skipping intro classes on HS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS allows APs starting in 9th grade for social science (usually AP Gov and Pol) and tech requirements (usually AP Computer Science Principles). But not for math, because of the state requirement of one math class every year (most high schools don't have 3 more math classes after AP Calc BC, so it means dual enrollment at Montgomery College or a UMD course) and usually not for science, because the College Board has prerequisites for AP Physic C, AP Chem and AP Bio that are usually not met by 9th grade.

That being said, my kid and some others have taken AP Calc BC in 10th, because they'd been on that pathway since middle school due to taking Alg 1 in 6th, or coming from different school systems with accelerated math. Which means they can take AP Phys C starting in 10th as well, since it has a calculus requirement. Theoretically, AP Chem and AP Bio need their Honors counterparts first, but I have found that if you demonstrate proficiency in math and one hard science, science coordinators let the kid off the hook for the other hard science's pre-requisites. AP Bio and AP Chem are double periods at most (if not all?) MCPS high schools, so they're a little difficult to fit in if the student also wants to take various classes in other disciplines.

I haven't heard of placement tests for any of these. They just look at previous coursework and go from there. Before middle school, my kid did have a placement test for Alg 1.

Thank you.

"9th grade" isn't the primary focus. Obviously no one is taking all these AP courses in 9th grade.

But given the low expectations of MCPS honors and AP courses, it's easy for a student to prepare for 2nd level courses during the downtime after enrolled courses.

For example, students at Blair magnet cover honors physics, chemistry, algebra 2, precalculus, and computer science 1 in one single-period semester each, all in 9th grade.

A student at another school could do the same via self-study of 1 of those courses for each course taken at MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.

Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.

Yes you can.

Do you know someone who did it in MCPS? Was there an approval process?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS allows APs starting in 9th grade for social science (usually AP Gov and Pol) and tech requirements (usually AP Computer Science Principles). But not for math, because of the state requirement of one math class every year (most high schools don't have 3 more math classes after AP Calc BC, so it means dual enrollment at Montgomery College or a UMD course) and usually not for science, because the College Board has prerequisites for AP Physic C, AP Chem and AP Bio that are usually not met by 9th grade.

That being said, my kid and some others have taken AP Calc BC in 10th, because they'd been on that pathway since middle school due to taking Alg 1 in 6th, or coming from different school systems with accelerated math. Which means they can take AP Phys C starting in 10th as well, since it has a calculus requirement. Theoretically, AP Chem and AP Bio need their Honors counterparts first, but I have found that if you demonstrate proficiency in math and one hard science, science coordinators let the kid off the hook for the other hard science's pre-requisites. AP Bio and AP Chem are double periods at most (if not all?) MCPS high schools, so they're a little difficult to fit in if the student also wants to take various classes in other disciplines.

I haven't heard of placement tests for any of these. They just look at previous coursework and go from there. Before middle school, my kid did have a placement test for Alg 1.

Thank you.

"9th grade" isn't the primary focus. Obviously no one is taking all these AP courses in 9th grade.

But given the low expectations of MCPS honors and AP courses, it's easy for a student to prepare for 2nd level courses during the downtime after enrolled courses.

For example, students at Blair magnet cover honors physics, chemistry, algebra 2, precalculus, and computer science 1 in one single-period semester each, all in 9th grade.

A student at another school could do the same via self-study of 1 of those courses for each course taken at MCPS.

What classes is the student trying to skip and why? If they are trying to jump into Physics C directly, just don’t. It’s a terrible idea, you need some kind of introductory course, there’s no shortcut to that. Blair magnet crams two semesters of honors physics in one, it’s doubtful one could do that as self study or during “down time”.

Are you following a textbook or curriculum, hiring a tutor?

Sounds like tiger parenting gone crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS allows APs starting in 9th grade for social science (usually AP Gov and Pol) and tech requirements (usually AP Computer Science Principles). But not for math, because of the state requirement of one math class every year (most high schools don't have 3 more math classes after AP Calc BC, so it means dual enrollment at Montgomery College or a UMD course) and usually not for science, because the College Board has prerequisites for AP Physic C, AP Chem and AP Bio that are usually not met by 9th grade.

