she would be encouraging her kid to lead the charge on bullying.

[Anonymous]

OP and supporters only have a problem with Christians sharing their faith.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for your compassion. It really upset me to see my child hurting.

I’m ok with people having their beliefs. All I want is for them to be ok with mine. Children are sponges and repeat what they hear. I’d love for them to hear a message of kindness, not of intolerance, no matter the belief system.

Agree with the prior poster that the world will tell us that it is an act of “kindness” to say nothing as a sign of respect.
But GOD tells us that the ultimate act of Godly kindness is to share the news of the Gospel so that whomever hears and receives it will have everlasting life and be saved.

For me and for many, it’s hard to go against the conventional secular wisdom that kindness = MYOB, but The Bible is pretty clear that Satan wants us to MYOB and not bring any more followers to Christ.

I hope you're not giving yourself permission to be cruel to children. That's what it sounds like.

Cruelty is obviously a relative term here in this thread.
The ultimate cruelty IMO is claiming to be someone’s friend while quietly and politely remaining silent when your words could set them on the path to salvation. How cruel to know your friend is not saved and yet stand by and say/do nothing to offer a path to salvation.

This post is EXACTLY why there can never be a middle ground, a compromise. Many christians (especially evangelicals) live in a completely different world than others. They see it as a GOOD thing, while others (myself included) not only don't believe it, but feel that it's abusive to say these things to a child. My child, at the age of 8, was told if he didn't get "saved" by saying the magic words about jesus, would burn in a lake of fire for all eternity. This was done at a (previously) trusted friend's home, and she was told not to mention it to her parents because it was just between her and god. She was shown pictures of this lake of fire. She believed it, and although she is 14 now, she can't get the images out of her head.
I consider it abuse. They (and PP apparently) consider it a loving act.

They WON'T mind their business, because they see it as their business, they see it as loving, they see it as a command from the ever loving creator of the universe. I've even been told it would be disrespectful to ask them to stop evangelizing because I would then be disrespecting THEIR beliefs.

We live in different worlds...although I wish that was literal. I have no desire to inhabit any space in which there are people with beliefs so counter to humanity and with people that don't even believe they are allowed to keep that crap to themselves.

I do not wish this for you at all. But sadly yes, I do believe this is not yet literal but it will be.

You're so kind lol. And brainwashed.

I’m remarkably okay with your opinion of me in this. And will continue to share and pray for others at the same time as I confess my sins, repent, and follow Christ daily.

And I'll continue to feel superior because Jesus tells me to. He and I walk together everyday, while I'm confessing my sins and repenting, constantly, just like Jesus wants me to. How do I know all of this? I read it in the Bible, a book written a gazillion years ago by multiple authors, and I believe it. Sorry -- but I do and God tells me that I must bother people IRL and on line every chance I get. It will help get me into heaven and it makes me feel superior.

You clearly don't even understand your own book:

James 4:6 – "But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, 'God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.'"

Isaiah 2:11-12 – "The eyes of the arrogant will be humbled and human pride brought low; the Lord alone will be exalted in that day."

Luke 14:11 – "For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."

Proverbs 8:13 – "To fear the Lord is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech."

Romans 12:3 – "For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you."

Not sure who these other two posters are here, but neither is me, and I’m the one who has been offering the perspective that the child who offended OP’s ch kid likely was not trying to “bully” but is simply expressing concern for a friend (albeit clumsily) out of love and his hold-like understanding that Jesus saves and he wants his friend to be saved too.

This was in response to the poster who said, "I'll continue to feel superior because Jesus tells me to". Feel superior = arrogance, pride.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
that it’s rude to talk about religion. No, little Johnny, it is not “bad” that my son doesn’t believe in Jesus. Isn’t it interesting, though, that in our atheist household I teach my children that all religions as well as lack of them are equally fine and that we all choose our own motivations to be good and kind, yet Johnny’s parents/pastors/whoever teach him to shame those that don’t walk their walk? Which one of us is being kind to our neighbor? Interesting how it works… Thanks for making my child cry and feel less than. Maybe it’s time for you to have a talk as a family about the freedom to believe or NOT believe anything in this country (constitutional by the way) and what it actually means to be kind. Or at least let them know it’s simply rude to talk about religion. Would be much appreciated. P.S. Religious bullying is bullying.

