Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.
Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.
But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.
What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes? There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.
There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.
Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/
New poster here. Not sure what OP's motivations are, but speaking for myself, the actual goal is to be able to take more advanced STEM classes and/or a greater variety of non-STEM classes. Things like genetics, organic chemistry or art, history, FL, music.
Simply put, the fewer classes are fixed, the more options students have to take what interests them. Pre-requisites eat up the time slots and some students don't need them. Many countries have chemistry and physics in middle school - classes that are very similar to AP physics 1 and honors chemistry.
Don’t be ridiculous, middle school classes are nothing like AP Physics 1. You can’t take genetics and organic chemistry without college level general chemistry and biology, it’s just plain silly. And nope, college level introductory chemistry can’t be substituted with middle (high) school chemistry.
If your goal is to take more varied classes beyond what’s available in a typical high school, consider early college options:
Usually they are more flexible with placement and prerequisites, you can get credit by examination etc. and you can take the classes you listed. You will still need to show you mastered the prerequisites in some way, they won’t take your word that “some students don’t need them”. Also you’ll have a much harder time to skip if the prerequisite has a lab portion.
You mean in MCPS? I agree. But we have experience abroad and the middle school classes were in fact very similar to AP Physics 1 and HS honors chemistry in MCPS. Many countries have medicine as an undergraduate degree and their middle school and HS classes reflect that.
No they don’t. I also come from a country with medicine as undergraduate degree. You still have to take college physics and chemistry, way above high school and middle school curriculum.
If you actually want good advice clarify what grade the child is in, what classes he took so far, what classes he wants to skip and which they want to join, and what school they are currently attending.
I don’t need your advice, thank you very much. The fact is that n many countries students do classes similar to MCPS honors chemistry and AP physics 1 in middle school, organic chemistry and biochemistry in middle school.
Then you can see for yourself what’s taught in a typical university physics course. That’s more or less AP Physics C Mechanics.
I sincerely doubt this is what middle schoolers learn in your home country. Keep in mind that in addition to calculus you need to know trigonometry, some vectors, etc. I don’t think this is an appropriate first ever physics class.
PP you seem to be misunderstanding the poster to whom you are responding who is talking about AP Physics 1, but you are responding with details about AP Physics C
AP Physics 1 and AP Physics C (which covers both mechanics and EM) are entirely different classes. C is much harder, requires calculus and is more akin to college physics 101. Physics 1 is algebra-based and covers only the first semester of college physics spread across a whole HS year.
I can see how a bright 9th grader could do AP Physics 1. Most HSers won't take AP Physics C so early because concurrent calc is a minimum requirement & most HSers won't take calc until Jr year.
If your kid is talented and interested in physics it’s more efficient and effective to take one year introductory plus one year of Physics C.
The alternative is two years of AP Physics 1 & 2 and in the end you still didn’t do the more rigorous calculus based version so likely you’ll have to take a third year of Physics.
Even Physics 1 is not as easy as you imagine, definitely not middle school level anywhere in the world.
Only 10% of rest takers are getting a 5 in AP Physics 1.
Friendly advice, don’t let your ego screw your child over. Be realistic about what they can or can’t do. Self study is a bad idea in general, a real class is more motivational, it has more resources, there’s real evaluation and testing and ultimately more likely to help in being successful at learning the material.
An alternative view is that AP Physics 1 + 2 + Calculus-based physics is a far stronger physics education than diving into the math before learning the concepts of Physics. Physics is a science, not a Math class. Learning physics that depends on recently acquired not-highly-mastered math skills is not a winning recipe.
You’ll have to master the math concepts whatever physics class you take anyways. Not a big fan of algebra physics because calculus based gives a gives a deeper first principles understanding, you can literally see how everything is related.
Typically students take 4 years of science in high school, if you spend 3 years on physics there’s less time for Chemistry, Biology, Computer Science and some additional math like Statistics or Multivariable. Even if you use some electives, and skip introductory classes you have make some tradeoffs. Not to mention humanities, social sciences and foreign languages.
Most importantly you need to avoid getting Bs because you got in over your head and can’t keep up.
In America, ok? In many countries students have all the sciences every year. But you think you must have the exact same classes every day.
Then I suggest you send the kid back to that mythical country and to that wonderful middle school that teaches university classes. By the time they finish high school they’ll blow everyone out of the water and be ready to receive their well deserved Harvard admission. Unless in that country they also one up the American system and do graduate level classes in undergrad like medical school. Or do medical school and residency there too, right?
You are a little obtuse, people are trying to give you advise not debate what educational system is the best.
First of all, I never asked you about advice, and in fact, I resent your patronizing tone. You don't know more about this than I do.
Second, I didn't see anyone saying middle school should be teaching university level classes, ok? Middle schools around the world are teaching actual intro science classes so that their students can take AP level-like classes (and above) in HS.
American middle school curriculum is complete garbage when it comes to science. It's a total waste of time. Then, HS picks up the slack but students run out of time to pursue more advanced classes, or they can only do so in one subject.
