skipping intro classes on HS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.

Biology is a prerequisite for AP Biology. Chemistry is a prerequisite for AP Chemistry. No, you cannot just skip those classes.

But there is not much time to try to take a higher level science class while in HS ( for ex..one at Montgomery College or another college/virtual) if you don't skip the intro classes and some students are more than capable to skipping the intro classes.

What is the actual goal going straight to AP classes? There’s a reason they have prerequisites, how do you know your child is “more than capable” to skip into those classes? You need to be more specific about what grade your child is in and what classes they want to take. Plenty of students take APs in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at their high school while satisfying the prerequisites, usually one can double up in science by taking electives. AP and Dual Enrollment are equivalent, you don’t need to take both. Some students take post AP classes like Multivariable in math through Dual Enrollment or at magnets.

There’s are some online options, but likely they won’t be recognized by the local district.


Silicon Valley High School for introductory classes:
https://svhs.co/

UC Scout for AP classes.
https://www.ucscout.org/

New poster here. Not sure what OP's motivations are, but speaking for myself, the actual goal is to be able to take more advanced STEM classes and/or a greater variety of non-STEM classes. Things like genetics, organic chemistry or art, history, FL, music.

Simply put, the fewer classes are fixed, the more options students have to take what interests them. Pre-requisites eat up the time slots and some students don't need them. Many countries have chemistry and physics in middle school - classes that are very similar to AP physics 1 and honors chemistry.

Don’t be ridiculous, middle school classes are nothing like AP Physics 1. You can’t take genetics and organic chemistry without college level general chemistry and biology, it’s just plain silly. And nope, college level introductory chemistry can’t be substituted with middle (high) school chemistry.

If your goal is to take more varied classes beyond what’s available in a typical high school, consider early college options:

https://www.montgomerycollege.edu/high-school-students/dual-enrollment/degree-and-pathway-programs/early-college-program/index.html

Usually they are more flexible with placement and prerequisites, you can get credit by examination etc. and you can take the classes you listed. You will still need to show you mastered the prerequisites in some way, they won’t take your word that “some students don’t need them”. Also you’ll have a much harder time to skip if the prerequisite has a lab portion.

You mean in MCPS? I agree. But we have experience abroad and the middle school classes were in fact very similar to AP Physics 1 and HS honors chemistry in MCPS. Many countries have medicine as an undergraduate degree and their middle school and HS classes reflect that.

No they don’t. I also come from a country with medicine as undergraduate degree. You still have to take college physics and chemistry, way above high school and middle school curriculum.

If you actually want good advice clarify what grade the child is in, what classes he took so far, what classes he wants to skip and which they want to join, and what school they are currently attending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are prerequisites for a reason. Unless you can document that you have taken the equivalent course already, you aren’t going to be able to just skip prerequisites.

Some schools have prerequisites for AP classes that aren't actually required by AP itself. For example, my DD took AP Lang her sophomore year. Honestly, she could have taken it as a freshman. I had to press the school to allow it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS allows APs starting in 9th grade for social science (usually AP Gov and Pol) and tech requirements (usually AP Computer Science Principles). But not for math, because of the state requirement of one math class every year (most high schools don't have 3 more math classes after AP Calc BC, so it means dual enrollment at Montgomery College or a UMD course) and usually not for science, because the College Board has prerequisites for AP Physic C, AP Chem and AP Bio that are usually not met by 9th grade.

That being said, my kid and some others have taken AP Calc BC in 10th, because they'd been on that pathway since middle school due to taking Alg 1 in 6th, or coming from different school systems with accelerated math. Which means they can take AP Phys C starting in 10th as well, since it has a calculus requirement. Theoretically, AP Chem and AP Bio need their Honors counterparts first, but I have found that if you demonstrate proficiency in math and one hard science, science coordinators let the kid off the hook for the other hard science's pre-requisites. AP Bio and AP Chem are double periods at most (if not all?) MCPS high schools, so they're a little difficult to fit in if the student also wants to take various classes in other disciplines.

I haven't heard of placement tests for any of these. They just look at previous coursework and go from there. Before middle school, my kid did have a placement test for Alg 1.

Thank you.

"9th grade" isn't the primary focus. Obviously no one is taking all these AP courses in 9th grade.

But given the low expectations of MCPS honors and AP courses, it's easy for a student to prepare for 2nd level courses during the downtime after enrolled courses.

For example, students at Blair magnet cover honors physics, chemistry, algebra 2, precalculus, and computer science 1 in one single-period semester each, all in 9th grade.

