What’s happening to Bethesda, Montgomery Mall, etc.?

[Anonymous]

Bethesda is B-
https://crimegrade.org/violent-crime-bethesda-md/

And downtown is even worse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on this board wants to be told they're living in the most desirable place and so when they get jealous they post stuff about other places being bad.

Then other people who also don't live there and want validation in their choice yell crime. Even when someone says crime is actually less than other places those same folks go full Trump and just insist that it's crime.

Then someone who lives there comes on to say it's actually amazing.

Then someone else will say LOL.

Then the debate will move to be about 10 other areas someone just wants to use as an excuse to validate their choice.

Malls are dead everywhere. Brick and mortar continues to suffer. Bethesda is fine. Like every single place in this country it could use more pedestrian infrastructure that inevitably someone would then use to rail about a lack of parking.

I agree about malls declining everywhere and Montgomery Mall is doing surprisingly well despite uptick in robberies and assaults there.

I disagree about Bethesda being fine apart from lack of pedestrian infrastructure - although that would help. It needs big doses of creativity and culture and to bring back more interesting stores. Too bad they are building more apartments near Bethesda Row Landmark - that could have been green space for concerts and community get together.s. So little color and not enough trees. The art festivals are great but many of the artists are from out of area and very expensive. Maybe Bethesda could collab with glen echo park to host more local artists/ puppet shows/ bands and dances. Round House theater and Invagination Stage are awesome.

Oh I mean I absolutely don't want to live in Bethesda. But it's not like a hell hole or an abandoned strip mall. It's a rather generic wealthy suburb but that's what most of these boards want. They just want to prove the superiority of their wealthy generic suburb.

I think there's real opportunities, although apartments are not inherently bad. But people who have lots of money and crave a lot more arts and culture move to Georgetown or maybe Kalorama and people with just lots of money move to Takoma Park.

Most major cities don't have the huge suburbs around them that DC does. It's hard to be a small town and host major international business headquarters. So it's kind of chosen the path of wealthy enclave rather than rich small town suburb.

Yes exactly - generic wealthy and has allowed a lot of its character to be stripped away by building more generic apartments and offices, driving out small quirky businesses and not planning for enough community spaces.

It has definitely declined over past 20 years with extensive building of bland buildings. Barnes and Noble closing and all the high end luxury stores moved in while quirkier places got pushed out,

It can be fixed but it needs planners to be more creative, be intentional and to care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bethesda is B-
https://crimegrade.org/violent-crime-bethesda-md/

And downtown is even worse

Any retail areas are bad.

Clarendon (22201) is D+
Tysons (22102) is D-
Pentagon City Mall (22202) is D+

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wrote on a previous thread that I was disappointed in how Bethesda has turned out vs. when I moved away in 1998.

I was there for the days leading up to NYE 2023 and the NYE itself. With my family staying in a hotel near the Metro.

The metro complex and streetscape at night feels closed down, dark, uninviting. As do the office buildings. There was a person panhandling outside the Trader Joe's. Wouldn't surprise me in Chicago, but not what I'd expect to see in Bethesda.

The highlight was seeing a play at the local theater. The Tastee Diner was an oasis of cheer and a good dinner at a cheap price. The Chinese restaurant we ate at was very mediocre. I like bargain ethnic food but couldn't find believable good reviews of anywhere close by. It was the best we could do. The hotel we stayed at had a couple weddings but otherwise seemed pretty empty/not cheerfully bustling. There wasn't a First Night celebration as far as I could tell.

The streetscape along Rockville Pike is kind of a jumble of establishments - it just looks asymmetrical somehow. I also noticed that you could still see the remains of the Claire Dratch sign on the old store - I think it looks bad when old signage lingers. It suggests the buildings aren't rentable/aren't being maintained. In my little town, they've managed to keep buildings pretty low along the main 2 streets. And many have been fully renovated. I think that helps aesthetically. Bethesda is much richer and has more costly real estate so I don't know why it should look worse.

Basically, the town seemed a bit more overgrown without positive benefits. I saw on this site the slogan "communities not canyons" and that actually resonated with me.