That being said, my kid and some others have taken AP Calc BC in 10th, because they'd been on that pathway since middle school due to taking Alg 1 in 6th, or coming from different school systems with accelerated math. Which means they can take AP Phys C starting in 10th as well, since it has a calculus requirement. Theoretically, AP Chem and AP Bio need their Honors counterparts first, but I have found that if you demonstrate proficiency in math and one hard science, science coordinators let the kid off the hook for the other hard science's pre-requisites. AP Bio and AP Chem are double periods at most (if not all?) MCPS high schools, so they're a little difficult to fit in if the student also wants to take various classes in other disciplines.

I haven't heard of placement tests for any of these. They just look at previous coursework and go from there. Before middle school, my kid did have a placement test for Alg 1.

Thank you.

"9th grade" isn't the primary focus. Obviously no one is taking all these AP courses in 9th grade.

But given the low expectations of MCPS honors and AP courses, it's easy for a student to prepare for 2nd level courses during the downtime after enrolled courses.

For example, students at Blair magnet cover honors physics, chemistry, algebra 2, precalculus, and computer science 1 in one single-period semester each, all in 9th grade.

A student at another school could do the same via self-study of 1 of those courses for each course taken at MCPS.

What classes is the student trying to skip and why? If they are trying to jump into Physics C directly, just don’t. It’s a terrible idea, you need some kind of introductory course, there’s no shortcut to that. Blair magnet crams two semesters of honors physics in one, it’s doubtful one could do that as self study or during “down time”.

Are you following a textbook or curriculum, hiring a tutor?

Sounds like tiger parenting gone crazy.

Actually, Physics C has no prerequisites apart from calculus, according to the college board. You do not need an intro course in physics to take Physics C. You need calculus.

The College Board strongly recommends intro courses in chemistry and biology before taking AP Chem and AP Bio, though. You can self-study for them, but MCPS is not required to accept it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS allows APs starting in 9th grade for social science (usually AP Gov and Pol) and tech requirements (usually AP Computer Science Principles). But not for math, because of the state requirement of one math class every year (most high schools don't have 3 more math classes after AP Calc BC, so it means dual enrollment at Montgomery College or a UMD course) and usually not for science, because the College Board has prerequisites for AP Physic C, AP Chem and AP Bio that are usually not met by 9th grade.

That being said, my kid and some others have taken AP Calc BC in 10th, because they'd been on that pathway since middle school due to taking Alg 1 in 6th, or coming from different school systems with accelerated math. Which means they can take AP Phys C starting in 10th as well, since it has a calculus requirement. Theoretically, AP Chem and AP Bio need their Honors counterparts first, but I have found that if you demonstrate proficiency in math and one hard science, science coordinators let the kid off the hook for the other hard science's pre-requisites. AP Bio and AP Chem are double periods at most (if not all?) MCPS high schools, so they're a little difficult to fit in if the student also wants to take various classes in other disciplines.

I haven't heard of placement tests for any of these. They just look at previous coursework and go from there. Before middle school, my kid did have a placement test for Alg 1.

Thank you.

"9th grade" isn't the primary focus. Obviously no one is taking all these AP courses in 9th grade.

But given the low expectations of MCPS honors and AP courses, it's easy for a student to prepare for 2nd level courses during the downtime after enrolled courses.

For example, students at Blair magnet cover honors physics, chemistry, algebra 2, precalculus, and computer science 1 in one single-period semester each, all in 9th grade.

A student at another school could do the same via self-study of 1 of those courses for each course taken at MCPS.

What classes is the student trying to skip and why? If they are trying to jump into Physics C directly, just don’t. It’s a terrible idea, you need some kind of introductory course, there’s no shortcut to that. Blair magnet crams two semesters of honors physics in one, it’s doubtful one could do that as self study or during “down time”.

Are you following a textbook or curriculum, hiring a tutor?

Sounds like tiger parenting gone crazy.

Actually, Physics C has no prerequisites apart from calculus, according to the college board. You do not need an intro course in physics to take Physics C. You need calculus.

