AAP drama

[Anonymous]

Why are people upset that this got moved to the AAP forum? Can people really not handle criticism of this program? It's not implemented fairly, and I really think that those who are proclaiming that their center school doesn't have a school within a school dynamic are naive.

It's really not possible for those who have kids in AAP to give feedback for what it's like in GenEd. You just simply don't have that point of view, and vice versa. I find it really rich that one poster was accused of making the mean comments up. We all need to accept that when our kids aren't around us, they all have the potential to say cruel, thoughtless things, no matter how much you told them not too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I failed as a parent today! My child (2nd grader) came home crying today because apparently three of her friends are switching schools to go to an AAP center next year. I’m happy with my child’ performance and school, and didn’t even consider pushing for this. But she’s been crying for over an hour about how she is “stupid” and will have no friends next year. She doesn’t even want to see these girls tomorrow because they told her they aren’t friends with her anymore. I had absolutely on idea this is something kids talk about- this is my first kid. Have other parents experienced this ?

This sounds very unreal.

This sounds very real and at my DC’s AAP center school, playground and bus taunts included, “base kid!” Unfortunately parents drive this whole classification and influence their DC. Very much a base v AAP clique that continues through ES. Parents, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have a similar story. My DD was told by some other girls on the bus that they were all smart and she wasn't, because they all got into AAP and she didn't. The sad part about all of this is that I know the other kids were parent referrals, and I didn't understand enough about AAP to refer my kid with a 130 CogAT composite (at a Title I school), meaning that my "not smart" DD had higher test scores than the "smart" girls who were bullying her. Then, she got rejected when we applied in 3rd, despite having a nearly perfect GBRS to go along with the 130 CogAT, as well as being above grade level in both reading and math.

Across the next 8 years, my kid got pass advanced on every SOL with perfect scores on most of them, a 98th percentile IAAT, straight As, a 5 on an AP test taken in 9th grade, and another 4 APs in 10th. She also flew through the math and completed AP Calc in 10th grade.

The AAP label is pretty meaningless, and kids will do fine even without it. My DD was pretty salty about the whole thing, though, and it took quite a bit of time for her to regain her confidence after FCPS and her peers deemed her as "not smart."

Yep kids can be mean. And kids move at their own pace. Luckily, AAP is there to provide supports for kids to need it sooner than later. And luckily AP classes are available for kids who need it later.

Wow. That's what you got out of it? You read that as my kid with a 97th percentile CogAT, above grade level in everything, and with a perfect GBRS "needed it later," and the kids with lower scores all around who weren't even in the advanced math group or highest reading group "needed it sooner."

The bigger issue is that aside from the very top kids who are above and beyond, AAP draws a pretty arbitrary line between the above average kids who get the smart label and the above average kids who don't. It's unfortunate that one group of moderately advanced kids with moderately bright test scores will be mean to peers who are completely indistinguishable from them and may even be smarter than they are, simply because FCPS created this huge gulf between the two groups. And then the very top kids who are above and beyond don't get the supports they need because the program has been so watered down by the above average kids in AAP.

They should use test scores and only allow appeals if your kid gets within 5 or 10 points of the cutoff.
Holistic can be a synonym for arbitrary.

Many school systems have the kids take an ability test and an achievement test. Kids scoring above whatever combined score are automatically admitted. Kids scoring below can submit a portfolio + teacher recommendations and try to get in that way, but these admissions should be somewhat rare. It would make much more sense than our current system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are people upset that this got moved to the AAP forum? Can people really not handle criticism of this program? It's not implemented fairly, and I really think that those who are proclaiming that their center school doesn't have a school within a school dynamic are naive.

It's really not possible for those who have kids in AAP to give feedback for what it's like in GenEd. You just simply don't have that point of view, and vice versa. I find it really rich that one poster was accused of making the mean comments up. We all need to accept that when our kids aren't around us, they all have the potential to say cruel, thoughtless things, no matter how much you told them not too.

Because the social/emotional impact of the AAP program on Gen Ed students isn't as effectively addressed when the thread is in the AAP forum which is focused on parents whose kids are in AAP. You don't get as rich feedback on the overall impact of the AAP program separation by limiting the thread to the AAP forum only.

[Anonymous]

I don't think any of the AAP parents were "upset" the thread moved here - just bemused since we were clearly not the target audience.

If you have an advanced kid and were an advanced kid yourself, it's not exactly a novel experience to have that status be a flash point for others 🤷

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think any of the AAP parents were "upset" the thread moved here - just bemused since we were clearly not the target audience.

If you have an advanced kid and were an advanced kid yourself, it's not exactly a novel experience to have that status be a flash point for others 🤷

But the OPs post is that her kid came home crying because other kids are going to AAP and her kid isn't and the other kids were mean about it. That post seems geared to people whose kids are also NOT in AAP. OPs question is "Have other parents experienced this?"

That question is BEST asked to a general forum, not the AAP forum, frankly. The most robust feedback would include parents who dealt with the experience of having a kid who was NOT in AAP.