To go back to the topic, this is why students and parents are inquiring about skipping intro classes. They are trying to compensate for the time their kids lost while fiddling fingers in their science classes, year after year. It's a real problem, and experience in other countries shows that 1) it can be done i.e. it doesn't take once in a generation genius 2) where the problem is (middle school).
Ok so this is for your child not for you. The school doesn’t care that in your head you think it’s done somewhere in the world. They care about placing students appropriately in the class. If not, they risk having the class filled with dummies with pushy parents that will drag the class down because they don’t even grasp the basics of pH when they teach Lewis bases and acids. So they can’t keep the pace of the class because they need to go back to explaining simple things that should have been mastered in and out. In the end it’s the top students that suffer the most because now they get a watered down AP class that might drag down their AP scores and their college prospects.
Hopefully you can see the point of view of the school, it’s not because the American middle school curriculum is garbage.
If you paid attention to my posts you would have realized that I do understand the point of view of the HS. By the time kids get there, the damage is done. But high school wouldn't be in this position if middle school science curriculum were not grossly deficient. Students should have mastered basics of Ph, Lewis formulas, be comfortable translating physics problems into equations etc in middle school and they should be able to jump straight into AP chemistry, AP biology without introductory classes. Introductory science classes belong in middle school. It is not a coincidence that this is what HS parents and students are trying to skip.
So are you here to vent to looking for advice on how to skip?
Is the student in middle school and you want them to skip middle school curriculum and take the high school prerequisites of AP?
Is the student in high school having taken the middle school curriculum and now wants to take AP directly? What grade and what classes? Have you talked to the school and they won’t budge? You need to be more specific about what problem you’re facing.
More important, how do you know the student is prepared for the class you want them to take? How advanced are they in other areas? Is the workload easy for them in their current grade? Because if they struggle in math and English it’s hard to ask for skipping classes and frankly not advisable.
I am not the OP, ok? I came here once or twice with similar questions and people (it was probably you - the same alarmist, accusatory tone and the same argument about most students not being ready for AP classes) jumped on me calling me a crazy pushy parent out their to destroy my child. I concluded that DC asking those questions at their school is the best way to go and this has, indeed, proven to be the case.
I do find your extreme defensiveness problematic. The idea that it is the parents of kids who "struggle in math and English" who are inquiring about skipping honors classes on DCUM is... telling.
Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.
Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.
But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.
What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes? There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.
There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.
Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/
New poster here. Not sure what OP's motivations are, but speaking for myself, the actual goal is to be able to take more advanced STEM classes and/or a greater variety of non-STEM classes. Things like genetics, organic chemistry or art, history, FL, music.
Simply put, the fewer classes are fixed, the more options students have to take what interests them. Pre-requisites eat up the time slots and some students don't need them. Many countries have chemistry and physics in middle school - classes that are very similar to AP physics 1 and honors chemistry.
Don’t be ridiculous, middle school classes are nothing like AP Physics 1. You can’t take genetics and organic chemistry without college level general chemistry and biology, it’s just plain silly. And nope, college level introductory chemistry can’t be substituted with middle (high) school chemistry.
If your goal is to take more varied classes beyond what’s available in a typical high school, consider early college options:
Usually they are more flexible with placement and prerequisites, you can get credit by examination etc. and you can take the classes you listed. You will still need to show you mastered the prerequisites in some way, they won’t take your word that “some students don’t need them”. Also you’ll have a much harder time to skip if the prerequisite has a lab portion.
You mean in MCPS? I agree. But we have experience abroad and the middle school classes were in fact very similar to AP Physics 1 and HS honors chemistry in MCPS. Many countries have medicine as an undergraduate degree and their middle school and HS classes reflect that.
No they don’t. I also come from a country with medicine as undergraduate degree. You still have to take college physics and chemistry, way above high school and middle school curriculum.
If you actually want good advice clarify what grade the child is in, what classes he took so far, what classes he wants to skip and which they want to join, and what school they are currently attending.
I don’t need your advice, thank you very much. The fact is that n many countries students do classes similar to MCPS honors chemistry and AP physics 1 in middle school, organic chemistry and biochemistry in middle school.
Then you can see for yourself what’s taught in a typical university physics course. That’s more or less AP Physics C Mechanics.
I sincerely doubt this is what middle schoolers learn in your home country. Keep in mind that in addition to calculus you need to know trigonometry, some vectors, etc. I don’t think this is an appropriate first ever physics class.
PP you seem to be misunderstanding the poster to whom you are responding who is talking about AP Physics 1, but you are responding with details about AP Physics C
AP Physics 1 and AP Physics C (which covers both mechanics and EM) are entirely different classes. C is much harder, requires calculus and is more akin to college physics 101. Physics 1 is algebra-based and covers only the first semester of college physics spread across a whole HS year.
I can see how a bright 9th grader could do AP Physics 1. Most HSers won't take AP Physics C so early because concurrent calc is a minimum requirement & most HSers won't take calc until Jr year.