The College Board strongly recommends intro courses in chemistry and biology before taking AP Chem and AP Bio, though. You can self-study for them, but MCPS is not required to accept it.

It’s not about what’s required, it’s about what makes most sense to be successful in the class. You can self study for everything, including Physics C and even take the exam to get some credit. It’s not advisable and if you’re doing it for college admissions it’s not going to help much.

The only viable option is to still take the introductory courses but do them through dual enrollment at the local community college. Usually they have an intro class some with lab that roughly matches an introductory high school class and it’s done over one semester. They might be accepted by the high school to skip AP prerequisites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.

To graduate, they need one NGSS-aligned course each in life science, physical science, and Earth/space science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.

Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.

But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.

[Anonymous]

My kid is a senior now but when she was freshmen at Whitman there was a friend in 9th whose mother convinced the school to let her DD take AP Physics, so she could do the Physics advancements each year.

Yes, very, very pushy, almost insane mother who also got her to take the SAT from the age of 13 every single year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.

Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.

But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.

What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes? There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.

There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.

Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/

UC Scout for AP classes.
https://www.ucscout.org/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS allows APs starting in 9th grade for social science (usually AP Gov and Pol) and tech requirements (usually AP Computer Science Principles). But not for math, because of the state requirement of one math class every year (most high schools don't have 3 more math classes after AP Calc BC, so it means dual enrollment at Montgomery College or a UMD course) and usually not for science, because the College Board has prerequisites for AP Physic C, AP Chem and AP Bio that are usually not met by 9th grade.

That being said, my kid and some others have taken AP Calc BC in 10th, because they'd been on that pathway since middle school due to taking Alg 1 in 6th, or coming from different school systems with accelerated math. Which means they can take AP Phys C starting in 10th as well, since it has a calculus requirement. Theoretically, AP Chem and AP Bio need their Honors counterparts first, but I have found that if you demonstrate proficiency in math and one hard science, science coordinators let the kid off the hook for the other hard science's pre-requisites. AP Bio and AP Chem are double periods at most (if not all?) MCPS high schools, so they're a little difficult to fit in if the student also wants to take various classes in other disciplines.

I haven't heard of placement tests for any of these. They just look at previous coursework and go from there. Before middle school, my kid did have a placement test for Alg 1.

Thank you.

"9th grade" isn't the primary focus. Obviously no one is taking all these AP courses in 9th grade.

But given the low expectations of MCPS honors and AP courses, it's easy for a student to prepare for 2nd level courses during the downtime after enrolled courses.

For example, students at Blair magnet cover honors physics, chemistry, algebra 2, precalculus, and computer science 1 in one single-period semester each, all in 9th grade.

A student at another school could do the same via self-study of 1 of those courses for each course taken at MCPS.

What classes is the student trying to skip and why? If they are trying to jump into Physics C directly, just don’t. It’s a terrible idea, you need some kind of introductory course, there’s no shortcut to that. Blair magnet crams two semesters of honors physics in one, it’s doubtful one could do that as self study or during “down time”.

Are you following a textbook or curriculum, hiring a tutor?

Sounds like tiger parenting gone crazy.

Actually, Physics C has no prerequisites apart from calculus, according to the college board. You do not need an intro course in physics to take Physics C. You need calculus.

The College Board strongly recommends intro courses in chemistry and biology before taking AP Chem and AP Bio, though. You can self-study for them, but MCPS is not required to accept it.

It is extremely unlikely students will do well going straight to AP Physics C without an introductory course even outside of school as enrichment.

Sometimes you see students going straight into AP Physics 1, but even that is likely to end up badly.

Suppose they go straight to AP and because they are not prepared they get a bad grade in class and a 2 in the AP exam. That accomplished nothing because there’s no college credit and they wasted a whole year while wrecking their GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.

Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.

But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.

What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes? There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.

There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.


Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/

UC Scout for AP classes.
https://www.ucscout.org/

New poster here. Not sure what OP's motivations are, but speaking for myself, the actual goal is to be able to take more advanced STEM classes and/or a greater variety of non-STEM classes. Things like genetics, organic chemistry or art, history, FL, music.