[Anonymous]

I have a kid in gen ed and a kid in AAP and I haaate the center school system. It makes kids feel bad, breaks up neighborhood communities, and (and this is a petty) impacts Great School ratings to make "regular" schools look terrible. We're keeping our AAP kid at our neighborhood school where she will receive all the same services and continue to thrive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think any of the AAP parents were "upset" the thread moved here - just bemused since we were clearly not the target audience.

If you have an advanced kid and were an advanced kid yourself, it's not exactly a novel experience to have that status be a flash point for others 🤷

But the OPs post is that her kid came home crying because other kids are going to AAP and her kid isn't and the other kids were mean about it. That post seems geared to people whose kids are also NOT in AAP. OPs question is "Have other parents experienced this?"

That question is BEST asked to a general forum, not the AAP forum, frankly. The most robust feedback would include parents who dealt with the experience of having a kid who was NOT in AAP.

Yes, I agree - it doesn't belong here in terms of meeting the OP needs.

I was responding to a poster who said AAP parents were "upset" the thread was moved here and suggested we can't take criticism of the program. I was simply saying I don't think we're upset, and we're certainly used to criticism

[Anonymous]

Local Level 4 Teacher here. My school has one AAP class per year and my team is strong with a ton of experience. It irritates me that kids can get a great education at their neighborhood school but can choose to go elsewhere cause of the label of going to the center. Going to a center does not mean your child is getting a more elite education. I looked into some VGA data and was surprised that many Local Level 4s outperformed in midwinter testing than the centers. Next year every child is getting the same basal instruction regardless of level. 5th grade AAP will be getting the 5th grade basal and 6th grade will be using 6th grade. I am all for AAP but the center program is a waste of resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely the kids talk about this. I am sorry Op. AAP sucks. Damage control time. Strengthen relationships with friends who will remain. Immediately. Do not chase the friends who will be leaving.

AAP doesn’t suck. Not allowing gifted and talented kids the space to grow and be challenged sucks.

When half a grade is AAP it is not a gifted and talented program.

Precisely this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe that this happened, at least not in the extremely dramatic way that OP is saying it happened.

We've been at two FCPS elementary schools, switching in 5th. My daughter barely knew what AAP was, nobody really talked about it, and very few kids at the old school left for the center until fairly recently. At her new school, people have talked about it, she says she's heard the AAP kids are the smart kids and we've talked about how schools group children based on how they learn and what they need to focus on, and you can't generalize that they're smarter because smart means a lot of things. She's in a class with kids and a teacher that are the right fit for her.

That's it. There's no bullying, no "I can't be friends with you anymore", nothing like that. And in fact, in both schools, kids who went to the Center are still part of the same activities (sports, scouts, etc.) and the kids all see each other all the time - very easy to maintain those friendships if you want to.

That said, if this actually did happen, good riddance, right? Your child is presumably 8 years old and will have forgotten these girls by the fall.

Not the OP, but I assure you - this did happen. Your experience is very much in the minority. Especially for kids whose base/neighborhool school is the center school and who have no option to go elsewhere. Unlike AAP kids, who can choose between their neighborhood school or a center, which is absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I failed as a parent today! My child (2nd grader) came home crying today because apparently three of her friends are switching schools to go to an AAP center next year. I’m happy with my child’ performance and school, and didn’t even consider pushing for this. But she’s been crying for over an hour about how she is “stupid” and will have no friends next year. She doesn’t even want to see these girls tomorrow because they told her they aren’t friends with her anymore. I had absolutely on idea this is something kids talk about- this is my first kid. Have other parents experienced this ?

This sounds very unreal.

NP. I assure you, this is absolutely real. The same scenario happened with my child back in 2nd grade too. What made it even worse was that he attended a center school already and so had to see these mean kids for the rest of his elementary years - they were in the AAP classes and he was in GE. When they all found out they had gotten in, they made a lunch table for only themselves, and anyone not accepted to AAP was not allowed to sit there. This lasted for a few days until I and a few other parents notified the teachers and then that ended. But as another poster said, the damage had been done. My son was called "dumb" and the kids who had been his best friends immediately shunned him.

Being told as a SEVEN year old that you're either "smarter" than other kids, or "not as smart" is incredibly damaging. The truth is, the vast majority of these kids are identical in ability. Only a very few at either end of the spectrum are so different that they need a specialized curriculum.

The AAP nonsense continued through middle school. Once high school rolled around, my son took all honors and AP classes and excelled. He was accepted to a top 20 college. He says to this day that nothing ever made him feel as bad as those kids who were chosen for AAP. And it was all so unnecessary. The school could have simply had flexible groupings for the four core subjects, that kids could cycle into and out of as needed. Instead, they choose to divide and label kids into two giant groups - groups full of almost identical kids. It's a total sham.