If your kid is talented and interested in physics it’s more efficient and effective to take one year introductory plus one year of Physics C.
The alternative is two years of AP Physics 1 & 2 and in the end you still didn’t do the more rigorous calculus based version so likely you’ll have to take a third year of Physics.
Even Physics 1 is not as easy as you imagine, definitely not middle school level anywhere in the world.
Only 10% of rest takers are getting a 5 in AP Physics 1.
Friendly advice, don’t let your ego screw your child over. Be realistic about what they can or can’t do. Self study is a bad idea in general, a real class is more motivational, it has more resources, there’s real evaluation and testing and ultimately more likely to help in being successful at learning the material.
An alternative view is that AP Physics 1 + 2 + Calculus-based physics is a far stronger physics education than diving into the math before learning the concepts of Physics. Physics is a science, not a Math class. Learning physics that depends on recently acquired not-highly-mastered math skills is not a winning recipe.
You’ll have to master the math concepts whatever physics class you take anyways. Not a big fan of algebra physics because calculus based gives a gives a deeper first principles understanding, you can literally see how everything is related.
Typically students take 4 years of science in high school, if you spend 3 years on physics there’s less time for Chemistry, Biology, Computer Science and some additional math like Statistics or Multivariable. Even if you use some electives, and skip introductory classes you have make some tradeoffs. Not to mention humanities, social sciences and foreign languages.
Most importantly you need to avoid getting Bs because you got in over your head and can’t keep up.
In America, ok? In many countries students have all the sciences every year. But you think you must have the exact same classes every day.
Then I suggest you send the kid back to that mythical country and to that wonderful middle school that teaches university classes. By the time they finish high school they’ll blow everyone out of the water and be ready to receive their well deserved Harvard admission. Unless in that country they also one up the American system and do graduate level classes in undergrad like medical school. Or do medical school and residency there too, right?
You are a little obtuse, people are trying to give you advise not debate what educational system is the best.
First of all, I never asked you about advice, and in fact, I resent your patronizing tone. You don't know more about this than I do.
Second, I didn't see anyone saying middle school should be teaching university level classes, ok? Middle schools around the world are teaching actual intro science classes so that their students can take AP level-like classes (and above) in HS.
American middle school curriculum is complete garbage when it comes to science. It's a total waste of time. Then, HS picks up the slack but students run out of time to pursue more advanced classes, or they can only do so in one subject.
To go back to the topic, this is why students and parents are inquiring about skipping intro classes. They are trying to compensate for the time their kids lost while fiddling fingers in their science classes, year after year. It's a real problem, and experience in other countries shows that 1) it can be done i.e. it doesn't take once in a generation genius 2) where the problem is (middle school).
Ok so this is for your child not for you. The school doesn’t care that in your head you think it’s done somewhere in the world. They care about placing students appropriately in the class. If not, they risk having the class filled with dummies with pushy parents that will drag the class down because they don’t even grasp the basics of pH when they teach Lewis bases and acids. So they can’t keep the pace of the class because they need to go back to explaining simple things that should have been mastered in and out. In the end it’s the top students that suffer the most because now they get a watered down AP class that might drag down their AP scores and their college prospects.
Hopefully you can see the point of view of the school, it’s not because the American middle school curriculum is garbage.
If you paid attention to my posts you would have realized that I do understand the point of view of the HS. By the time kids get there, the damage is done. But high school wouldn't be in this position if middle school science curriculum were not grossly deficient. Students should have mastered basics of Ph, Lewis formulas, be comfortable translating physics problems into equations etc in middle school and they should be able to jump straight into AP chemistry, AP biology without introductory classes. Introductory science classes belong in middle school. It is not a coincidence that this is what HS parents and students are trying to skip.
So are you here to vent to looking for advice on how to skip?
Is the student in middle school and you want them to skip middle school curriculum and take the high school prerequisites of AP?
Is the student in high school having taken the middle school curriculum and now wants to take AP directly? What grade and what classes? Have you talked to the school and they won’t budge? You need to be more specific about what problem you’re facing.
More important, how do you know the student is prepared for the class you want them to take? How advanced are they in other areas? Is the workload easy for them in their current grade? Because if they struggle in math and English it’s hard to ask for skipping classes and frankly not advisable.
I am not the OP, ok? I came here once or twice with similar questions and people (it was probably you - the same alarmist, accusatory tone and the same argument about most students not being ready for AP classes) jumped on me calling me a crazy pushy parent out their to destroy my child. I concluded that DC asking those questions at their school is the best way to go and this has, indeed, proven to be the case.
I do find your extreme defensiveness problematic. The idea that it is the parents of kids who "struggle in math and English" who are inquiring about skipping honors classes on DCUM is... telling.
Of course the answer is to ask the school. The OP rationale to skip intro classes is that overseas kids have more rigorous classes than American kids.
