Teach Your Children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for your compassion. It really upset me to see my child hurting.

I’m ok with people having their beliefs. All I want is for them to be ok with mine. Children are sponges and repeat what they hear. I’d love for them to hear a message of kindness, not of intolerance, no matter the belief system.

Agree with the prior poster that the world will tell us that it is an act of “kindness” to say nothing as a sign of respect.
But GOD tells us that the ultimate act of Godly kindness is to share the news of the Gospel so that whomever hears and receives it will have everlasting life and be saved.

For me and for many, it’s hard to go against the conventional secular wisdom that kindness = MYOB, but The Bible is pretty clear that Satan wants us to MYOB and not bring any more followers to Christ.

I hope you're not giving yourself permission to be cruel to children. That's what it sounds like.

Cruelty is obviously a relative term here in this thread.
The ultimate cruelty IMO is claiming to be someone’s friend while quietly and politely remaining silent when your words could set them on the path to salvation. How cruel to know your friend is not saved and yet stand by and say/do nothing to offer a path to salvation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
that it’s rude to talk about religion. No, little Johnny, it is not “bad” that my son doesn’t believe in Jesus. Isn’t it interesting, though, that in our atheist household I teach my children that all religions as well as lack of them are equally fine and that we all choose our own motivations to be good and kind, yet Johnny’s parents/pastors/whoever teach him to shame those that don’t walk their walk? Which one of us is being kind to our neighbor? Interesting how it works… Thanks for making my child cry and feel less than. Maybe it’s time for you to have a talk as a family about the freedom to believe or NOT believe anything in this country (constitutional by the way) and what it actually means to be kind. Or at least let them know it’s simply rude to talk about religion. Would be much appreciated. P.S. Religious bullying is bullying.

Thank you for articulating this, OP.
I think it helps to attempt to understand the perspective of the other person.

And I think if you also stop to consider the other person’s perspective, it might help you to reframe your anger into something resembling compassion and even an odd sense of thankfulness for the heart of your child’s friend in that he obviously cares for your son or he would just “leave it alone” and say nothing.

I don’t think he intends to be “bullying” at all. But if a Christian truly believes what they profess to believe—which is that the only way to be with the Father in heaven is through relationship with Jesus Christ who died for our sins to take the punishment we all justly deserve FOR us in our place, then he believes this is true for his friend too—and he doesn’t want your friend to be left behind simply because he didn’t care enough to share with him and express concern.

So what you argue is “bullying” I would offer is an expression of true concern and attempt to rescue from a fate that no one would choose for their worst enemy—let alone a friend—which is eternal separation from God.

Using a different scenario for analogy, if the field behind your home were burning, and you were in imminent danger of being consumed by the fire—and I were to notice that you had no fire extinguishers or running water or hydrants and you didn’t know about the fire department or refused to contact them because you felt it was unnecessary….I wouldn’t be a very good friend if I just shrugged and watched your house and your family burn without attempting to help or call someone at the fire department to intervene.
You still may not listen and you still may refuse help—arguing that you’ll be fine and the fire is not a real threat. Which, of course, you are free to do.
But I don’t think you’d be sorry (and I certainly would not) if my efforts to get help or speak up actually wound up leading to action that eventually saved your home and family.
This is the mindset of a Christian.
Sometimes you must risk offending even (and especially!) those you dearly love on the chance that a greater good is possible to achieve—and it may only plant a seed….but in the end it’s worth the risk if the alternative is way worse.

Your child’s friend may appear brainwashed to you. And you argue that it’s rude and unkind for him to share his beliefs with your child.
But I argue that it would be rude and unkind for him NOT to if this is his true belief.
And to that friend, your child appears doomed. And he cares enough to want to reverse that.
It might infuriate you—but his heart is FOR your son, not against him.

Sorry -- if the kid came home in tears, it was bullying even if the Christian kid didn't mean to. THEY SHOULD BE TAUGHT NOT TO APPROACH KIDS ABOUT RELIGION IN PUBLIC SCHOOL.

[Anonymous]

OP, you can only teach your child. You can not expect others not to talk about religion. You also can not tell others not to curse, not to use the n word, etc. Again, you can only parent your child. With that being said, you have to also teach your child that they may encounter others that do not belief as they do. Talk to your child about what they can do in those situations. By the way, I do not believe but I think it is ridiculous to expect others not to speak of religion due to hurting other peoples feelings or beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Kids parrot what they learn from parents and in their house of faith. When I was a kid, my Baptist neighbor told me (an Episcopalian) was going to hell. They didn't believe other denominations could go to heaven.