Thank you for articulating this, OP.
I think it helps to attempt to understand the perspective of the other person.

And I think if you also stop to consider the other person’s perspective, it might help you to reframe your anger into something resembling compassion and even an odd sense of thankfulness for the heart of your child’s friend in that he obviously cares for your son or he would just “leave it alone” and say nothing.

I don’t think he intends to be “bullying” at all. But if a Christian truly believes what they profess to believe—which is that the only way to be with the Father in heaven is through relationship with Jesus Christ who died for our sins to take the punishment we all justly deserve FOR us in our place, then he believes this is true for his friend too—and he doesn’t want your friend to be left behind simply because he didn’t care enough to share with him and express concern.

So what you argue is “bullying” I would offer is an expression of true concern and attempt to rescue from a fate that no one would choose for their worst enemy—let alone a friend—which is eternal separation from God.

Using a different scenario for analogy, if the field behind your home were burning, and you were in imminent danger of being consumed by the fire—and I were to notice that you had no fire extinguishers or running water or hydrants and you didn’t know about the fire department or refused to contact them because you felt it was unnecessary….I wouldn’t be a very good friend if I just shrugged and watched your house and your family burn without attempting to help or call someone at the fire department to intervene.
You still may not listen and you still may refuse help—arguing that you’ll be fine and the fire is not a real threat. Which, of course, you are free to do.
But I don’t think you’d be sorry (and I certainly would not) if my efforts to get help or speak up actually wound up leading to action that eventually saved your home and family.
This is the mindset of a Christian.
Sometimes you must risk offending even (and especially!) those you dearly love on the chance that a greater good is possible to achieve—and it may only plant a seed….but in the end it’s worth the risk if the alternative is way worse.

Your child’s friend may appear brainwashed to you. And you argue that it’s rude and unkind for him to share his beliefs with your child.
But I argue that it would be rude and unkind for him NOT to if this is his true belief.
And to that friend, your child appears doomed. And he cares enough to want to reverse that.
It might infuriate you—but his heart is FOR your son, not against him.

NP and this was well articulated.
OP, I’d take this example and just help your kid view the friend with a sense of condescending compassion, as you might with someone who doesn’t understand the world is round and who is warning you not to fall off the edge.
Since you are not a believer, this should be easy enough to frame for him
In the sense that “He means well, but bless his heart, he is trapped in this belief system that is giving him anxiety for you. Lets just smile and nod and say thank you for your concern, Larlo—now let’s go play video games”

Maybe well articulated, but sh*t compressed into a ball and polished until shiny is still sh*t. Proselytizing doesn't belong in schools, nor should it be attempted by a indoctrinated minor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP and supporters only have a problem with Christians sharing their faith.

If it were only them sharing the faith, I doubt the kid would have been tears. Good job ignoring the bullying aspect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
that it’s rude to talk about religion. No, little Johnny, it is not “bad” that my son doesn’t believe in Jesus. Isn’t it interesting, though, that in our atheist household I teach my children that all religions as well as lack of them are equally fine and that we all choose our own motivations to be good and kind, yet Johnny’s parents/pastors/whoever teach him to shame those that don’t walk their walk? Which one of us is being kind to our neighbor? Interesting how it works… Thanks for making my child cry and feel less than. Maybe it’s time for you to have a talk as a family about the freedom to believe or NOT believe anything in this country (constitutional by the way) and what it actually means to be kind. Or at least let them know it’s simply rude to talk about religion. Would be much appreciated. P.S. Religious bullying is bullying.

The bolded is literally not true, unless you honestly believe that, say, Episcopalianism is no different from the Apostolic United Brethren, in which case...you need some serious help.

Stop. You know what OP was saying. She was encouraging compassion and tolerance and wishing the mini-zealot had learned the same from his religious community.

And personally, I have no idea what the difference is between the two groups you mentioned. Nor am I interested in finding out. I am a cultural Catholic and know there are fundamentalist factions in every religion. I prefer to generally wish everyone well in their faith of choicei, or non-faith. I entirely support OP's point of view.

