More MOCO Upzoning - Starting in Silver Spring

[Anonymous]

Let us all remember that this is a part of Thrive which was planned and shoved through previous to the resignations of the infamous planning board.

https://moco360.media/2022/10/12/montgomery-county-planning-board-resigns-in-wake-of-recent-controversies/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to live in Hoboken, dimwits. If I wanted to live in a dense craphole like Hoboken then I would move to Hoboken. If you want Hoboken, go live there. Leave my home, yard, and neighborhood alone.

Ahhhhh Hoboken, where you get have the privilege of spending 45 minutes after work everyday trying to find somewhere to park after work. Just awful.

Nobody is forcing you to live in Hoboken. Nobody is doing anything to your home or yard. You don't own your neighborhood.

How do you YIMBYs not realize that what happens in people's neighborhoods has in impact on them, even if it's beyond their property line?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want to drop the missing middle rezoning proposal and just do this one maybe that is a reasonable compromise, but upzoning everything is a bad idea. Vision zero is idiotic and unrealistic though. The goal of reducing traffic fatalities attainable, but we need to balance operational concerns with safety improvements. The only way to achieve basically zero traffic deaths would be to reduce speed limit to 15 mph everywhere. Ridiculous policy goals like vision zero will harm society more than it helps.

How many deaths do you think it's worth for you to get somewhere 5 minutes faster in your car? How about 10 minutes faster in your car? Also, is it ok for people in your family to be killed or seriously injured in a car crash, or should car crash deaths and serious injuries be limited to people in other people's families?

You are ignoring the real-world trade offs that are involved in something like vision zero. Traffic deaths will never be zero unless we reduce the speed limits to 15 mph everywhere. There are very serious and negative consequences to reducing the speed limits substantially. For example, my doctors office that is now 30 around minutes away will take me around 1 hour and 30 minutes to get to if we lower the speed limit to 15mph. Multiply increases in transportation time across all of the county residents and the amount of time wasted will be astronomical. MOCO only has 39 traffic deaths per year on average. Applying the average demographics of MOCO residents indicates the the each of these people that die in a car accident are losing about 341,871 hours of their life. So any policy that waste more than this amount of other peoples time each year for every death prevented in car accidents is not a smart policy decision. Increasing the average daily driving time by 6 minutes a day for even 10,000 county residents wastes more hours than of peoples time than the hours of life gained by a single person who does not die in a car accident. I am supportive of policies that reduce traffic deaths given that a sufficient cost-benefit analysis is conducted. But it is foolish to pretend that any of these policies provide a free lunch. There are tradeoffs with pursuing policies and the vision zero proponents are largely ignoring this.

This is a common fallacy when discussing urban traffic. Higher speed limits don't always equal higher average speeds. Right now that stretch of University has a posted 35 MPH limit, but traffic actually moves between an of 10-25 MPH depending on the time of day. That's actually only slightly faster than the stretch of Connecticut Ave. with a posted 25 MPH that was the focus of another thread. That's mostly because of lights and the back ups they cause.

Why are there so many lights on University? Because drivers off the side streets can't get onto University safely when you have six lanes of traffic moving at 35+. So they demand a stop light. Now every dinky road has a light with a minute+ cycle time.

So what happens when you reduce peak speeds? You can remove traffic controls, down grade them, use traffic circles, etc. Your average travel time remains largely the same while everything gets safer and more pleasant.

There are large parts of MOCO that are not urban or high density and this policy has negative consequences in these areas where people will suffer from much longer commutes.

For these areas, the way to make those roads safer is to make them limited access divided roads. Stop letting every two-bit developer slap up a house or shopping center on them and immediately demand a light or three.

The houses and shopping centers are already there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to live in Hoboken, dimwits. If I wanted to live in a dense craphole like Hoboken then I would move to Hoboken. If you want Hoboken, go live there. Leave my home, yard, and neighborhood alone.

Ahhhhh Hoboken, where you get have the privilege of spending 45 minutes after work everyday trying to find somewhere to park after work. Just awful.

Nobody is forcing you to live in Hoboken. Nobody is doing anything to your home or yard. You don't own your neighborhood.

How do you YIMBYs not realize that what happens in people's neighborhoods has in impact on them, even if it's beyond their property line?

I think that everyone understands that. How about this? "Leave my home and yard, and the neighborhood I live in, alone."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to live in Hoboken, dimwits. If I wanted to live in a dense craphole like Hoboken then I would move to Hoboken. If you want Hoboken, go live there. Leave my home, yard, and neighborhood alone.

Ahhhhh Hoboken, where you get have the privilege of spending 45 minutes after work everyday trying to find somewhere to park after work. Just awful.