I'm not a night owl, a drinker, or a young person. It just seemed to me that things weren't quite right. Maybe it was still the aftereffect of Covid.

Where do you live now? It would help understand the context of your observations.

I live in a small Midwestern city of 60K people with walkable streets, a low-rise civic center, and an entertainment district consisting of mid-priced (not designer or truly costly) specialty boutiques and restaurants. It's somewhat of a bar town for young people but not full of drunks. We had a Barnes & Noble and lost it also. It has a stage theater like Bethesda and a music theater where famous people sometimes play small venue concerts. The town has recently added several large office buildings, 3 tall parking garages, a chain hotel, and tall condo apartment buildings. Also built a new town hall, police station, and courthouse. (We hit a replacement cycle for 1950s infrastructure during a low interest rate time.) We don't have Metro but we have passenger rail and bus. When trolleys were a thing, it was a trolley suburb. It is not a wealthy town...most houses are old and smallish...below $300K.

I used to dream of buying a home in Bethesda. When I left the houses I wished for were small, old brick houses that "only" cost about $500K. I suppose now those are $1.3M. I was a fed and couldn't afford it. I still couldn't afford it today.

Where I live now is getting bigfooted also (losing the small town scale) BUT without a delivery mechanism like Metro, and height restrictions, it probably won't get built up like Bethesda. There's no large employer parallel to NIH, etc. So each big building needs to fill up and stabilize before there's an opportunity for a new one to make money.

I think the people above are right about dead zones and separated clusters of activity. My experience of Bethesda is very Metro and Rockville Pike centric. I understand the point about two big clusters of businesses. Also agree that construction zones can make things temporarily bad/sketchy for women to walk around at night.

A lot of this is subjective. It's just my feeling that things are not as nice as when I left. I read bad things about the direction of Friendship Heights too but haven't been back to experience it.

[Anonymous]

To those saying Montgomery Mall is dying.. have you even been there recently? Abercrombie took over the old Banana Republic space. Daughter very excited about that. Its been bustling every time Ive been there in past few months.
Food court is always crowded too.

[Anonymous]

>"generic wealthy suburb" being what most of these boards wants

im sorry but what else could you want? what else would the middle class American aspire to? what is next after generic wealthy suburb that is safe, has good schools, and one can sleep in peace and quiet? are you saying you'd rather live in ritzy beverly hills-style neighborhoods or gated communities like most of the sun belt cities? very weird critique of Bethesda, to be honest.

[Anonymous]

Kids these days aren’t calling it “Bethezdump” for nothing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To those saying Montgomery Mall is dying.. have you even been there recently? Abercrombie took over the old Banana Republic space. Daughter very excited about that. Its been bustling every time Ive been there in past few months.
Food court is always crowded too.

I actually like some of the food court offerings. We've gone there specifically for dinner a few times. This ain't your mother's mall food court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:>"generic wealthy suburb" being what most of these boards wants

im sorry but what else could you want? what else would the middle class American aspire to? what is next after generic wealthy suburb that is safe, has good schools, and one can sleep in peace and quiet? are you saying you'd rather live in ritzy beverly hills-style neighborhoods or gated communities like most of the sun belt cities? very weird critique of Bethesda, to be honest.

Not at all.

We have lived here for a long time and I would like Bethesda to have more personality, more community spaces, more color and art on the bland buildings, and more interesting independent stores that have been driven out.

Being a wealthy suburb does not have to mean looking like a setting for a bankers conference. Bethesda has the most PhD s per capita in the US (or used to anyway) and smart people usually aspire to cultural growth, artistic expression and a sense of place that is somewhat unique.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids these days aren’t calling it “Bethezdump” for nothing

More to do for youth would be good - skate board park/ community center with indoor basketball courts and pool table - similar to friendship heights above the whole foods…

[Anonymous]

The kids these day want walkable neighborhoods. Montgomery Mall is reasonably successful still. But malls are not where it's at anymore.

Also, Woodmont Triangle lost Barnes and Noble. Why would someone stick around after eating in a restaurant there? The stores are closed.