The level of math should be taken into account. If the student is taking Algebra 2 in 8th grade and getting an A, it can be used to show they can handle more advanced coursework than their peers. If they are struggling with a B in Algebra 1, maybe skipping classes is not a great idea.
Anonymous wrote:There are prerequisites for a reason. Unless you can document that you have taken the equivalent course already, you aren’t going to be able to just skip prerequisites.
Is Khan Academy record accepted as documentation?
Khan Academy can be accepted as documentation in some instances, see link from Caltech, but it needs to be certified.
Anonymous wrote:There are prerequisites for a reason. Unless you can document that you have taken the equivalent course already, you aren’t going to be able to just skip prerequisites.
Is Khan Academy record accepted as documentation?
Khan Academy can be accepted as documentation in some instances, see link from Caltech, but it needs to be certified.
Anonymous wrote:There are prerequisites for a reason. Unless you can document that you have taken the equivalent course already, you aren’t going to be able to just skip prerequisites.
Is Khan Academy record accepted as documentation?
Khan Academy can be accepted as documentation in some instances, see link from Caltech, but it needs to be certified.
Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.
Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.
AP Chem and AP Bio are double periods, so they effectively are their own prereqs, when compared to an academically rigorous school district.
No - they are longer to allow substantive labs. If your “academically rigorous” is doing these with a 45 minute period, they are seriously limiting the number and type of labs. The “experts” here… 🙄
Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.
Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.
But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.
What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes? There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.
There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.
Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/
New poster here. Not sure what OP's motivations are, but speaking for myself, the actual goal is to be able to take more advanced STEM classes and/or a greater variety of non-STEM classes. Things like genetics, organic chemistry or art, history, FL, music.
Simply put, the fewer classes are fixed, the more options students have to take what interests them. Pre-requisites eat up the time slots and some students don't need them. Many countries have chemistry and physics in middle school - classes that are very similar to AP physics 1 and honors chemistry.
Don’t be ridiculous, middle school classes are nothing like AP Physics 1. You can’t take genetics and organic chemistry without college level general chemistry and biology, it’s just plain silly. And nope, college level introductory chemistry can’t be substituted with middle (high) school chemistry.
If your goal is to take more varied classes beyond what’s available in a typical high school, consider early college options:
Usually they are more flexible with placement and prerequisites, you can get credit by examination etc. and you can take the classes you listed. You will still need to show you mastered the prerequisites in some way, they won’t take your word that “some students don’t need them”. Also you’ll have a much harder time to skip if the prerequisite has a lab portion.
You mean in MCPS? I agree. But we have experience abroad and the middle school classes were in fact very similar to AP Physics 1 and HS honors chemistry in MCPS. Many countries have medicine as an undergraduate degree and their middle school and HS classes reflect that.
No they don’t. I also come from a country with medicine as undergraduate degree. You still have to take college physics and chemistry, way above high school and middle school curriculum.
If you actually want good advice clarify what grade the child is in, what classes he took so far, what classes he wants to skip and which they want to join, and what school they are currently attending.
And none of us want to use a doctor with only an undergrad education. I always wonder about immigrants like this. If your country’s educational system was so effective, why did your economy not support you?
Anonymous wrote:There are prerequisites for a reason. Unless you can document that you have taken the equivalent course already, you aren’t going to be able to just skip prerequisites.
Some schools have prerequisites for AP classes that aren't actually required by AP itself. For example, my DD took AP Lang her sophomore year. Honestly, she could have taken it as a freshman. I had to press the school to allow it.
No… there are very few sophomores with writing sophisticated enough to reach college level, let alone freshmen. Heck, most of the Juniors taking this are not qualified. All you are doing is continuing the erosion of standards. Even smart kids need to work on skills, especially writing.
Anonymous wrote:My kid is a senior now but when she was freshmen at Whitman there was a friend in 9th whose mother convinced the school to let her DD take AP Physics, so she could do the Physics advancements each year.
Yes, very, very pushy, almost insane mother who also got her to take the SAT from the age of 13 every single year.
Middle school program CTY requires SAT or equivalent test.
Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.
Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.
But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.
What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes? There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.
There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.
Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/
New poster here. Not sure what OP's motivations are, but speaking for myself, the actual goal is to be able to take more advanced STEM classes and/or a greater variety of non-STEM classes. Things like genetics, organic chemistry or art, history, FL, music.
Simply put, the fewer classes are fixed, the more options students have to take what interests them. Pre-requisites eat up the time slots and some students don't need them. Many countries have chemistry and physics in middle school - classes that are very similar to AP physics 1 and honors chemistry.
Don’t be ridiculous, middle school classes are nothing like AP Physics 1. You can’t take genetics and organic chemistry without college level general chemistry and biology, it’s just plain silly. And nope, college level introductory chemistry can’t be substituted with middle (high) school chemistry.
If your goal is to take more varied classes beyond what’s available in a typical high school, consider early college options:
Usually they are more flexible with placement and prerequisites, you can get credit by examination etc. and you can take the classes you listed. You will still need to show you mastered the prerequisites in some way, they won’t take your word that “some students don’t need them”. Also you’ll have a much harder time to skip if the prerequisite has a lab portion.