I went home and asked my mom. She explained that different religions believe different things. Simple as that.

While it would be nice if kids had evolved social skills, they don't. I think it's more effective to teach your kid how to address those comments. Don't rely on other parents for anything. And in the case of religion, they'd probably just side with their kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for your compassion. It really upset me to see my child hurting.

I’m ok with people having their beliefs. All I want is for them to be ok with mine. Children are sponges and repeat what they hear. I’d love for them to hear a message of kindness, not of intolerance, no matter the belief system.

Agree with the prior poster that the world will tell us that it is an act of “kindness” to say nothing as a sign of respect.
But GOD tells us that the ultimate act of Godly kindness is to share the news of the Gospel so that whomever hears and receives it will have everlasting life and be saved.

For me and for many, it’s hard to go against the conventional secular wisdom that kindness = MYOB, but The Bible is pretty clear that Satan wants us to MYOB and not bring any more followers to Christ.

What if Satan has tricked YOU, and this is the opposite of what God wants?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for your compassion. It really upset me to see my child hurting.

I’m ok with people having their beliefs. All I want is for them to be ok with mine. Children are sponges and repeat what they hear. I’d love for them to hear a message of kindness, not of intolerance, no matter the belief system.

Agree with the prior poster that the world will tell us that it is an act of “kindness” to say nothing as a sign of respect.
But GOD tells us that the ultimate act of Godly kindness is to share the news of the Gospel so that whomever hears and receives it will have everlasting life and be saved.

For me and for many, it’s hard to go against the conventional secular wisdom that kindness = MYOB, but The Bible is pretty clear that Satan wants us to MYOB and not bring any more followers to Christ.

I hope you're not giving yourself permission to be cruel to children. That's what it sounds like.

Cruelty is obviously a relative term here in this thread.
The ultimate cruelty IMO is claiming to be someone’s friend while quietly and politely remaining silent when your words could set them on the path to salvation. How cruel to know your friend is not saved and yet stand by and say/do nothing to offer a path to salvation.

It's cruel to believers only. There is disagreement about cruelty which children who attend public school should learn about before they criticize anyone's religious belief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I taught my kids to never discuss religion with anyone. If asked, just say “my religion is private” and change the subject. We live in a multiethnic and diverse society. Kids should not be talking about religion!

That’s fine for your house.
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
And the Bible instructs Christians to go and be fishers of men. This is a major tenet of the Christian faith.
Now how this is accomplished is absolutely up for debate. Some believe living by example is just fine—that they will know Christians by what we do in love and then will choose to follow Christ.
Some (more evangelical) denominations insist that no—the directive is more literal and the conversation must be had and evidence of Christ shared through direct conversation.

But either way, the “whatever works for you” approach is not Biblical at all.

So do what your religion instructs you to do. But just know that Christians are explicitly instructed to share their faith so that ALL may choose to walk in the light of Christ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for your compassion. It really upset me to see my child hurting.

I’m ok with people having their beliefs. All I want is for them to be ok with mine. Children are sponges and repeat what they hear. I’d love for them to hear a message of kindness, not of intolerance, no matter the belief system.

Agree with the prior poster that the world will tell us that it is an act of “kindness” to say nothing as a sign of respect.
But GOD tells us that the ultimate act of Godly kindness is to share the news of the Gospel so that whomever hears and receives it will have everlasting life and be saved.

For me and for many, it’s hard to go against the conventional secular wisdom that kindness = MYOB, but The Bible is pretty clear that Satan wants us to MYOB and not bring any more followers to Christ.

I hope you're not giving yourself permission to be cruel to children. That's what it sounds like.

Cruelty is obviously a relative term here in this thread.
The ultimate cruelty IMO is claiming to be someone’s friend while quietly and politely remaining silent when your words could set them on the path to salvation. How cruel to know your friend is not saved and yet stand by and say/do nothing to offer a path to salvation.

It's cruel to believers only. There is disagreement about cruelty which children who attend public school should learn about before they criticize anyone's religious belief.

Silly—the law applies to the GOVERNMENT (meaning teachers or employees of the state) not requiring a religion OR interfering with ann individua’s efforts to practice a religion.
It does not apply to the freedom of any individual to share one’s own religion with peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for your compassion. It really upset me to see my child hurting.