[Anonymous]

Bethesda has a decent nightlife, just it's in "old" Bethesda centered on Cordell Ave, not "new" Bethesda (Bethesda Row). I was out bar hopping in Bethesda last weekend, and finally went home at 2am. Places were decently busy even with the holiday weekend and lots of folks out of town.

The only places in new Bethesda with any nightlife are Salt Line, though their bar closes around midnight, and Barking Dog. Pisco y Nazca will open nearby soon, and that may help.

The area directly around the Metro is all office buildings and totally dead at night due to poor planning.

Then in old Bethesda, Caddie's and Tommy Joe's are lively not only at night but during the day on weekends if there's a game on. Down the block, La Catrina actually has a full-on nightclub on the second floor that does decently well. Also on the same block is Gringos & Mariachi's whcih draws a 30+ crowd at the bar. Then a block up, BT's just opened in the old Brickside space, and over another block On St Elmo opened up in the old Union Jacks/Shark Club space. Then Velvet Room (on Norfolk) just got approved for a liquor license and will open in a few months; and another place on the corner also will be opening soon. Also Babycat brewery is opening soon. Then Hanaro has rebranded as Kusshi and has potential with their newly-renovated bar, and Beth's Cafe in the old Positano space has potential if they stay open later. And let's not forget Hip Flask on the roof of the Marriott -- there is often a waitlist to get in on nice summer nights, if you can believe it.

The nightlife is there if you know where to look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bethesda has a decent nightlife, just it's in "old" Bethesda centered on Cordell Ave, not "new" Bethesda (Bethesda Row). I was out bar hopping in Bethesda last weekend, and finally went home at 2am. Places were decently busy even with the holiday weekend and lots of folks out of town.

The only places in new Bethesda with any nightlife are Salt Line, though their bar closes around midnight, and Barking Dog. Pisco y Nazca will open nearby soon, and that may help.

The area directly around the Metro is all office buildings and totally dead at night due to poor planning.

Then in old Bethesda, Caddie's and Tommy Joe's are lively not only at night but during the day on weekends if there's a game on. Down the block, La Catrina actually has a full-on nightclub on the second floor that does decently well. Also on the same block is Gringos & Mariachi's whcih draws a 30+ crowd at the bar. Then a block up, BT's just opened in the old Brickside space, and over another block On St Elmo opened up in the old Union Jacks/Shark Club space. Then Velvet Room (on Norfolk) just got approved for a liquor license and will open in a few months; and another place on the corner also will be opening soon. Also Babycat brewery is opening soon. Then Hanaro has rebranded as Kusshi and has potential with their newly-renovated bar, and Beth's Cafe in the old Positano space has potential if they stay open later. And let's not forget Hip Flask on the roof of the Marriott -- there is often a waitlist to get in on nice summer nights, if you can believe it.

The nightlife is there if you know where to look.

Awesome summary thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:>"generic wealthy suburb" being what most of these boards wants

im sorry but what else could you want? what else would the middle class American aspire to? what is next after generic wealthy suburb that is safe, has good schools, and one can sleep in peace and quiet? are you saying you'd rather live in ritzy beverly hills-style neighborhoods or gated communities like most of the sun belt cities? very weird critique of Bethesda, to be honest.

I don't really want to live in Beverly Hills but the flats are some of the most walkable areas in all of Los Angeles and go for massive amounts because even rich people like them.

Lots of very wealthy NYers sleep very comfortably and even walk around their neighborhoods and take transit.

And just wait until you hear about other countries.

Bethesda is an extremely homogeneous, increasingly generic suburb. It's what people want there and honestly fine. It's not a bad place. But the idea that no one sane would ever aspire to anything else is silly. There are plenty of places in DC itself where there is culture, safety, and gasp even schools where kids learn the same as the toni suburbs. And lots of middle class people want to live there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, it sounds like you’re at the stage of your life where you want it to be an extension of your college days. Bethesda is not for you. Bethesda is for people who have jobs with responsibility that require them to be up early in the morning, plus family responsibilities that also require early mornings. Bethesda has never catered to the college-aged crowd that just wants to drink themselves into oblivion every weekend.

Don't say "never." The Nighthawks used to play in bars there all the time. Remember the Twist & Shout? Mary Chapin Carpenter wrote a song about it.