You mean in MCPS? I agree. But we have experience abroad and the middle school classes were in fact very similar to AP Physics 1 and HS honors chemistry in MCPS. Many countries have medicine as an undergraduate degree and their middle school and HS classes reflect that.
No they don’t. I also come from a country with medicine as undergraduate degree. You still have to take college physics and chemistry, way above high school and middle school curriculum.
If you actually want good advice clarify what grade the child is in, what classes he took so far, what classes he wants to skip and which they want to join, and what school they are currently attending.
I don’t need your advice, thank you very much. The fact is that n many countries students do classes similar to MCPS honors chemistry and AP physics 1 in middle school, organic chemistry and biochemistry in middle school.
Then you can see for yourself what’s taught in a typical university physics course. That’s more or less AP Physics C Mechanics.
I sincerely doubt this is what middle schoolers learn in your home country. Keep in mind that in addition to calculus you need to know trigonometry, some vectors, etc. I don’t think this is an appropriate first ever physics class.
PP you seem to be misunderstanding the poster to whom you are responding who is talking about AP Physics 1, but you are responding with details about AP Physics C
AP Physics 1 and AP Physics C (which covers both mechanics and EM) are entirely different classes. C is much harder, requires calculus and is more akin to college physics 101. Physics 1 is algebra-based and covers only the first semester of college physics spread across a whole HS year.
I can see how a bright 9th grader could do AP Physics 1. Most HSers won't take AP Physics C so early because concurrent calc is a minimum requirement & most HSers won't take calc until Jr year.
If your kid is talented and interested in physics it’s more efficient and effective to take one year introductory plus one year of Physics C.
The alternative is two years of AP Physics 1 & 2 and in the end you still didn’t do the more rigorous calculus based version so likely you’ll have to take a third year of Physics.
Even Physics 1 is not as easy as you imagine, definitely not middle school level anywhere in the world.
Only 10% of rest takers are getting a 5 in AP Physics 1.
Friendly advice, don’t let your ego screw your child over. Be realistic about what they can or can’t do. Self study is a bad idea in general, a real class is more motivational, it has more resources, there’s real evaluation and testing and ultimately more likely to help in being successful at learning the material.
An alternative view is that AP Physics 1 + 2 + Calculus-based physics is a far stronger physics education than diving into the math before learning the concepts of Physics. Physics is a science, not a Math class. Learning physics that depends on recently acquired not-highly-mastered math skills is not a winning recipe.
You’ll have to master the math concepts whatever physics class you take anyways. Not a big fan of algebra physics because calculus based gives a gives a deeper first principles understanding, you can literally see how everything is related.
Typically students take 4 years of science in high school, if you spend 3 years on physics there’s less time for Chemistry, Biology, Computer Science and some additional math like Statistics or Multivariable. Even if you use some electives, and skip introductory classes you have make some tradeoffs. Not to mention humanities, social sciences and foreign languages.
Most importantly you need to avoid getting Bs because you got in over your head and can’t keep up.
There are many threads here about AP Physics 1, which is more conceptual but still not easy, and AP Physics C. Many argue that C is more plug and chug. Take a look…
Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.
Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.
But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.
What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes? There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.
There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.
Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/
New poster here. Not sure what OP's motivations are, but speaking for myself, the actual goal is to be able to take more advanced STEM classes and/or a greater variety of non-STEM classes. Things like genetics, organic chemistry or art, history, FL, music.
Simply put, the fewer classes are fixed, the more options students have to take what interests them. Pre-requisites eat up the time slots and some students don't need them. Many countries have chemistry and physics in middle school - classes that are very similar to AP physics 1 and honors chemistry.
Don’t be ridiculous, middle school classes are nothing like AP Physics 1. You can’t take genetics and organic chemistry without college level general chemistry and biology, it’s just plain silly. And nope, college level introductory chemistry can’t be substituted with middle (high) school chemistry.
If your goal is to take more varied classes beyond what’s available in a typical high school, consider early college options:
Usually they are more flexible with placement and prerequisites, you can get credit by examination etc. and you can take the classes you listed. You will still need to show you mastered the prerequisites in some way, they won’t take your word that “some students don’t need them”. Also you’ll have a much harder time to skip if the prerequisite has a lab portion.
You mean in MCPS? I agree. But we have experience abroad and the middle school classes were in fact very similar to AP Physics 1 and HS honors chemistry in MCPS. Many countries have medicine as an undergraduate degree and their middle school and HS classes reflect that.
No they don’t. I also come from a country with medicine as undergraduate degree. You still have to take college physics and chemistry, way above high school and middle school curriculum.
If you actually want good advice clarify what grade the child is in, what classes he took so far, what classes he wants to skip and which they want to join, and what school they are currently attending.