I’m ok with people having their beliefs. All I want is for them to be ok with mine. Children are sponges and repeat what they hear. I’d love for them to hear a message of kindness, not of intolerance, no matter the belief system.

Agree with the prior poster that the world will tell us that it is an act of “kindness” to say nothing as a sign of respect.
But GOD tells us that the ultimate act of Godly kindness is to share the news of the Gospel so that whomever hears and receives it will have everlasting life and be saved.

For me and for many, it’s hard to go against the conventional secular wisdom that kindness = MYOB, but The Bible is pretty clear that Satan wants us to MYOB and not bring any more followers to Christ.

What if Satan has tricked YOU, and this is the opposite of what God wants?

Satan is always always attempting to trick believers so in theory this is possible—and in practice, depending on the approach, it can definitely backfire in the way that it HELPS Satan (which it sounds like it probably will/has in OP’s case and for others who are in OPs position)….so like another poster said, a lot depends on the approach because you can easily end up running people off by what is said rather than encouraging people toward discipleship.
Either way, I rely on scripture and prayer to guide and on repentance and grace when I misstep—which is daily, just like everyone else who are sinners. And I encourage everyone else to do the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for your compassion. It really upset me to see my child hurting.

I’m ok with people having their beliefs. All I want is for them to be ok with mine. Children are sponges and repeat what they hear. I’d love for them to hear a message of kindness, not of intolerance, no matter the belief system.

Agree with the prior poster that the world will tell us that it is an act of “kindness” to say nothing as a sign of respect.
But GOD tells us that the ultimate act of Godly kindness is to share the news of the Gospel so that whomever hears and receives it will have everlasting life and be saved.

For me and for many, it’s hard to go against the conventional secular wisdom that kindness = MYOB, but The Bible is pretty clear that Satan wants us to MYOB and not bring any more followers to Christ.

I hope you're not giving yourself permission to be cruel to children. That's what it sounds like.

Cruelty is obviously a relative term here in this thread.
The ultimate cruelty IMO is claiming to be someone’s friend while quietly and politely remaining silent when your words could set them on the path to salvation. How cruel to know your friend is not saved and yet stand by and say/do nothing to offer a path to salvation.

This post is EXACTLY why there can never be a middle ground, a compromise. Many christians (especially evangelicals) live in a completely different world than others. They see it as a GOOD thing, while others (myself included) not only don't believe it, but feel that it's abusive to say these things to a child. My child, at the age of 8, was told if he didn't get "saved" by saying the magic words about jesus, would burn in a lake of fire for all eternity. This was done at a (previously) trusted friend's home, and she was told not to mention it to her parents because it was just between her and god. She was shown pictures of this lake of fire. She believed it, and although she is 14 now, she can't get the images out of her head.
I consider it abuse. They (and PP apparently) consider it a loving act.

They WON'T mind their business, because they see it as their business, they see it as loving, they see it as a command from the ever loving creator of the universe. I've even been told it would be disrespectful to ask them to stop evangelizing because I would then be disrespecting THEIR beliefs.

We live in different worlds...although I wish that was literal. I have no desire to inhabit any space in which there are people with beliefs so counter to humanity and with people that don't even believe they are allowed to keep that crap to themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
that it’s rude to talk about religion. No, little Johnny, it is not “bad” that my son doesn’t believe in Jesus. Isn’t it interesting, though, that in our atheist household I teach my children that all religions as well as lack of them are equally fine and that we all choose our own motivations to be good and kind, yet Johnny’s parents/pastors/whoever teach him to shame those that don’t walk their walk? Which one of us is being kind to our neighbor? Interesting how it works… Thanks for making my child cry and feel less than. Maybe it’s time for you to have a talk as a family about the freedom to believe or NOT believe anything in this country (constitutional by the way) and what it actually means to be kind. Or at least let them know it’s simply rude to talk about religion. Would be much appreciated. P.S. Religious bullying is bullying.

The bolded is literally not true, unless you honestly believe that, say, Episcopalianism is no different from the Apostolic United Brethren, in which case...you need some serious help.

Stop. You know what OP was saying. She was encouraging compassion and tolerance and wishing the mini-zealot had learned the same from his religious community.