A student at another school could do the same via self-study of 1 of those courses for each course taken at MCPS.

What classes is the student trying to skip and why? If they are trying to jump into Physics C directly, just don’t. It’s a terrible idea, you need some kind of introductory course, there’s no shortcut to that. Blair magnet crams two semesters of honors physics in one, it’s doubtful one could do that as self study or during “down time”.

Are you following a textbook or curriculum, hiring a tutor?

Sounds like tiger parenting gone crazy.

What does "jump into Physics C directly" mean? The only prerequisite from AP for AP Physics C is to have taken Calculus already or concurrently. My DC took AP Physics C while taking AP Calc A. It was not a problem and he got 4s and 5s on the AP exam (which is 2 exams - mechanics and electromagnetic).

It's not "tiger parenting". This was the child's choice. Some high IQ kids need and want challenge - especially true for high IQ kids with ADHD who need to be able to use the hyper focus to get through school. Hyperfocus only kicks in if they are interested in the subject and it is challenging. Both my kids recognized this about themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS allows APs starting in 9th grade for social science (usually AP Gov and Pol) and tech requirements (usually AP Computer Science Principles). But not for math, because of the state requirement of one math class every year (most high schools don't have 3 more math classes after AP Calc BC, so it means dual enrollment at Montgomery College or a UMD course) and usually not for science, because the College Board has prerequisites for AP Physic C, AP Chem and AP Bio that are usually not met by 9th grade.

That being said, my kid and some others have taken AP Calc BC in 10th, because they'd been on that pathway since middle school due to taking Alg 1 in 6th, or coming from different school systems with accelerated math. Which means they can take AP Phys C starting in 10th as well, since it has a calculus requirement. Theoretically, AP Chem and AP Bio need their Honors counterparts first, but I have found that if you demonstrate proficiency in math and one hard science, science coordinators let the kid off the hook for the other hard science's pre-requisites. AP Bio and AP Chem are double periods at most (if not all?) MCPS high schools, so they're a little difficult to fit in if the student also wants to take various classes in other disciplines.

I haven't heard of placement tests for any of these. They just look at previous coursework and go from there. Before middle school, my kid did have a placement test for Alg 1.

Thank you.

"9th grade" isn't the primary focus. Obviously no one is taking all these AP courses in 9th grade.

But given the low expectations of MCPS honors and AP courses, it's easy for a student to prepare for 2nd level courses during the downtime after enrolled courses.

For example, students at Blair magnet cover honors physics, chemistry, algebra 2, precalculus, and computer science 1 in one single-period semester each, all in 9th grade.

A student at another school could do the same via self-study of 1 of those courses for each course taken at MCPS.

What classes is the student trying to skip and why? If they are trying to jump into Physics C directly, just don’t. It’s a terrible idea, you need some kind of introductory course, there’s no shortcut to that. Blair magnet crams two semesters of honors physics in one, it’s doubtful one could do that as self study or during “down time”.

Are you following a textbook or curriculum, hiring a tutor?

Sounds like tiger parenting gone crazy.

What does "jump into Physics C directly" mean? The only prerequisite from AP for AP Physics C is to have taken Calculus already or concurrently. My DC took AP Physics C while taking AP Calc A. It was not a problem and he got 4s and 5s on the AP exam (which is 2 exams - mechanics and electromagnetic).

It's not "tiger parenting". This was the child's choice. Some high IQ kids need and want challenge - especially true for high IQ kids with ADHD who need to be able to use the hyper focus to get through school. Hyperfocus only kicks in if they are interested in the subject and it is challenging. Both my kids recognized this about themselves.

Did they take any physics before, what grade were they in for the AP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are prerequisites for a reason. Unless you can document that you have taken the equivalent course already, you aren’t going to be able to just skip prerequisites.

Some schools have prerequisites for AP classes that aren't actually required by AP itself. For example, my DD took AP Lang her sophomore year. Honestly, she could have taken it as a freshman. I had to press the school to allow it.

There are only 2 AP English courses. What’s left for senior year English?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS allows APs starting in 9th grade for social science (usually AP Gov and Pol) and tech requirements (usually AP Computer Science Principles). But not for math, because of the state requirement of one math class every year (most high schools don't have 3 more math classes after AP Calc BC, so it means dual enrollment at Montgomery College or a UMD course) and usually not for science, because the College Board has prerequisites for AP Physic C, AP Chem and AP Bio that are usually not met by 9th grade.