I don’t need your advice, thank you very much. The fact is that n many countries students do classes similar to MCPS honors chemistry and AP physics 1 in middle school, organic chemistry and biochemistry in middle school.
Then you can see for yourself what’s taught in a typical university physics course. That’s more or less AP Physics C Mechanics.
I sincerely doubt this is what middle schoolers learn in your home country. Keep in mind that in addition to calculus you need to know trigonometry, some vectors, etc. I don’t think this is an appropriate first ever physics class.
PP you seem to be misunderstanding the poster to whom you are responding who is talking about AP Physics 1, but you are responding with details about AP Physics C
AP Physics 1 and AP Physics C (which covers both mechanics and EM) are entirely different classes. C is much harder, requires calculus and is more akin to college physics 101. Physics 1 is algebra-based and covers only the first semester of college physics spread across a whole HS year.
I can see how a bright 9th grader could do AP Physics 1. Most HSers won't take AP Physics C so early because concurrent calc is a minimum requirement & most HSers won't take calc until Jr year.
If your kid is talented and interested in physics it’s more efficient and effective to take one year introductory plus one year of Physics C.
The alternative is two years of AP Physics 1 & 2 and in the end you still didn’t do the more rigorous calculus based version so likely you’ll have to take a third year of Physics.
Even Physics 1 is not as easy as you imagine, definitely not middle school level anywhere in the world.
Only 10% of rest takers are getting a 5 in AP Physics 1.
Friendly advice, don’t let your ego screw your child over. Be realistic about what they can or can’t do. Self study is a bad idea in general, a real class is more motivational, it has more resources, there’s real evaluation and testing and ultimately more likely to help in being successful at learning the material.
An alternative view is that AP Physics 1 + 2 + Calculus-based physics is a far stronger physics education than diving into the math before learning the concepts of Physics. Physics is a science, not a Math class. Learning physics that depends on recently acquired not-highly-mastered math skills is not a winning recipe.
You’ll have to master the math concepts whatever physics class you take anyways. Not a big fan of algebra physics because calculus based gives a gives a deeper first principles understanding, you can literally see how everything is related.
Typically students take 4 years of science in high school, if you spend 3 years on physics there’s less time for Chemistry, Biology, Computer Science and some additional math like Statistics or Multivariable. Even if you use some electives, and skip introductory classes you have make some tradeoffs. Not to mention humanities, social sciences and foreign languages.
Most importantly you need to avoid getting Bs because you got in over your head and can’t keep up.
There are many threads here about AP Physics 1, which is more conceptual but still not easy, and AP Physics C. Many argue that C is more plug and chug. Take a look…
I happen to have a degree in physics, but you do you. Enroll the kid in Physics 1 next year and hope he can keep up.
If you are relentless enough the school will likely give in.
Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.
Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.
But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.
What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes? There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.
There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.
Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/
New poster here. Not sure what OP's motivations are, but speaking for myself, the actual goal is to be able to take more advanced STEM classes and/or a greater variety of non-STEM classes. Things like genetics, organic chemistry or art, history, FL, music.
Simply put, the fewer classes are fixed, the more options students have to take what interests them. Pre-requisites eat up the time slots and some students don't need them. Many countries have chemistry and physics in middle school - classes that are very similar to AP physics 1 and honors chemistry.
Don’t be ridiculous, middle school classes are nothing like AP Physics 1. You can’t take genetics and organic chemistry without college level general chemistry and biology, it’s just plain silly. And nope, college level introductory chemistry can’t be substituted with middle (high) school chemistry.
If your goal is to take more varied classes beyond what’s available in a typical high school, consider early college options:
Usually they are more flexible with placement and prerequisites, you can get credit by examination etc. and you can take the classes you listed. You will still need to show you mastered the prerequisites in some way, they won’t take your word that “some students don’t need them”. Also you’ll have a much harder time to skip if the prerequisite has a lab portion.
You mean in MCPS? I agree. But we have experience abroad and the middle school classes were in fact very similar to AP Physics 1 and HS honors chemistry in MCPS. Many countries have medicine as an undergraduate degree and their middle school and HS classes reflect that.
No they don’t. I also come from a country with medicine as undergraduate degree. You still have to take college physics and chemistry, way above high school and middle school curriculum.
If you actually want good advice clarify what grade the child is in, what classes he took so far, what classes he wants to skip and which they want to join, and what school they are currently attending.
And none of us want to use a doctor with only an undergrad education. I always wonder about immigrants like this. If your country’s educational system was so effective, why did your economy not support you?
you are gonna take the doctor your insurance approves and you are gonna love them. and a lot of them have foreign degrees.
Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.
Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.
But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.
What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes? There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.
There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.
Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/
New poster here. Not sure what OP's motivations are, but speaking for myself, the actual goal is to be able to take more advanced STEM classes and/or a greater variety of non-STEM classes. Things like genetics, organic chemistry or art, history, FL, music.
Simply put, the fewer classes are fixed, the more options students have to take what interests them. Pre-requisites eat up the time slots and some students don't need them. Many countries have chemistry and physics in middle school - classes that are very similar to AP physics 1 and honors chemistry.