Now see, to me, as a fellow believer, this reads as selfish on your part, PP. You know the Truth and yet you want to keep it to yourself and for yourself because it’s more important for you to be seen as tolerant than it is for you to have a hand in bringing hearts to Christ and sharing in His kingdom.
I can understand why OP feels this way as a NON-believer, but I have zero understanding of how a believer can justify guy hiding their light and just “wishing everyone the best” when your faith and convictions tell you unequivocally that “the best” is not a possible outcome for a NON-believer

Why do you need to justify anything to anyone? No one wants to listen to you preach and push your religion on others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP and supporters only have a problem with Christians sharing their faith.

Most other religions don't try to convert others.

[Anonymous]

The Christian posters on here should practice actually acting like Jesus and be tolerant, kind, and empathetic instead of arrogant bigots.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I disagree with OP. Your children shouldn't be so weak that any discussion of other views brings them to tears. I think it is fine for kids to be discussing religion. Let them discuss, debate, and come to their own views.

I suspect that a free exchange of thoughts and a rational discussion will lead to many more atheists, not fewer...

I agree that rational debate will lead to many more atheists, but I don't think kids should be debating religion in public school. I think OP and all parents should teach their kids to avoid discussions of religion in public school.

But they can't stop and they won't stop. Because their god tells them to, and because they love us so much they don't want to see us burn in hell...etc etc etc. That's why there is no middle ground. Their beliefs set them on a different plane and those beliefs REQUIRE them to inject them into others, and people are disrespectful of those beliefs if we don't allow it. It's a true Mind F...

And it's also why atheists continue to try to lead people to rationality, humanity, true unconditional love, kindness, logic, critical thinking, etc. My hope is that one day there will be no more kids indoctrinated into a Bronze Age belief system that causes the mind to warp and the heart to become hardened to THIS life as the only one we will get instead of hurting people in this lifetime because of the belief of a life AFTER this one.

Bravo!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with OP. Your children shouldn't be so weak that any discussion of other views brings them to tears. I think it is fine for kids to be discussing religion. Let them discuss, debate, and come to their own views.

I suspect that a free exchange of thoughts and a rational discussion will lead to many more atheists, not fewer...

I agree that rational debate will lead to many more atheists, but I don't think kids should be debating religion in public school. I think OP and all parents should teach their kids to avoid discussions of religion in public school.

But they can't stop and they won't stop. Because their god tells them to, and because they love us so much they don't want to see us burn in hell...etc etc etc. That's why there is no middle ground. Their beliefs set them on a different plane and those beliefs REQUIRE them to inject them into others, and people are disrespectful of those beliefs if we don't allow it. It's a true Mind F...

And it's also why atheists continue to try to lead people to rationality, humanity, true unconditional love, kindness, logic, critical thinking, etc. My hope is that one day there will be no more kids indoctrinated into a Bronze Age belief system that causes the mind to warp and the heart to become hardened to THIS life as the only one we will get instead of hurting people in this lifetime because of the belief of a life AFTER this one.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this viewpoint about convincing people that there is no life beyond this one is Satan’s hope, too.
So I will spend my life on earth working against this goal that you have, while showing love to others and praising God for His gift of salvation and teaching my children and my children’s children to worship Him.

Atheists don't believe in Satan and even many Christians don't believe that Satan has the hopes that you say he has. I certainly didn't, when I was Christian. And I don't know of anyone who did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
that it’s rude to talk about religion. No, little Johnny, it is not “bad” that my son doesn’t believe in Jesus. Isn’t it interesting, though, that in our atheist household I teach my children that all religions as well as lack of them are equally fine and that we all choose our own motivations to be good and kind, yet Johnny’s parents/pastors/whoever teach him to shame those that don’t walk their walk? Which one of us is being kind to our neighbor? Interesting how it works… Thanks for making my child cry and feel less than. Maybe it’s time for you to have a talk as a family about the freedom to believe or NOT believe anything in this country (constitutional by the way) and what it actually means to be kind. Or at least let them know it’s simply rude to talk about religion. Would be much appreciated. P.S. Religious bullying is bullying.

Thank you for articulating this, OP.
I think it helps to attempt to understand the perspective of the other person.

And I think if you also stop to consider the other person’s perspective, it might help you to reframe your anger into something resembling compassion and even an odd sense of thankfulness for the heart of your child’s friend in that he obviously cares for your son or he would just “leave it alone” and say nothing.