Nobody is forcing you to live in Hoboken. Nobody is doing anything to your home or yard. You don't own your neighborhood.

You don’t own the hood either. You’re just mad you can’t afford a home. That means you gotta piss on everyone who can because you feel entitled. Ruin what others have because you can’t have it. If you want to live in a dense s hole then go move to one. Not everyone wants to live a sh!tty apartment or townhome, so stop trying to jam it down our throats. Typical pinko, take what others have and redistribute. Dimwits like won’t be satisfied until everyone looks like a S hole communist bloc of housing in Soviet Russia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to live in Hoboken, dimwits. If I wanted to live in a dense craphole like Hoboken then I would move to Hoboken. If you want Hoboken, go live there. Leave my home, yard, and neighborhood alone.

Ahhhhh Hoboken, where you get have the privilege of spending 45 minutes after work everyday trying to find somewhere to park after work. Just awful.

Nobody is forcing you to live in Hoboken. Nobody is doing anything to your home or yard. You don't own your neighborhood.

They are absolutely forcing people to live in the Hoboken AKA the “ugly cousin of Manhattan” by pushing through crazy upzoning proposals most resident don’t want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to live in Hoboken, dimwits. If I wanted to live in a dense craphole like Hoboken then I would move to Hoboken. If you want Hoboken, go live there. Leave my home, yard, and neighborhood alone.

Ahhhhh Hoboken, where you get have the privilege of spending 45 minutes after work everyday trying to find somewhere to park after work. Just awful.

Nobody is forcing you to live in Hoboken. Nobody is doing anything to your home or yard. You don't own your neighborhood.

You don’t own the hood either. You’re just mad you can’t afford a home. That means you gotta piss on everyone who can because you feel entitled. Ruin what others have because you can’t have it. If you want to live in a dense s hole then go move to one. Not everyone wants to live a sh!tty apartment or townhome, so stop trying to jam it down our throats. Typical pinko, take what others have and redistribute. Dimwits like won’t be satisfied until everyone looks like a S hole communist bloc of housing in Soviet Russia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to live in Hoboken, dimwits. If I wanted to live in a dense craphole like Hoboken then I would move to Hoboken. If you want Hoboken, go live there. Leave my home, yard, and neighborhood alone.

Ahhhhh Hoboken, where you get have the privilege of spending 45 minutes after work everyday trying to find somewhere to park after work. Just awful.

Nobody is forcing you to live in Hoboken. Nobody is doing anything to your home or yard. You don't own your neighborhood.

You don’t own the hood either. You’re just mad you can’t afford a home. That means you gotta piss on everyone who can because you feel entitled. Ruin what others have because you can’t have it. If you want to live in a dense s hole then go move to one. Not everyone wants to live a sh!tty apartment or townhome, so stop trying to jam it down our throats. Typical pinko, take what others have and redistribute. Dimwits like won’t be satisfied until everyone looks like a S hole communist bloc of housing in Soviet Russia.

Leave our neighborhoods alone! Find somewhere else where the community wants urban slums and communist anti-american lifestyles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to live in Hoboken, dimwits. If I wanted to live in a dense craphole like Hoboken then I would move to Hoboken. If you want Hoboken, go live there. Leave my home, yard, and neighborhood alone.

Ahhhhh Hoboken, where you get have the privilege of spending 45 minutes after work everyday trying to find somewhere to park after work. Just awful.

Nobody is forcing you to live in Hoboken. Nobody is doing anything to your home or yard. You don't own your neighborhood.

They are absolutely forcing people to live in the Hoboken AKA the “ugly cousin of Manhattan” by pushing through crazy upzoning proposals most resident don’t want.

Public Service Announcement: All of Montgomery County as you know it today, was once upzoned from a lower density designation. Some farmer probably tried to block your SFH development as ruining the character of the county.

Upzoning is the natural consequence of the Nation/Region/County growing. If you are not fabulously wealthy, just mentally prepare yourself for this to happen to your neighborhood some day.

[Anonymous]

Ahhh, the beautiful vision for density, affordability, and walkability progressives have planned for the county:





We get to all live like animals in a cage with zero space. But at least it's 'affordable', lol 😂.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to live in Hoboken, dimwits. If I wanted to live in a dense craphole like Hoboken then I would move to Hoboken. If you want Hoboken, go live there. Leave my home, yard, and neighborhood alone.

Ahhhhh Hoboken, where you get have the privilege of spending 45 minutes after work everyday trying to find somewhere to park after work. Just awful.

Nobody is forcing you to live in Hoboken. Nobody is doing anything to your home or yard. You don't own your neighborhood.

