High schoolers can’t write

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

Yes. In MCPS, my kid started novel studies in 3rd grade.

Which school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

I don’t think your neighbor knows what she’s talking about. In elementary school they may read excerpts, but kids definitely read whole books in middle school language classes.

While individual teachers might assign whole books, assigning excerpts from books is a common problem across MCPS in MS and HS.

They are now required to teach at least one novel study per quarter in secondary English classes in MCPS.

Our school does 2/quarter -- one whole-class novel and one in book circles that varies by reading level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

I don’t think your neighbor knows what she’s talking about. In elementary school they may read excerpts, but kids definitely read whole books in middle school language classes.

While individual teachers might assign whole books, assigning excerpts from books is a common problem across MCPS in MS and HS.

They are now required to teach at least one novel study per quarter in secondary English classes in MCPS.

Our school does 2/quarter -- one whole-class novel and one in book circles that varies by reading level.

Oh boy! One novel study! How ever will the kids handle all of that.

By secondary do you mean MS or HS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

I posted above. (I’m the teacher who transitioned to a private school.) I have nothing but respect for public school teachers. I’ve been there and I know how the job has changed since I started teaching in 2000. It’s easily 3-4 times harder now. Class sizes are up while planning time is down. Side duties and obligations are astronomically up. (And just because you see similar class sizes doesn’t mean much. Teachers now have MORE classes. An extra section means an extra 30 papers to grade.) Half of a teacher’s job is outside the classroom. You don’t see what they do, nor are you aware of how little time they have to do it.

There are teachers all over this region devoting full weekends to their jobs and still not catching up. You can say we are “making excuses”. No, we are just telling you how it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

I posted above. (I’m the teacher who transitioned to a private school.) I have nothing but respect for public school teachers. I’ve been there and I know how the job has changed since I started teaching in 2000. It’s easily 3-4 times harder now. Class sizes are up while planning time is down. Side duties and obligations are astronomically up. (And just because you see similar class sizes doesn’t mean much. Teachers now have MORE classes. An extra section means an extra 30 papers to grade.) Half of a teacher’s job is outside the classroom. You don’t see what they do, nor are you aware of how little time they have to do it.

There are teachers all over this region devoting full weekends to their jobs and still not catching up. You can say we are “making excuses”. No, we are just telling you how it is.

So what’s your solution? It’s absolutely clear MCPS isn’t producing students who are meeting standards for reading, writing, and math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am an immigrant, and I learned English from my home country. They taught grammar, structured writing, and local/foreign teachers taught in English at ES/MS/High school. They did not teach phonics. My DH is from here. Would that be beneficial if I tried to teach my ES kids the way I learned English from home country to supplement them on writing and grammar? Like spend 15 mins a day? I think I will first to break down a sentence in different parts & tense. Make it worse or just do it?

My English is not as good as DH. I find out that a lot of popular books that my kids read are not written in a correct grammatical way, including the ones teacher's recommendation. Teachers do not correct grammar and spelling, and kids told me that those are not important......because teachers do not mark them wrong.

IXL.com has grammar drills at a low monthly subscription cost. Assuming you can get your kids to do extracurricular work.

https://www.ixl.com/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

I posted above. (I’m the teacher who transitioned to a private school.) I have nothing but respect for public school teachers. I’ve been there and I know how the job has changed since I started teaching in 2000. It’s easily 3-4 times harder now. Class sizes are up while planning time is down. Side duties and obligations are astronomically up. (And just because you see similar class sizes doesn’t mean much. Teachers now have MORE classes. An extra section means an extra 30 papers to grade.) Half of a teacher’s job is outside the classroom. You don’t see what they do, nor are you aware of how little time they have to do it.

There are teachers all over this region devoting full weekends to their jobs and still not catching up. You can say we are “making excuses”. No, we are just telling you how it is.

So what’s your solution? It’s absolutely clear MCPS isn’t producing students who are meeting standards for reading, writing, and math.

No county, including MCPS, is going to do what it needs to do.

English classes in high school need to be capped at the low 20s. Teachers need to be given extra planning and fewer extra duties so they have time AT work to provide feedback. They shouldn’t be expected to do it every Sat/Sun, which is what happens to the current teachers with heavy grading loads.

Curricula should be rewritten to emphasize the writing process, including revision exercises. (Frankly, practicing teachers should write it. I’ve been very unimpressed by the curricula purchased by the counties. Plus, teachers know their students and communities more than some distant company does.)

Bring back paper and pen. Not everything should be online. Technology has its time and place, of course, but it is far too often a crutch. Let students learn how to work (and draft) without it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

Yes. In MCPS, my kid started novel studies in 3rd grade.

Which school?

Chevy Chase ES (regular, non-CES program).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

I posted above. (I’m the teacher who transitioned to a private school.) I have nothing but respect for public school teachers. I’ve been there and I know how the job has changed since I started teaching in 2000. It’s easily 3-4 times harder now. Class sizes are up while planning time is down. Side duties and obligations are astronomically up. (And just because you see similar class sizes doesn’t mean much. Teachers now have MORE classes. An extra section means an extra 30 papers to grade.) Half of a teacher’s job is outside the classroom. You don’t see what they do, nor are you aware of how little time they have to do it.

There are teachers all over this region devoting full weekends to their jobs and still not catching up. You can say we are “making excuses”. No, we are just telling you how it is.

So what’s your solution? It’s absolutely clear MCPS isn’t producing students who are meeting standards for reading, writing, and math.

No county, including MCPS, is going to do what it needs to do.