Don’t be ridiculous, middle school classes are nothing like AP Physics 1. You can’t take genetics and organic chemistry without college level general chemistry and biology, it’s just plain silly. And nope, college level introductory chemistry can’t be substituted with middle (high) school chemistry.
If your goal is to take more varied classes beyond what’s available in a typical high school, consider early college options:
Usually they are more flexible with placement and prerequisites, you can get credit by examination etc. and you can take the classes you listed. You will still need to show you mastered the prerequisites in some way, they won’t take your word that “some students don’t need them”. Also you’ll have a much harder time to skip if the prerequisite has a lab portion.
You mean in MCPS? I agree. But we have experience abroad and the middle school classes were in fact very similar to AP Physics 1 and HS honors chemistry in MCPS. Many countries have medicine as an undergraduate degree and their middle school and HS classes reflect that.
No they don’t. I also come from a country with medicine as undergraduate degree. You still have to take college physics and chemistry, way above high school and middle school curriculum.
If you actually want good advice clarify what grade the child is in, what classes he took so far, what classes he wants to skip and which they want to join, and what school they are currently attending.
I don’t need your advice, thank you very much. The fact is that n many countries students do classes similar to MCPS honors chemistry and AP physics 1 in middle school, organic chemistry and biochemistry in middle school.
Then you can see for yourself what’s taught in a typical university physics course. That’s more or less AP Physics C Mechanics.
I sincerely doubt this is what middle schoolers learn in your home country. Keep in mind that in addition to calculus you need to know trigonometry, some vectors, etc. I don’t think this is an appropriate first ever physics class.
PP you seem to be misunderstanding the poster to whom you are responding who is talking about AP Physics 1, but you are responding with details about AP Physics C
AP Physics 1 and AP Physics C (which covers both mechanics and EM) are entirely different classes. C is much harder, requires calculus and is more akin to college physics 101. Physics 1 is algebra-based and covers only the first semester of college physics spread across a whole HS year.
I can see how a bright 9th grader could do AP Physics 1. Most HSers won't take AP Physics C so early because concurrent calc is a minimum requirement & most HSers won't take calc until Jr year.
If your kid is talented and interested in physics it’s more efficient and effective to take one year introductory plus one year of Physics C.
The alternative is two years of AP Physics 1 & 2 and in the end you still didn’t do the more rigorous calculus based version so likely you’ll have to take a third year of Physics.
Even Physics 1 is not as easy as you imagine, definitely not middle school level anywhere in the world.
Only 10% of rest takers are getting a 5 in AP Physics 1.
Friendly advice, don’t let your ego screw your child over. Be realistic about what they can or can’t do. Self study is a bad idea in general, a real class is more motivational, it has more resources, there’s real evaluation and testing and ultimately more likely to help in being successful at learning the material.
An alternative view is that AP Physics 1 + 2 + Calculus-based physics is a far stronger physics education than diving into the math before learning the concepts of Physics. Physics is a science, not a Math class. Learning physics that depends on recently acquired not-highly-mastered math skills is not a winning recipe.
You’ll have to master the math concepts whatever physics class you take anyways. Not a big fan of algebra physics because calculus based gives a gives a deeper first principles understanding, you can literally see how everything is related.
Typically students take 4 years of science in high school, if you spend 3 years on physics there’s less time for Chemistry, Biology, Computer Science and some additional math like Statistics or Multivariable. Even if you use some electives, and skip introductory classes you have make some tradeoffs. Not to mention humanities, social sciences and foreign languages.
Most importantly you need to avoid getting Bs because you got in over your head and can’t keep up.
There are many threads here about AP Physics 1, which is more conceptual but still not easy, and AP Physics C. Many argue that C is more plug and chug. Take a look…
I happen to have a degree in physics, but you do you. Enroll the kid in Physics 1 next year and hope he can keep up.
If you are relentless enough the school will likely give in.
The sad thing is that there is clearly nothing in the world that would make you happier than if this student was allowed to take Physics 1, then got a B in it and then got reject from some dream school because of it.
You are clearly an MCPS educator and I suggest you reflect on why it makes you so angry that some students want to learn more advanced material sooner.
Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.
Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.
But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.
What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes? There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.
There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.
Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/
New poster here. Not sure what OP's motivations are, but speaking for myself, the actual goal is to be able to take more advanced STEM classes and/or a greater variety of non-STEM classes. Things like genetics, organic chemistry or art, history, FL, music.
Simply put, the fewer classes are fixed, the more options students have to take what interests them. Pre-requisites eat up the time slots and some students don't need them. Many countries have chemistry and physics in middle school - classes that are very similar to AP physics 1 and honors chemistry.
Don’t be ridiculous, middle school classes are nothing like AP Physics 1. You can’t take genetics and organic chemistry without college level general chemistry and biology, it’s just plain silly. And nope, college level introductory chemistry can’t be substituted with middle (high) school chemistry.