Wow - I could have written the above post!
Our base elementary is a center school. The kids all know that 3rd grade is when the "smart" kids go into the AAP classes. When younger DS came home the first day of 3rd grade, he was in tears because he was in the "dumb" class. Absolutely broke my heart. Fast forward to high school and he decided he wanted to do the IB diploma. I think DS had a huge chip on his shoulder and wanted to prove to his classmates that he was very capable. He graduated in the top 5% of his FCPS high school and just finished his freshman year at W&M where he made the dean's list.

I hate how FCPS implements AAP and agree with the above poster about flexible groupings.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, another boy said to DC that he is too bright for them and will move to an AAP class. Good riddance to this arrogance!

Tbh, that kid is more than likely on the spectrum and just has limited to no social EQ. He is probably expressing his very literal understanding of why he is going to another class without any ability to consider the impact of his words on others.
Many spectrum kids are academically high functioning, but that doesn’t mean they grasp socially appropriate norms. So honestly, your son is fortunate to have that skill because it will serve him well in life.

DP. Most kids in AAP aren't "on the spectrum." They're just ordinary kids who happened to do well on one test. And plenty of AAP kids say exactly what the PP described to their GE peers. Mine was told that "if she had just worked harder" she'd be able to join them in AAP. What a joke. Kids in general are stupid and insensitive at the age of 7 - and often beyond that. They say incredibly damaging things that are totally unnecessary.

AAP has created a huge division among FCPS students. It was fine and workable when it was just GT for the very few. It's now a ridiculously bloated program that could easily be accomplished by simply having flexible groupings for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I failed as a parent today! My child (2nd grader) came home crying today because apparently three of her friends are switching schools to go to an AAP center next year. I’m happy with my child’ performance and school, and didn’t even consider pushing for this. But she’s been crying for over an hour about how she is “stupid” and will have no friends next year. She doesn’t even want to see these girls tomorrow because they told her they aren’t friends with her anymore. I had absolutely on idea this is something kids talk about- this is my first kid. Have other parents experienced this ?

This sounds very unreal.

NP. I assure you, this is absolutely real. The same scenario happened with my child back in 2nd grade too. What made it even worse was that he attended a center school already and so had to see these mean kids for the rest of his elementary years - they were in the AAP classes and he was in GE. When they all found out they had gotten in, they made a lunch table for only themselves, and anyone not accepted to AAP was not allowed to sit there. This lasted for a few days until I and a few other parents notified the teachers and then that ended. But as another poster said, the damage had been done. My son was called "dumb" and the kids who had been his best friends immediately shunned him.

Being told as a SEVEN year old that you're either "smarter" than other kids, or "not as smart" is incredibly damaging. The truth is, the vast majority of these kids are identical in ability. Only a very few at either end of the spectrum are so different that they need a specialized curriculum.

The AAP nonsense continued through middle school. Once high school rolled around, my son took all honors and AP classes and excelled. He was accepted to a top 20 college. He says to this day that nothing ever made him feel as bad as those kids who were chosen for AAP. And it was all so unnecessary. The school could have simply had flexible groupings for the four core subjects, fthat kids could cycle into and out of as needed. Instead, they choose to divide and label kids into two giant groups - groups full of almost identical kids. It's a total sham.

I’m sorry for your son’s experience, PP.
But they were not just able to have flexible groupings because the progressives in the colleges of education ruled that out as a “best practice” in the late 90s due to kids feeling “labeled” by the grouping and “research” that showed that kids benefit when levels are mixed together. (Of course they didn’t take into account that these studies show that result only when the kids in the class are generally less than one grade level apart in level/ability….but not so
much when it’s 4+ grade level abilities)

Anyway the point is that yes, grouping kids based on where they are performing at any given period (and allowing them to be shifted in or out of those levels based on mastery or improved performance or need for remediation) is the most effective.
But progressives shut that down and gave us AAP centers instead.
And those morphed into local level IV option and centers we have today.

+1
Which is funny because AAP/GE is the biggest labeling of all. At least with flexible groupings, kids aren't fixed in one group for all time. They can cycle in and out of them based on ability. AAP is simply a bunch of yellow-bellied Sneetches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, another boy said to DC that he is too bright for them and will move to an AAP class. Good riddance to this arrogance!

Tbh, that kid is more than likely on the spectrum and just has limited to no social EQ. He is probably expressing his very literal understanding of why he is going to another class without any ability to consider the impact of his words on others.
Many spectrum kids are academically high functioning, but that doesn’t mean they grasp socially appropriate norms. So honestly, your son is fortunate to have that skill because it will serve him well in life.

DP. Most kids in AAP aren't "on the spectrum." They're just ordinary kids who happened to do well on one test. And plenty of AAP kids say exactly what the PP described to their GE peers. Mine was told that "if she had just worked harder" she'd be able to join them in AAP. What a joke. Kids in general are stupid and insensitive at the age of 7 - and often beyond that. They say incredibly damaging things that are totally unnecessary.

AAP has created a huge division among FCPS students. It was fine and workable when it was just GT for the very few. It's now a ridiculously bloated program that could easily be accomplished by simply having flexible groupings for all.

Flexible groupings won’t work well in high farms/esol schools. And in case you haven’t noticed, that’s the trend for many FCPS schools.