They are absolutely forcing people to live in the Hoboken AKA the “ugly cousin of Manhattan” by pushing through crazy upzoning proposals most resident don’t want.

Public Service Announcement: All of Montgomery County as you know it today, was once upzoned from a lower density designation. Some farmer probably tried to block your SFH development as ruining the character of the county.

Upzoning is the natural consequence of the Nation/Region/County growing. If you are not fabulously wealthy, just mentally prepare yourself for this to happen to your neighborhood some day.

Population growth is slowing dramatically and there is no need to upzone the entire county to a multiple of the current density everywhere. Neighbors need to fight back and protect their communities from destruction due to crazy YIMBY policies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ahhh, the beautiful vision for density, affordability, and walkability progressives have planned for the county:





We get to all live like animals in a cage with zero space. But at least it's 'affordable', lol 😂.

It’s actually not affordable either. Buildings above 5 or 6 stories need to use concrete and steel which increases the cost per SQ ft significantly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to live in Hoboken, dimwits. If I wanted to live in a dense craphole like Hoboken then I would move to Hoboken. If you want Hoboken, go live there. Leave my home, yard, and neighborhood alone.

Ahhhhh Hoboken, where you get have the privilege of spending 45 minutes after work everyday trying to find somewhere to park after work. Just awful.

Nobody is forcing you to live in Hoboken. Nobody is doing anything to your home or yard. You don't own your neighborhood.

They are absolutely forcing people to live in the Hoboken AKA the “ugly cousin of Manhattan” by pushing through crazy upzoning proposals most resident don’t want.

Public Service Announcement: All of Montgomery County as you know it today, was once upzoned from a lower density designation. Some farmer probably tried to block your SFH development as ruining the character of the county.

Upzoning is the natural consequence of the Nation/Region/County growing. If you are not fabulously wealthy, just mentally prepare yourself for this to happen to your neighborhood some day.

My neighborhood has protective covenants with large multiple acre single family lots. I just laugh at MOCO craziness when these policies are discussed. They are horribly misguided and will ruin quality of life for county residents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to live in Hoboken, dimwits. If I wanted to live in a dense craphole like Hoboken then I would move to Hoboken. If you want Hoboken, go live there. Leave my home, yard, and neighborhood alone.

Ahhhhh Hoboken, where you get have the privilege of spending 45 minutes after work everyday trying to find somewhere to park after work. Just awful.

Nobody is forcing you to live in Hoboken. Nobody is doing anything to your home or yard. You don't own your neighborhood.

They are absolutely forcing people to live in the Hoboken AKA the “ugly cousin of Manhattan” by pushing through crazy upzoning proposals most resident don’t want.

Public Service Announcement: All of Montgomery County as you know it today, was once upzoned from a lower density designation. Some farmer probably tried to block your SFH development as ruining the character of the county.

Upzoning is the natural consequence of the Nation/Region/County growing. If you are not fabulously wealthy, just mentally prepare yourself for this to happen to your neighborhood some day.

My neighborhood has protective covenants with large multiple acre single family lots. I just laugh at MOCO craziness when these policies are discussed. They are horribly misguided and will ruin quality of life for county residents.

How nice for you? As it happens, I don't think neighborhoods like that will be much in demand in the future - like Potomac, or outer Gaithersburg/Laytonsville - but I don't live there and don't really much care one way or the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to live in Hoboken, dimwits. If I wanted to live in a dense craphole like Hoboken then I would move to Hoboken. If you want Hoboken, go live there. Leave my home, yard, and neighborhood alone.

Ahhhhh Hoboken, where you get have the privilege of spending 45 minutes after work everyday trying to find somewhere to park after work. Just awful.

Nobody is forcing you to live in Hoboken. Nobody is doing anything to your home or yard. You don't own your neighborhood.

They are absolutely forcing people to live in the Hoboken AKA the “ugly cousin of Manhattan” by pushing through crazy upzoning proposals most resident don’t want.

Public Service Announcement: All of Montgomery County as you know it today, was once upzoned from a lower density designation. Some farmer probably tried to block your SFH development as ruining the character of the county.

Upzoning is the natural consequence of the Nation/Region/County growing. If you are not fabulously wealthy, just mentally prepare yourself for this to happen to your neighborhood some day.

Population growth is slowing dramatically and there is no need to upzone the entire county to a multiple of the current density everywhere. Neighbors need to fight back and protect their communities from destruction due to crazy YIMBY policies.

Most of the houses in the study area were built in the 60's and 70's. Montgomery's population has doubled/tripled since then. Family size has also shrunk while the population has aged. More and different kinds of housing is now needed.

NIMBYs lost this fight when they rolled out the welcome mat for developers and who ever could set foot in the county.