English classes in high school need to be capped at the low 20s. Teachers need to be given extra planning and fewer extra duties so they have time AT work to provide feedback. They shouldn’t be expected to do it every Sat/Sun, which is what happens to the current teachers with heavy grading loads.

Curricula should be rewritten to emphasize the writing process, including revision exercises. (Frankly, practicing teachers should write it. I’ve been very unimpressed by the curricula purchased by the counties. Plus, teachers know their students and communities more than some distant company does.)

Bring back paper and pen. Not everything should be online. Technology has its time and place, of course, but it is far too often a crutch. Let students learn how to work (and draft) without it.

That’s great, but much of it is completely unrealistic, so really you’re telling us we need to just accept that our kids won’t learn to write without being taught at home and never ask the teachers to do anything different than what they’re doing now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids go to Whitman. They are native English speakers. They get all As. Their writing is awful. Poor grammar and punctuation. Circular sentences, pointless paragraphs. In an essay, they don’t know how to build an argument. And they read more than most other kids. I am in shock. How can this be? Anyone else notice this issue with their kids?

Maybe try teaching your kids how to write.

Just spitballing here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

I don’t think your neighbor knows what she’s talking about. In elementary school they may read excerpts, but kids definitely read whole books in middle school language classes.

While individual teachers might assign whole books, assigning excerpts from books is a common problem across MCPS in MS and HS.

They are now required to teach at least one novel study per quarter in secondary English classes in MCPS.

Our school does 2/quarter -- one whole-class novel and one in book circles that varies by reading level.

Oh boy! One novel study! How ever will the kids handle all of that.

By secondary do you mean MS or HS?

Both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an immigrant, and I learned English from my home country. They taught grammar, structured writing, and local/foreign teachers taught in English at ES/MS/High school. They did not teach phonics. My DH is from here. Would that be beneficial if I tried to teach my ES kids the way I learned English from home country to supplement them on writing and grammar? Like spend 15 mins a day? I think I will first to break down a sentence in different parts & tense. Make it worse or just do it?

My English is not as good as DH. I find out that a lot of popular books that my kids read are not written in a correct grammatical way, including the ones teacher's recommendation. Teachers do not correct grammar and spelling, and kids told me that those are not important......because teachers do not mark them wrong.

IXL.com has grammar drills at a low monthly subscription cost. Assuming you can get your kids to do extracurricular work.

https://www.ixl.com/

Doesn’t MCPS provide access to IXL? Or is that only for math?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids go to Whitman. They are native English speakers. They get all As. Their writing is awful. Poor grammar and punctuation. Circular sentences, pointless paragraphs. In an essay, they don’t know how to build an argument. And they read more than most other kids. I am in shock. How can this be? Anyone else notice this issue with their kids?

Maybe try teaching your kids how to write.

Just spitballing here.

Maybe we can actually expect schools to teach kids fundamental skills.

Just spitballing here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

I don’t think your neighbor knows what she’s talking about. In elementary school they may read excerpts, but kids definitely read whole books in middle school language classes.

While individual teachers might assign whole books, assigning excerpts from books is a common problem across MCPS in MS and HS.

They are now required to teach at least one novel study per quarter in secondary English classes in MCPS.

Our school does 2/quarter -- one whole-class novel and one in book circles that varies by reading level.

Oh boy! One novel study! How ever will the kids handle all of that.

By secondary do you mean MS or HS?

Both.

The fact that they’re only required to teach one book per quarter is utterly pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

I posted above. (I’m the teacher who transitioned to a private school.) I have nothing but respect for public school teachers. I’ve been there and I know how the job has changed since I started teaching in 2000. It’s easily 3-4 times harder now. Class sizes are up while planning time is down. Side duties and obligations are astronomically up. (And just because you see similar class sizes doesn’t mean much. Teachers now have MORE classes. An extra section means an extra 30 papers to grade.) Half of a teacher’s job is outside the classroom. You don’t see what they do, nor are you aware of how little time they have to do it.

There are teachers all over this region devoting full weekends to their jobs and still not catching up. You can say we are “making excuses”. No, we are just telling you how it is.

So what’s your solution? It’s absolutely clear MCPS isn’t producing students who are meeting standards for reading, writing, and math.

No county, including MCPS, is going to do what it needs to do.

English classes in high school need to be capped at the low 20s. Teachers need to be given extra planning and fewer extra duties so they have time AT work to provide feedback. They shouldn’t be expected to do it every Sat/Sun, which is what happens to the current teachers with heavy grading loads.

Curricula should be rewritten to emphasize the writing process, including revision exercises. (Frankly, practicing teachers should write it. I’ve been very unimpressed by the curricula purchased by the counties. Plus, teachers know their students and communities more than some distant company does.)

Bring back paper and pen. Not everything should be online. Technology has its time and place, of course, but it is far too often a crutch. Let students learn how to work (and draft) without it.

That’s great, but much of it is completely unrealistic, so really you’re telling us we need to just accept that our kids won’t learn to write without being taught at home and never ask the teachers to do anything different than what they’re doing now.

So what is YOUR solution? Because it seems to be to demand more from the very people we demand too much of already. Teaching is no longer sustainable. That’s why we have this shortage.

The solution is to change the structure of our schools. Teachers MUST be afforded time at work to complete work. And teachers, as the experts, should have more of a voice than for-profit curriculum companies. These are county-level changes, though, and hard to do.

So we will do what we always do: We’ll take the easy way out, blame teachers for not doing enough, and we’ll carry on.