And personally, I have no idea what the difference is between the two groups you mentioned. Nor am I interested in finding out. I am a cultural Catholic and know there are fundamentalist factions in every religion. I prefer to generally wish everyone well in their faith of choice, or non-faith. I entirely support OP's point of view.

No, I really do not know what she is saying beyond what she actually said. Not all religions are equal, though I suspect she knows this and is teaching her child otherwise so they will think all Christians are akin to FLDS or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
that it’s rude to talk about religion. No, little Johnny, it is not “bad” that my son doesn’t believe in Jesus. Isn’t it interesting, though, that in our atheist household I teach my children that all religions as well as lack of them are equally fine and that we all choose our own motivations to be good and kind, yet Johnny’s parents/pastors/whoever teach him to shame those that don’t walk their walk? Which one of us is being kind to our neighbor? Interesting how it works… Thanks for making my child cry and feel less than. Maybe it’s time for you to have a talk as a family about the freedom to believe or NOT believe anything in this country (constitutional by the way) and what it actually means to be kind. Or at least let them know it’s simply rude to talk about religion. Would be much appreciated. P.S. Religious bullying is bullying.

The bolded is literally not true, unless you honestly believe that, say, Episcopalianism is no different from the Apostolic United Brethren, in which case...you need some serious help.

pp needs serious help for questioning OP's obvious motives.

Oh, her motives are clear! It's just that none of you have figured them out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you can only teach your child. You can not expect others not to talk about religion. You also can not tell others not to curse, not to use the n word, etc. Again, you can only parent your child. With that being said, you have to also teach your child that they may encounter others that do not belief as they do. Talk to your child about what they can do in those situations. By the way, I do not believe but I think it is ridiculous to expect others not to speak of religion due to hurting other peoples feelings or beliefs.

+1
oP can’t you just say “johnnys religion tells him the non-believers go to hell. We don’t believe that. But just know that Johnny is your friend, and he said that because his religion teaches that he needs to care about and worry about this for others. So he means well. We just disagree and we think it’s more respectful to just let Johnny think what he thinks and let us think what we think.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for your compassion. It really upset me to see my child hurting.

I’m ok with people having their beliefs. All I want is for them to be ok with mine. Children are sponges and repeat what they hear. I’d love for them to hear a message of kindness, not of intolerance, no matter the belief system.

Agree with the prior poster that the world will tell us that it is an act of “kindness” to say nothing as a sign of respect.
But GOD tells us that the ultimate act of Godly kindness is to share the news of the Gospel so that whomever hears and receives it will have everlasting life and be saved.

For me and for many, it’s hard to go against the conventional secular wisdom that kindness = MYOB, but The Bible is pretty clear that Satan wants us to MYOB and not bring any more followers to Christ.

I hope you're not giving yourself permission to be cruel to children. That's what it sounds like.

Cruelty is obviously a relative term here in this thread.
The ultimate cruelty IMO is claiming to be someone’s friend while quietly and politely remaining silent when your words could set them on the path to salvation. How cruel to know your friend is not saved and yet stand by and say/do nothing to offer a path to salvation.

This post is EXACTLY why there can never be a middle ground, a compromise. Many christians (especially evangelicals) live in a completely different world than others. They see it as a GOOD thing, while others (myself included) not only don't believe it, but feel that it's abusive to say these things to a child. My child, at the age of 8, was told if he didn't get "saved" by saying the magic words about jesus, would burn in a lake of fire for all eternity. This was done at a (previously) trusted friend's home, and she was told not to mention it to her parents because it was just between her and god. She was shown pictures of this lake of fire. She believed it, and although she is 14 now, she can't get the images out of her head.
I consider it abuse. They (and PP apparently) consider it a loving act.

They WON'T mind their business, because they see it as their business, they see it as loving, they see it as a command from the ever loving creator of the universe. I've even been told it would be disrespectful to ask them to stop evangelizing because I would then be disrespecting THEIR beliefs.

We live in different worlds...although I wish that was literal. I have no desire to inhabit any space in which there are people with beliefs so counter to humanity and with people that don't even believe they are allowed to keep that crap to themselves.

I do not wish this for you at all. But sadly yes, I do believe this is not yet literal but it will be.

[Anonymous]

If it’s kind to be silent about your faith, is it worth wearing the “Crown of Kindness” bestowed to you by the world if the price of kindness is that it ultimately costs your friend their soul?
That’s the debate we’re having.