That being said, my kid and some others have taken AP Calc BC in 10th, because they'd been on that pathway since middle school due to taking Alg 1 in 6th, or coming from different school systems with accelerated math. Which means they can take AP Phys C starting in 10th as well, since it has a calculus requirement. Theoretically, AP Chem and AP Bio need their Honors counterparts first, but I have found that if you demonstrate proficiency in math and one hard science, science coordinators let the kid off the hook for the other hard science's pre-requisites. AP Bio and AP Chem are double periods at most (if not all?) MCPS high schools, so they're a little difficult to fit in if the student also wants to take various classes in other disciplines.

I haven't heard of placement tests for any of these. They just look at previous coursework and go from there. Before middle school, my kid did have a placement test for Alg 1.

Thank you.

"9th grade" isn't the primary focus. Obviously no one is taking all these AP courses in 9th grade.

But given the low expectations of MCPS honors and AP courses, it's easy for a student to prepare for 2nd level courses during the downtime after enrolled courses.

For example, students at Blair magnet cover honors physics, chemistry, algebra 2, precalculus, and computer science 1 in one single-period semester each, all in 9th grade.

A student at another school could do the same via self-study of 1 of those courses for each course taken at MCPS.

What classes is the student trying to skip and why? If they are trying to jump into Physics C directly, just don’t. It’s a terrible idea, you need some kind of introductory course, there’s no shortcut to that. Blair magnet crams two semesters of honors physics in one, it’s doubtful one could do that as self study or during “down time”.

Are you following a textbook or curriculum, hiring a tutor?

Sounds like tiger parenting gone crazy.

What does "jump into Physics C directly" mean? The only prerequisite from AP for AP Physics C is to have taken Calculus already or concurrently. My DC took AP Physics C while taking AP Calc A. It was not a problem and he got 4s and 5s on the AP exam (which is 2 exams - mechanics and electromagnetic).

It's not "tiger parenting". This was the child's choice. Some high IQ kids need and want challenge - especially true for high IQ kids with ADHD who need to be able to use the hyper focus to get through school. Hyperfocus only kicks in if they are interested in the subject and it is challenging. Both my kids recognized this about themselves.

The 4 is a slight problem . Maybe an extra semester or year would have helped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are prerequisites for a reason. Unless you can document that you have taken the equivalent course already, you aren’t going to be able to just skip prerequisites.

Some schools have prerequisites for AP classes that aren't actually required by AP itself. For example, my DD took AP Lang her sophomore year. Honestly, she could have taken it as a freshman. I had to press the school to allow it.

There are only 2 AP English courses. What’s left for senior year English?

Creative writing, journalism, etc. Lots of choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"AP" Computer Science Principles is another example of an intro class to skip.

It's very useful to fulfill the tech requirement for kids looking to boost their GPA and who aren't interested in doing other computer science classes. There's AP Java, but that has a prerequisite, so most kids can't take it in 9th grade.

Of course kids who don't like computer science very much are welcome to take Principles if they want to. But kids who want to learn computer science want to take courses that will teach them computer science they haven't already learned in middle school courses and summer camps.

I think the point is that it’s the only AP that fulfills the tech requirement. The higher ones like Java don’t. So if you don’t take csp, you have to take a non-AP tech class, which some may not want to do. Per the website, the only classes permitted to fulfill the requirement are:

“Foundations of Technology A/B
Foundations of Computer Science A/B
Foundations of Engineering & Technology A/B
Introduction to Engineering Design A/B
AP Computer Science Principles, TE A/B
IB Computer Science 1 TE A/B”

IB isn’t available at most schools.

Yes that’s miserable nonsense. Many kids goof around in Foundations of CS in middle school (almost the same class as AP Principles) to get around that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to take Biology, Chemistry and I forget what else as graduation requirements but if they offer AP yes you can take them directly. With math you go to the next class and if its an AP you can take it.

To graduate, they need one NGSS-aligned course each in life science, physical science, and Earth/space science.

Not quite. A second physical science can replace the Earth/Space science.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YrEkTlllux6C_tiILO9543YUBrRuOK45/view

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are prerequisites for a reason. Unless you can document that you have taken the equivalent course already, you aren’t going to be able to just skip prerequisites.