I don’t think he intends to be “bullying” at all. But if a Christian truly believes what they profess to believe—which is that the only way to be with the Father in heaven is through relationship with Jesus Christ who died for our sins to take the punishment we all justly deserve FOR us in our place, then he believes this is true for his friend too—and he doesn’t want your friend to be left behind simply because he didn’t care enough to share with him and express concern.

So what you argue is “bullying” I would offer is an expression of true concern and attempt to rescue from a fate that no one would choose for their worst enemy—let alone a friend—which is eternal separation from God.

Using a different scenario for analogy, if the field behind your home were burning, and you were in imminent danger of being consumed by the fire—and I were to notice that you had no fire extinguishers or running water or hydrants and you didn’t know about the fire department or refused to contact them because you felt it was unnecessary….I wouldn’t be a very good friend if I just shrugged and watched your house and your family burn without attempting to help or call someone at the fire department to intervene.
You still may not listen and you still may refuse help—arguing that you’ll be fine and the fire is not a real threat. Which, of course, you are free to do.
But I don’t think you’d be sorry (and I certainly would not) if my efforts to get help or speak up actually wound up leading to action that eventually saved your home and family.
This is the mindset of a Christian.
Sometimes you must risk offending even (and especially!) those you dearly love on the chance that a greater good is possible to achieve—and it may only plant a seed….but in the end it’s worth the risk if the alternative is way worse.

Your child’s friend may appear brainwashed to you. And you argue that it’s rude and unkind for him to share his beliefs with your child.
But I argue that it would be rude and unkind for him NOT to if this is his true belief.
And to that friend, your child appears doomed. And he cares enough to want to reverse that.
It might infuriate you—but his heart is FOR your son, not against him.

NP and this was well articulated.
OP, I’d take this example and just help your kid view the friend with a sense of condescending compassion, as you might with someone who doesn’t understand the world is round and who is warning you not to fall off the edge.
Since you are not a believer, this should be easy enough to frame for him
In the sense that “He means well, but bless his heart, he is trapped in this belief system that is giving him anxiety for you. Lets just smile and nod and say thank you for your concern, Larlo—now let’s go play video games”

Atheists don't say "bless your heart" and the offender should not be thanked for anything.

[Anonymous]

This thread sure brought out all the crazed Christians, didn't it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Christian posters on here should practice actually acting like Jesus and be tolerant, kind, and empathetic instead of arrogant bigots.

But, I think there's something the Bible about being an arrogant bigot for Christ. There must be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Christian posters on here should practice actually acting like Jesus and be tolerant, kind, and empathetic instead of arrogant bigots.

But, I think there's something the Bible about being an arrogant bigot for Christ. There must be.

Yes, I think there is...although it's not worded like that lol. It's INHERENT in the belief system. It's insidious.

I have delved deep into the psychology of belief, the psychology of cults, the psychology of indoctrination. Just a note: this was done as an amateur, but I have spent the last 2 years reading and learning due to the intrusion and harm perpetrated on my family from a christian evangelical family. Indoctrination literally hijacks the brain. It hijacks the prefrontal cortex. It uses fear as a motivator. You know those beautiful christian hymns? Most religious music helps the manipulation in order to make people more susceptible. The same goes for any chanting, humming, etc.
There are also the tactics of coercive control and collective narcissism at play (also insidious...very hard to tease out from the "good" messages people walk away with)
There is a lot to learn, and I've unfortunately had to become an expert. I've met with religious trauma therapists for my children that were harmed, I've met with cult deprogrammers, I've read dozens of books from the top experts in these fields.

Not all christians are intrusive, and I applaud the ones that use the religion to make them better human beings, and the ones that just spread love as that is their takeaway from all of it. However, I do believe it is still ALL harmful in many many ways, even for those like that that never technically hurt anyone else.

If nothing else, look at how much time is wasted just on this board alone because Jesus had a very good marketing team and his name was used to create an entire belief system, then that belief system was forced on a lot of people under threat of death, so that the next generations never had a chance to NOT believe. And it snowballed from there to where we are today.

You know what it feels like to be wrong? It feels the exact same way as being right.

Prove me wrong and I will believe there is a god and a Jesus. But I will never worship them as their doctrine goes against everything I feel in my heart as a human being.