What’s happening to Bethesda, Montgomery Mall, etc.?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Downtown Bethesda has terrible traffic and terrible parking. The stores are all high end and chains. So, nothing new or interesting. And, the things that used to make it interesting at night are gone, namely families, young couples, teens, etc. used to go to the movies, Barnes & Noble, get ice cream, and hang out by the fountain. All of that is missing and we stopped going long ago.

I will give you the terrible traffic: At times, it seems as if the lights are timed so that no one ever moves. Every single traffic light in Bethesda needs to be re-timed.

Saying Bethesda has terrible parking is just ridiculous, and is evidence of a profound unfamiliarity with Bethesda. There are multiple cheap garages and a massive surface lot off Wisconsin that always has plentiful spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like every place is more generic. All across the coutnry I see the same restaurants and the exact same looking apartments and townhomes—everything is owned and supplied by the same mega businesses. I saw an interview with a famous restiajrantejr recently (now I can’t remember who, but you would know him), and he was basically saying it’s nearly impossible to come up in the restaurant scene now as an independent and he would never make it now. It’s the same with the little stores and so forth….tje headwinds are all again unique and quirky.

That is depressing but probably true.

Still with intentionality and will, more could be done by Bethesda urban planners to mitigate the overwhelming blandness

There are no such people.

There are property owners, that's who you are talking about.

No that’s not who I am talking about. Property developers don’t get to operate in vacuums with no accountability or inputs - yet anyway.


Bethesda Downtown Implementation Advisory Committee

The Bethesda Downtown Implementation Advisory Committee (IAC) is an integral part of the Bethesda Downtown Sector Plan. This advisory group will work in coordination with the Montgomery County Planning Department, Bethesda Urban Partnership, Bethesda Chevy-Chase Regional Services Center and Bethesda Green by providing specific community and redevelopment expertise that would also serve as an interface between developers and County agencies in implementing the Bethesda Downtown Sector Plan recommendations. The IAC will be guided by the vision, goals and recommendations in the Approved and Adopted Bethesda Downtown Sector Plan, the Bethesda Downtown Design Guidelines, and the Bethesda Overlay Zone.

The role of the Committee is to coordinate and monitor the progress of development and address implementation of the recommendations in the Approved and Adopted Bethesda Downtown Sector Plan.

https://montgomeryplanning.org/planning/communities/downcounty/bethesda-downtown-plan/bethesda-downtown-implementation-advisory-committee/

The mission of the Bethesda Urban Partnership is to create an environment in which downtown businesses and residents can thrive and prosper.

https://www.bethesda.org/

How can we get more artists and creative types plus people who care about creating more community spaces and events on this Bethesda Urban Planning committee?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:>"generic wealthy suburb" being what most of these boards wants

im sorry but what else could you want? what else would the middle class American aspire to? what is next after generic wealthy suburb that is safe, has good schools, and one can sleep in peace and quiet? are you saying you'd rather live in ritzy beverly hills-style neighborhoods or gated communities like most of the sun belt cities? very weird critique of Bethesda, to be honest.

I don't really want to live in Beverly Hills but the flats are some of the most walkable areas in all of Los Angeles and go for massive amounts because even rich people like them.

Lots of very wealthy NYers sleep very comfortably and even walk around their neighborhoods and take transit.

And just wait until you hear about other countries.

Bethesda is an extremely homogeneous, increasingly generic suburb. It's what people want there and honestly fine. It's not a bad place. But the idea that no one sane would ever aspire to anything else is silly. There are plenty of places in DC itself where there is culture, safety, and gasp even schools where kids learn the same as the toni suburbs. And lots of middle class people want to live there.

Name me 3 of these places in DC itself. West of Rock Creek Park might as well be Bethesda. And east of rock creek park, the schools are bad unless you play the magnet game and it’s quite unsafe.