Simply put, the fewer classes are fixed, the more options students have to take what interests them. Pre-requisites eat up the time slots and some students don't need them. Many countries have chemistry and physics in middle school - classes that are very similar to AP physics 1 and honors chemistry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.

Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.

But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.

What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes? There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.

There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.


Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/

UC Scout for AP classes.
https://www.ucscout.org/

New poster here. Not sure what OP's motivations are, but speaking for myself, the actual goal is to be able to take more advanced STEM classes and/or a greater variety of non-STEM classes. Things like genetics, organic chemistry or art, history, FL, music.

Simply put, the fewer classes are fixed, the more options students have to take what interests them. Pre-requisites eat up the time slots and some students don't need them. Many countries have chemistry and physics in middle school - classes that are very similar to AP physics 1 and honors chemistry.

Don’t be ridiculous, middle school classes are nothing like AP Physics 1. You can’t take genetics and organic chemistry without college level general chemistry and biology, it’s just plain silly. And nope, college level introductory chemistry can’t be substituted with middle (high) school chemistry.

If your goal is to take more varied classes beyond what’s available in a typical high school, consider early college options:

https://www.montgomerycollege.edu/high-school-students/dual-enrollment/degree-and-pathway-programs/early-college-program/index.html

Usually they are more flexible with placement and prerequisites, you can get credit by examination etc. and you can take the classes you listed. You will still need to show you mastered the prerequisites in some way, they won’t take your word that “some students don’t need them”. Also you’ll have a much harder time to skip if the prerequisite has a lab portion.

[Anonymous]

This is a school-specific question. Our school has had different policies over the years. You're going to get a lot of conflicting answers here because all of the posters have experience with different administrations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.

Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.

But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.

What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes? There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.

There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.


Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/

UC Scout for AP classes.
https://www.ucscout.org/

New poster here. Not sure what OP's motivations are, but speaking for myself, the actual goal is to be able to take more advanced STEM classes and/or a greater variety of non-STEM classes. Things like genetics, organic chemistry or art, history, FL, music.

Simply put, the fewer classes are fixed, the more options students have to take what interests them. Pre-requisites eat up the time slots and some students don't need them. Many countries have chemistry and physics in middle school - classes that are very similar to AP physics 1 and honors chemistry.

Don’t be ridiculous, middle school classes are nothing like AP Physics 1. You can’t take genetics and organic chemistry without college level general chemistry and biology, it’s just plain silly. And nope, college level introductory chemistry can’t be substituted with middle (high) school chemistry.

If your goal is to take more varied classes beyond what’s available in a typical high school, consider early college options:

https://www.montgomerycollege.edu/high-school-students/dual-enrollment/degree-and-pathway-programs/early-college-program/index.html

Usually they are more flexible with placement and prerequisites, you can get credit by examination etc. and you can take the classes you listed. You will still need to show you mastered the prerequisites in some way, they won’t take your word that “some students don’t need them”. Also you’ll have a much harder time to skip if the prerequisite has a lab portion.

You mean in MCPS? I agree. But we have experience abroad and the middle school classes were in fact very similar to AP Physics 1 and HS honors chemistry in MCPS. Many countries have medicine as an undergraduate degree and their middle school and HS classes reflect that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"AP" Computer Science Principles is another example of an intro class to skip.

It's very useful to fulfill the tech requirement for kids looking to boost their GPA and who aren't interested in doing other computer science classes. There's AP Java, but that has a prerequisite, so most kids can't take it in 9th grade.

Of course kids who don't like computer science very much are welcome to take Principles if they want to. But kids who want to learn computer science want to take courses that will teach them computer science they haven't already learned in middle school courses and summer camps.

I think the point is that it’s the only AP that fulfills the tech requirement. The higher ones like Java don’t. So if you don’t take csp, you have to take a non-AP tech class, which some may not want to do. Per the website, the only classes permitted to fulfill the requirement are:

“Foundations of Technology A/B
Foundations of Computer Science A/B
Foundations of Engineering & Technology A/B
Introduction to Engineering Design A/B
AP Computer Science Principles, TE A/B
IB Computer Science 1 TE A/B”

IB isn’t available at most schools.