My two younger kids never took regular social studies or science courses in HS. They went straight into AP as ninth graders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS allows APs starting in 9th grade for social science (usually AP Gov and Pol) and tech requirements (usually AP Computer Science Principles). But not for math, because of the state requirement of one math class every year (most high schools don't have 3 more math classes after AP Calc BC, so it means dual enrollment at Montgomery College or a UMD course) and usually not for science, because the College Board has prerequisites for AP Physic C, AP Chem and AP Bio that are usually not met by 9th grade.

That being said, my kid and some others have taken AP Calc BC in 10th, because they'd been on that pathway since middle school due to taking Alg 1 in 6th, or coming from different school systems with accelerated math. Which means they can take AP Phys C starting in 10th as well, since it has a calculus requirement. Theoretically, AP Chem and AP Bio need their Honors counterparts first, but I have found that if you demonstrate proficiency in math and one hard science, science coordinators let the kid off the hook for the other hard science's pre-requisites. AP Bio and AP Chem are double periods at most (if not all?) MCPS high schools, so they're a little difficult to fit in if the student also wants to take various classes in other disciplines.

I haven't heard of placement tests for any of these. They just look at previous coursework and go from there. Before middle school, my kid did have a placement test for Alg 1.

Thank you.

"9th grade" isn't the primary focus. Obviously no one is taking all these AP courses in 9th grade.

But given the low expectations of MCPS honors and AP courses, it's easy for a student to prepare for 2nd level courses during the downtime after enrolled courses.

For example, students at Blair magnet cover honors physics, chemistry, algebra 2, precalculus, and computer science 1 in one single-period semester each, all in 9th grade.

A student at another school could do the same via self-study of 1 of those courses for each course taken at MCPS.

What classes is the student trying to skip and why? If they are trying to jump into Physics C directly, just don’t. It’s a terrible idea, you need some kind of introductory course, there’s no shortcut to that. Blair magnet crams two semesters of honors physics in one, it’s doubtful one could do that as self study or during “down time”.

Are you following a textbook or curriculum, hiring a tutor?

Sounds like tiger parenting gone crazy.

Actually, Physics C has no prerequisites apart from calculus, according to the college board. You do not need an intro course in physics to take Physics C. You need calculus.

The College Board strongly recommends intro courses in chemistry and biology before taking AP Chem and AP Bio, though. You can self-study for them, but MCPS is not required to accept it.

It is extremely unlikely students will do well going straight to AP Physics C without an introductory course even outside of school as enrichment.

Sometimes you see students going straight into AP Physics 1, but even that is likely to end up badly.

Suppose they go straight to AP and because they are not prepared they get a bad grade in class and a 2 in the AP exam. That accomplished nothing because there’s no college credit and they wasted a whole year while wrecking their GPA.

This is ridiculous. There are approximately 0 people who take HS physics before 12th and then take AP Physics 1. Practically no one who is that weak a science/math student would be able and willingto take 2 years of physics in high school.

“Recommended Prerequisites: You should have completed a geometry course and be concurrently taking Algebra II or an equivalent course.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are prerequisites for a reason. Unless you can document that you have taken the equivalent course already, you aren’t going to be able to just skip prerequisites.

My two younger kids never took regular social studies or science courses in HS. They went straight into AP as ninth graders.

In MCPS? What was the process?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a senior now but when she was freshmen at Whitman there was a friend in 9th whose mother convinced the school to let her DD take AP Physics, so she could do the Physics advancements each year.

Yes, very, very pushy, almost insane mother who also got her to take the SAT from the age of 13 every single year.

Middle school program CTY requires SAT or equivalent test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS allows APs starting in 9th grade for social science (usually AP Gov and Pol) and tech requirements (usually AP Computer Science Principles). But not for math, because of the state requirement of one math class every year (most high schools don't have 3 more math classes after AP Calc BC, so it means dual enrollment at Montgomery College or a UMD course) and usually not for science, because the College Board has prerequisites for AP Physic C, AP Chem and AP Bio that are usually not met by 9th grade.

That being said, my kid and some others have taken AP Calc BC in 10th, because they'd been on that pathway since middle school due to taking Alg 1 in 6th, or coming from different school systems with accelerated math. Which means they can take AP Phys C starting in 10th as well, since it has a calculus requirement. Theoretically, AP Chem and AP Bio need their Honors counterparts first, but I have found that if you demonstrate proficiency in math and one hard science, science coordinators let the kid off the hook for the other hard science's pre-requisites. AP Bio and AP Chem are double periods at most (if not all?) MCPS high schools, so they're a little difficult to fit in if the student also wants to take various classes in other disciplines.