West of the Park might as well be Bethesda? And all of East of the Park is unsafe? I can tell you don't actually go into DC and are afraid of your own shadow but I mean you could live in Georgetown, Glover Park, Tenleytown, Shepherd Park, Cleveland Park. All would get you "good" schools with low crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:>"generic wealthy suburb" being what most of these boards wants

im sorry but what else could you want? what else would the middle class American aspire to? what is next after generic wealthy suburb that is safe, has good schools, and one can sleep in peace and quiet? are you saying you'd rather live in ritzy beverly hills-style neighborhoods or gated communities like most of the sun belt cities? very weird critique of Bethesda, to be honest.

I don't really want to live in Beverly Hills but the flats are some of the most walkable areas in all of Los Angeles and go for massive amounts because even rich people like them.

Lots of very wealthy NYers sleep very comfortably and even walk around their neighborhoods and take transit.

And just wait until you hear about other countries.

Bethesda is an extremely homogeneous, increasingly generic suburb. It's what people want there and honestly fine. It's not a bad place. But the idea that no one sane would ever aspire to anything else is silly. There are plenty of places in DC itself where there is culture, safety, and gasp even schools where kids learn the same as the toni suburbs. And lots of middle class people want to live there.

Name me 3 of these places in DC itself. West of Rock Creek Park might as well be Bethesda. And east of rock creek park, the schools are bad unless you play the magnet game and it’s quite unsafe.

West of the Park might as well be Bethesda? And all of East of the Park is unsafe? I can tell you don't actually go into DC and are afraid of your own shadow but I mean you could live in Georgetown, Glover Park, Tenleytown, Shepherd Park, Cleveland Park. All would get you "good" schools with low crime.

This is just Pp’s way of saying she’s scared of colored people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Downtown Bethesda has terrible traffic and terrible parking. The stores are all high end and chains. So, nothing new or interesting. And, the things that used to make it interesting at night are gone, namely families, young couples, teens, etc. used to go to the movies, Barnes & Noble, get ice cream, and hang out by the fountain. All of that is missing and we stopped going long ago.

Um, OK. I go all the time with my family, and there are tons of families there. Lots of family-friendly places to eat, great playground near the Giant, and a couple of gelato/ice cream places (the complaint about the lack of ice cream is odd). Not sure I understand the complaint about "high end chains" -- basically all of the restaurants are not chains. We actually prefer "old" Bethesda, though -- a bit less crowded and lots of interesting options there, including a new independent bookstore. Plus, it seems like there's some random festival or event every other weekend.

Seems like maybe you prefer chain stores given your fondness for Barnes & Noble and whatever chain ice cream store closed down. Maybe walk around and try some of the many independent places, such as the bookstore and ice cream places, that you apparently want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Downtown Bethesda has terrible traffic and terrible parking. The stores are all high end and chains. So, nothing new or interesting. And, the things that used to make it interesting at night are gone, namely families, young couples, teens, etc. used to go to the movies, Barnes & Noble, get ice cream, and hang out by the fountain. All of that is missing and we stopped going long ago.

Um, OK. I go all the time with my family, and there are tons of families there. Lots of family-friendly places to eat, great playground near the Giant, and a couple of gelato/ice cream places (the complaint about the lack of ice cream is odd). Not sure I understand the complaint about "high end chains" -- basically all of the restaurants are not chains. We actually prefer "old" Bethesda, though -- a bit less crowded and lots of interesting options there, including a new independent bookstore. Plus, it seems like there's some random festival or event every other weekend.

Seems like maybe you prefer chain stores given your fondness for Barnes & Noble and whatever chain ice cream store closed down. Maybe walk around and try some of the many independent places, such as the bookstore and ice cream places, that you apparently want.

You lost me at Giant. It’s the worst grocery chain in the region and can’t shut down soon enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Downtown Bethesda has terrible traffic and terrible parking. The stores are all high end and chains. So, nothing new or interesting. And, the things that used to make it interesting at night are gone, namely families, young couples, teens, etc. used to go to the movies, Barnes & Noble, get ice cream, and hang out by the fountain. All of that is missing and we stopped going long ago.