If your goal is to take more varied classes beyond what’s available in a typical high school, consider early college options:
Usually they are more flexible with placement and prerequisites, you can get credit by examination etc. and you can take the classes you listed. You will still need to show you mastered the prerequisites in some way, they won’t take your word that “some students don’t need them”. Also you’ll have a much harder time to skip if the prerequisite has a lab portion.
You mean in MCPS? I agree. But we have experience abroad and the middle school classes were in fact very similar to AP Physics 1 and HS honors chemistry in MCPS. Many countries have medicine as an undergraduate degree and their middle school and HS classes reflect that.
No they don’t. I also come from a country with medicine as undergraduate degree. You still have to take college physics and chemistry, way above high school and middle school curriculum.
If you actually want good advice clarify what grade the child is in, what classes he took so far, what classes he wants to skip and which they want to join, and what school they are currently attending.
I don’t need your advice, thank you very much. The fact is that n many countries students do classes similar to MCPS honors chemistry and AP physics 1 in middle school, organic chemistry and biochemistry in middle school.
Then you can see for yourself what’s taught in a typical university physics course. That’s more or less AP Physics C Mechanics.
I sincerely doubt this is what middle schoolers learn in your home country. Keep in mind that in addition to calculus you need to know trigonometry, some vectors, etc. I don’t think this is an appropriate first ever physics class.
PP you seem to be misunderstanding the poster to whom you are responding who is talking about AP Physics 1, but you are responding with details about AP Physics C
AP Physics 1 and AP Physics C (which covers both mechanics and EM) are entirely different classes. C is much harder, requires calculus and is more akin to college physics 101. Physics 1 is algebra-based and covers only the first semester of college physics spread across a whole HS year.
I can see how a bright 9th grader could do AP Physics 1. Most HSers won't take AP Physics C so early because concurrent calc is a minimum requirement & most HSers won't take calc until Jr year.
If your kid is talented and interested in physics it’s more efficient and effective to take one year introductory plus one year of Physics C.
The alternative is two years of AP Physics 1 & 2 and in the end you still didn’t do the more rigorous calculus based version so likely you’ll have to take a third year of Physics.
Even Physics 1 is not as easy as you imagine, definitely not middle school level anywhere in the world.
Only 10% of rest takers are getting a 5 in AP Physics 1.
Friendly advice, don’t let your ego screw your child over. Be realistic about what they can or can’t do. Self study is a bad idea in general, a real class is more motivational, it has more resources, there’s real evaluation and testing and ultimately more likely to help in being successful at learning the material.
An alternative view is that AP Physics 1 + 2 + Calculus-based physics is a far stronger physics education than diving into the math before learning the concepts of Physics. Physics is a science, not a Math class. Learning physics that depends on recently acquired not-highly-mastered math skills is not a winning recipe.
You’ll have to master the math concepts whatever physics class you take anyways. Not a big fan of algebra physics because calculus based gives a gives a deeper first principles understanding, you can literally see how everything is related.
Typically students take 4 years of science in high school, if you spend 3 years on physics there’s less time for Chemistry, Biology, Computer Science and some additional math like Statistics or Multivariable. Even if you use some electives, and skip introductory classes you have make some tradeoffs. Not to mention humanities, social sciences and foreign languages.
Most importantly you need to avoid getting Bs because you got in over your head and can’t keep up.
There are many threads here about AP Physics 1, which is more conceptual but still not easy, and AP Physics C. Many argue that C is more plug and chug. Take a look…
I happen to have a degree in physics, but you do you. Enroll the kid in Physics 1 next year and hope he can keep up.
If you are relentless enough the school will likely give in.
The sad thing is that there is clearly nothing in the world that would make you happier than if this student was allowed to take Physics 1, then got a B in it and then got reject from some dream school because of it.
You are clearly an MCPS educator and I suggest you reflect on why it makes you so angry that some students want to learn more advanced material sooner.
You’re asking for advice about how to skip intro classes, but when people’s pitch in you get defensive. It really depends on the class and the situation of the student, usually the course catalogue will say something like “with permission of the instructor”.
There’s not much you can do to make the school waive the prerequisite but with a combination of badgering and being nice you might succeed. AP Biology AP Physics 1 & 2 might be fine. AP Chemistry and AP Physics C less likely.
It also matters if your kid is a top student or middle of the pack, the school is more likely to bend the rules for someone that consistently gets good grades. Did they skip ahead in math, kept up with the rigor and got good grades? Its easier to skip grades in math than sciences.
Also it matters what grade he’s in, some AP classes are only open to junior and seniors, and your 9th grader may be out on the waitlist.
Since the school is not obligated to accommodate your request, you might have to do some coursework outside of school to satisfy the prerequisite, see the Caltech link. They might still not accept anything, but it’s better if all you’ve got is your view that the American education sucks.
Besides that be realistic about where your student is, only a few do well in AP classes, and even fewer do so without some preparation.
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