I haven't heard of placement tests for any of these. They just look at previous coursework and go from there. Before middle school, my kid did have a placement test for Alg 1.

Thank you.

"9th grade" isn't the primary focus. Obviously no one is taking all these AP courses in 9th grade.

But given the low expectations of MCPS honors and AP courses, it's easy for a student to prepare for 2nd level courses during the downtime after enrolled courses.

For example, students at Blair magnet cover honors physics, chemistry, algebra 2, precalculus, and computer science 1 in one single-period semester each, all in 9th grade.

A student at another school could do the same via self-study of 1 of those courses for each course taken at MCPS.

What classes is the student trying to skip and why? If they are trying to jump into Physics C directly, just don’t. It’s a terrible idea, you need some kind of introductory course, there’s no shortcut to that. Blair magnet crams two semesters of honors physics in one, it’s doubtful one could do that as self study or during “down time”.

Are you following a textbook or curriculum, hiring a tutor?

Sounds like tiger parenting gone crazy.

Why do you believe that if Blair magnet does it, a student not at Blair cannot do it? That’s not logical. Blair shows that one class period year with homework time budget is enough time to learn the objectives both honors physics and honors chemistry. And Blair magnet students take a whole extra 8th academic class on top of that! (But it’s a low homework lab class)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS allows APs starting in 9th grade for social science (usually AP Gov and Pol) and tech requirements (usually AP Computer Science Principles). But not for math, because of the state requirement of one math class every year (most high schools don't have 3 more math classes after AP Calc BC, so it means dual enrollment at Montgomery College or a UMD course) and usually not for science, because the College Board has prerequisites for AP Physic C, AP Chem and AP Bio that are usually not met by 9th grade.

That being said, my kid and some others have taken AP Calc BC in 10th, because they'd been on that pathway since middle school due to taking Alg 1 in 6th, or coming from different school systems with accelerated math. Which means they can take AP Phys C starting in 10th as well, since it has a calculus requirement. Theoretically, AP Chem and AP Bio need their Honors counterparts first, but I have found that if you demonstrate proficiency in math and one hard science, science coordinators let the kid off the hook for the other hard science's pre-requisites. AP Bio and AP Chem are double periods at most (if not all?) MCPS high schools, so they're a little difficult to fit in if the student also wants to take various classes in other disciplines.

I haven't heard of placement tests for any of these. They just look at previous coursework and go from there. Before middle school, my kid did have a placement test for Alg 1.

Thank you.

"9th grade" isn't the primary focus. Obviously no one is taking all these AP courses in 9th grade.

But given the low expectations of MCPS honors and AP courses, it's easy for a student to prepare for 2nd level courses during the downtime after enrolled courses.

For example, students at Blair magnet cover honors physics, chemistry, algebra 2, precalculus, and computer science 1 in one single-period semester each, all in 9th grade.

A student at another school could do the same via self-study of 1 of those courses for each course taken at MCPS.

What classes is the student trying to skip and why? If they are trying to jump into Physics C directly, just don’t. It’s a terrible idea, you need some kind of introductory course, there’s no shortcut to that. Blair magnet crams two semesters of honors physics in one, it’s doubtful one could do that as self study or during “down time”.

Are you following a textbook or curriculum, hiring a tutor?

Sounds like tiger parenting gone crazy.

What does "jump into Physics C directly" mean? The only prerequisite from AP for AP Physics C is to have taken Calculus already or concurrently. My DC took AP Physics C while taking AP Calc A. It was not a problem and he got 4s and 5s on the AP exam (which is 2 exams - mechanics and electromagnetic).

It's not "tiger parenting". This was the child's choice. Some high IQ kids need and want challenge - especially true for high IQ kids with ADHD who need to be able to use the hyper focus to get through school. Hyperfocus only kicks in if they are interested in the subject and it is challenging. Both my kids recognized this about themselves.

Did they take any physics before, what grade were they in for the AP?

No physics before. Taking Calc A concurrently. We did hire a tutor to get him up to speed on the calc required for AP Physics C, because the Physics class was using calc tools before he learned them. He has ADHD and learns best when he has a tutor with whom he can ask a lot of questions. The AP Physics teacher did spend a few weeks in the beginning helping them understand the calc tools, so I think another kind of student (a good reader willing to do practice problems and review errors) could have gotten along, but, again, that did not match DC's learning style.

I think it was jr. year, because it was during the pandemic in the fall before they went back to school full time, so that was another reason why we had a tutor at the beginning. Got As and Bs.