Um, OK. I go all the time with my family, and there are tons of families there. Lots of family-friendly places to eat, great playground near the Giant, and a couple of gelato/ice cream places (the complaint about the lack of ice cream is odd). Not sure I understand the complaint about "high end chains" -- basically all of the restaurants are not chains. We actually prefer "old" Bethesda, though -- a bit less crowded and lots of interesting options there, including a new independent bookstore. Plus, it seems like there's some random festival or event every other weekend.

Seems like maybe you prefer chain stores given your fondness for Barnes & Noble and whatever chain ice cream store closed down. Maybe walk around and try some of the many independent places, such as the bookstore and ice cream places, that you apparently want.

You lost me at Giant. It’s the worst grocery chain in the region and can’t shut down soon enough.

Did you actually read what I wrote before your bizarre off-topic comment? "Great playground near the Giant." It's a county park/playground that happens to be near the Giant. Anyone who is actually familiar with downtown Bethesda would understand what I was referring to but here's a link:

https://montgomeryparks.org/parks-and-trails/caroline-freeland-urban-park/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Downtown Bethesda has terrible traffic and terrible parking. The stores are all high end and chains. So, nothing new or interesting. And, the things that used to make it interesting at night are gone, namely families, young couples, teens, etc. used to go to the movies, Barnes & Noble, get ice cream, and hang out by the fountain. All of that is missing and we stopped going long ago.

Um, OK. I go all the time with my family, and there are tons of families there. Lots of family-friendly places to eat, great playground near the Giant, and a couple of gelato/ice cream places (the complaint about the lack of ice cream is odd). Not sure I understand the complaint about "high end chains" -- basically all of the restaurants are not chains. We actually prefer "old" Bethesda, though -- a bit less crowded and lots of interesting options there, including a new independent bookstore. Plus, it seems like there's some random festival or event every other weekend.

Seems like maybe you prefer chain stores given your fondness for Barnes & Noble and whatever chain ice cream store closed down. Maybe walk around and try some of the many independent places, such as the bookstore and ice cream places, that you apparently want.

DP

What book store in new Bethesda? B&N and even the little Amazon book store closed.

We definitely prefer old Bethesda now but New Bethesda used to be more charming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Downtown Bethesda has terrible traffic and terrible parking. The stores are all high end and chains. So, nothing new or interesting. And, the things that used to make it interesting at night are gone, namely families, young couples, teens, etc. used to go to the movies, Barnes & Noble, get ice cream, and hang out by the fountain. All of that is missing and we stopped going long ago.

Um, OK. I go all the time with my family, and there are tons of families there. Lots of family-friendly places to eat, great playground near the Giant, and a couple of gelato/ice cream places (the complaint about the lack of ice cream is odd). Not sure I understand the complaint about "high end chains" -- basically all of the restaurants are not chains. We actually prefer "old" Bethesda, though -- a bit less crowded and lots of interesting options there, including a new independent bookstore. Plus, it seems like there's some random festival or event every other weekend.

Seems like maybe you prefer chain stores given your fondness for Barnes & Noble and whatever chain ice cream store closed down. Maybe walk around and try some of the many independent places, such as the bookstore and ice cream places, that you apparently want.

DP

What book store in new Bethesda? B&N and even the little Amazon book store closed.

We definitely prefer old Bethesda now but New Bethesda used to be more charming.

I think they mean the bookstore in old Bethesda. Wonderland Books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like every place is more generic. All across the coutnry I see the same restaurants and the exact same looking apartments and townhomes—everything is owned and supplied by the same mega businesses. I saw an interview with a famous restiajrantejr recently (now I can’t remember who, but you would know him), and he was basically saying it’s nearly impossible to come up in the restaurant scene now as an independent and he would never make it now. It’s the same with the little stores and so forth….tje headwinds are all again unique and quirky.

That is depressing but probably true.

Still with intentionality and will, more could be done by Bethesda urban planners to mitigate the overwhelming blandness

There are no such people.

There are property owners, that's who you are talking about.

No that’s not who I am talking about. Property developers don’t get to operate in vacuums with no accountability or inputs - yet anyway.


Bethesda Downtown Implementation Advisory Committee

The Bethesda Downtown Implementation Advisory Committee (IAC) is an integral part of the Bethesda Downtown Sector Plan. This advisory group will work in coordination with the Montgomery County Planning Department, Bethesda Urban Partnership, Bethesda Chevy-Chase Regional Services Center and Bethesda Green by providing specific community and redevelopment expertise that would also serve as an interface between developers and County agencies in implementing the Bethesda Downtown Sector Plan recommendations. The IAC will be guided by the vision, goals and recommendations in the Approved and Adopted Bethesda Downtown Sector Plan, the Bethesda Downtown Design Guidelines, and the Bethesda Overlay Zone.

The role of the Committee is to coordinate and monitor the progress of development and address implementation of the recommendations in the Approved and Adopted Bethesda Downtown Sector Plan.

https://montgomeryplanning.org/planning/communities/downcounty/bethesda-downtown-plan/bethesda-downtown-implementation-advisory-committee/

The mission of the Bethesda Urban Partnership is to create an environment in which downtown businesses and residents can thrive and prosper.

https://www.bethesda.org/

How can we get more artists and creative types plus people who care about creating more community spaces and events on this Bethesda Urban Planning committee?

Bethesda Urban Partnership has a huge benefactor who is a major supporter of the arts (Trawick). Their motto used to be "Bethesda, where the arts shine" or something like that. They have a whole promotional section on their website about their Arts and Entertainments district, and even have a board that focuses on just that:
https://www.bethesda.org/arts-and-entertainment

Bethesda issues annual awards or has festivals for songwriters, contemporary arts, painting and theater. If anything, Bethesda has too much of a focus on the arts:
https://www.bethesda.org/bethesda/events

Name another place in this area of similar size (50k population) that does that much for the arts.

[Anonymous]

It’s a sleepy town

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Everyone on this board wants to be told they're living in the most desirable place and so when they get jealous they post stuff about other places being bad.

Then other people who also don't live there and want validation in their choice yell crime. Even when someone says crime is actually less than other places those same folks go full Trump and just insist that it's crime.

Then someone who lives there comes on to say it's actually amazing.

Then someone else will say LOL.

Then the debate will move to be about 10 other areas someone just wants to use as an excuse to validate their choice.

Malls are dead everywhere. Brick and mortar continues to suffer. Bethesda is fine. Like every single place in this country it could use more pedestrian infrastructure that inevitably someone would then use to rail about a lack of parking. [/quote]

I agree about malls declining everywhere and Montgomery Mall is doing surprisingly well despite uptick in robberies and assaults there.

I disagree about Bethesda being fine apart from lack of pedestrian infrastructure - although that would help. It needs big doses of creativity and culture and to bring back more interesting stores. Too bad they are building more apartments near Bethesda Row Landmark - that could have been green space for concerts and community get together.s. So little color and not enough trees. The art festivals are great but many of the artists are from out of area and very expensive. Maybe Bethesda could collab with glen echo park to host more local artists/ puppet shows/ bands and dances. Round House theater and Invagination Stage are awesome. [/quote]

Oh I mean I absolutely don't want to live in Bethesda. But it's not like a hell hole or an abandoned strip mall. It's a rather generic wealthy suburb but that's what most of these boards want. They just want to prove the superiority of their wealthy generic suburb.

I think there's real opportunities, although apartments are not inherently bad. But people who have lots of money and crave a lot more arts and culture move to Georgetown or maybe Kalorama and people with just lots of money move to Takoma Park.

Most major cities don't have the huge suburbs around them that DC does. It's hard to be a small town and host major international business headquarters. So it's kind of chosen the path of wealthy enclave rather than rich small town suburb. [/quote]


Yes exactly - generic wealthy and has allowed a lot of its character to be stripped away by building more generic apartments and offices, driving out small quirky businesses and not planning for enough community spaces.

It has definitely declined over past 20 years with extensive building of bland buildings. Barnes and Noble closing and all the high end luxury stores moved in while quirkier places got pushed out,

It can be fixed but it needs planners to be more creative, be intentional and to care.
[/quote]

PP, I have no idea where you are from but your comment “its kind of chosen the path of wealthy enclave…”

NO. It was a wealthy enclave and there is still wealth there, but thanks to the County government, there is a lot of poverty in Bethesda now too. Each of those new buildings has between 15% to 25% set aside for “Moderately Priced Dwelling Units” and the Council is moving in more “highly affordable” housing to downtown.

Because after all, don’t the poors deserve to live in the land of $5 cookies and overpriced gas?

MoCo Council never met a person of wealth they liked, and they are quite content to shame anyone in Bethesda who complains about the severe degradation in our standard of living due to the traffic, crowded schools, and crime all this development has brought to our formerly great place to live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'll bite too - has (almost) no one in this thread explored / walked around the Woodmont area of downtown Bethesda? It has a bunch of "niche" cool shops like art galleries, boutique coffee shops like French Press, multiple craft stores, old school family-run jewelry store, music stores, hobby stores, 4+ thrift/consignment stores kids activities (Imagination Station, karate, fencing, skate shop, electric bike rentals, etc.), tons of family-owned restaurants (I think over 50??), and a few bars and brewery w/ pool tables and trivia.

They also finally added a bookstore.

What else are you looking for? If you haven't explored since COVID/right after COVID, take part of the weekend and walk around including the side streets - I think you'll be surprised.

+ 1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Too much violent and petty crime in Montgomery county, which increases rapidly as you close in on DC in areas like downtown Bethesda

https://wjla.com/amp/news/local/why-is-montgomery-countys-violent-crime-rate-twice-as-high-as-fairfax-countys

Oh boy, that article needs an update. Things are much worse since 2020.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like every place is more generic. All across the coutnry I see the same restaurants and the exact same looking apartments and townhomes—everything is owned and supplied by the same mega businesses. I saw an interview with a famous restiajrantejr recently (now I can’t remember who, but you would know him), and he was basically saying it’s nearly impossible to come up in the restaurant scene now as an independent and he would never make it now. It’s the same with the little stores and so forth….tje headwinds are all again unique and quirky.

That is depressing but probably true.

Still with intentionality and will, more could be done by Bethesda urban planners to mitigate the overwhelming blandness

There are no such people.

There are property owners, that's who you are talking about.

No that’s not who I am talking about. Property developers don’t get to operate in vacuums with no accountability or inputs - yet anyway.


Bethesda Downtown Implementation Advisory Committee

The Bethesda Downtown Implementation Advisory Committee (IAC) is an integral part of the Bethesda Downtown Sector Plan. This advisory group will work in coordination with the Montgomery County Planning Department, Bethesda Urban Partnership, Bethesda Chevy-Chase Regional Services Center and Bethesda Green by providing specific community and redevelopment expertise that would also serve as an interface between developers and County agencies in implementing the Bethesda Downtown Sector Plan recommendations. The IAC will be guided by the vision, goals and recommendations in the Approved and Adopted Bethesda Downtown Sector Plan, the Bethesda Downtown Design Guidelines, and the Bethesda Overlay Zone.

The role of the Committee is to coordinate and monitor the progress of development and address implementation of the recommendations in the Approved and Adopted Bethesda Downtown Sector Plan.

https://montgomeryplanning.org/planning/communities/downcounty/bethesda-downtown-plan/bethesda-downtown-implementation-advisory-committee/

The mission of the Bethesda Urban Partnership is to create an environment in which downtown businesses and residents can thrive and prosper.

https://www.bethesda.org/

Ha, ha, ha. I can’t count the number of meetings I’ve been to. The County completely ignored the desires of residents. We were sandbagged.