Williams or Princeton?

[Anonymous]

If a doctor attended Penn Med rather than Pitt Med and it's somehow attributable to having a lower GPA at Princeton than Williams, I'd still attend Princeton as an undergraduate for the wider range of programs and opportunities there (and not being in as remote a location as Williamstown).

But YMMV - Williams is beautiful and some would thrive as part of the smaller community and in the isolated setting. At the end of the day these are two great choices to have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For premed, I'd be very careful. GPA matters much more than undergrad institution for med school admissions. I know Princeton is quite rigorous academically(from firsthand experience).
I'm not as well informed about Williams.

All this said, outside of rigor, Princeton's quality of teaching and the beauty of the campus are absolutely exceptional. For what it's worth, I have seen even weak students succeed in premed by majoring in sociology, english, or anthropology and taking premed STEM requirements at Rutgers during summers. At Princeton, molecular biology and chemistry are both very rigorously graded and filled with gunners - so be careful those(the easier major + Rutgers trick is a little known work around).

This trick was well known when I went 30 years ago!

The Rutgers trick is no longer possible as medical schools require the core curriculum be taken at a student’s home institution.

This isn’t true. It’s a preference. We toured gw and three tour guides all talked about taking organic chem at diff schools. One took a bus a few times a week to AU and did it there. One did both orgo 1 and 2 at a community college back home in one summer (which everyone was shocked by - two 6 week classes back to back - said it was horrible), and one took it at a non community college over 2 summers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:. If you do get in to the well known ones, again, it’s an amazing network.

What does that mean? The popularity of of each club changes over time

Yes it does change of course but for the most part the top eating clubs have remained the same ones over time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. If you do get in to the well known ones, again, it’s an amazing network.

What does that mean? The popularity of of each club changes over time

Yes it does change of course but for the most part the top eating clubs have remained the same ones over time.

You can make great “connections” (and, more importantly, friends) at any Princeton eating club. The notion that only one or two clubs matter for purposes of having a “network” is an F. Scott Fitzgerald-era anachronism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For premed, I'd be very careful. GPA matters much more than undergrad institution for med school admissions. I know Princeton is quite rigorous academically(from firsthand experience).
I'm not as well informed about Williams.

All this said, outside of rigor, Princeton's quality of teaching and the beauty of the campus are absolutely exceptional. For what it's worth, I have seen even weak students succeed in premed by majoring in sociology, english, or anthropology and taking premed STEM requirements at Rutgers during summers. At Princeton, molecular biology and chemistry are both very rigorously graded and filled with gunners - so be careful those(the easier major + Rutgers trick is a little known work around).

This trick was well known when I went 30 years ago!

The Rutgers trick is no longer possible as medical schools require the core curriculum be taken at a student’s home institution.

This isn’t true. It’s a preference. We toured gw and three tour guides all talked about taking organic chem at diff schools. One took a bus a few times a week to AU and did it there. One did both orgo 1 and 2 at a community college back home in one summer (which everyone was shocked by - two 6 week classes back to back - said it was horrible), and one took it at a non community college over 2 summers.

Require is rhe wrong word. Med schools have made clear that they make negative inferences about students who take their prerequisites at schools not of the same caliber as their home school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For premed, I'd be very careful. GPA matters much more than undergrad institution for med school admissions. I know Princeton is quite rigorous academically(from firsthand experience).
I'm not as well informed about Williams.

All this said, outside of rigor, Princeton's quality of teaching and the beauty of the campus are absolutely exceptional. For what it's worth, I have seen even weak students succeed in premed by majoring in sociology, english, or anthropology and taking premed STEM requirements at Rutgers during summers. At Princeton, molecular biology and chemistry are both very rigorously graded and filled with gunners - so be careful those(the easier major + Rutgers trick is a little known work around).

This trick was well known when I went 30 years ago!

The Rutgers trick is no longer possible as medical schools require the core curriculum be taken at a student’s home institution.

This isn’t true. It’s a preference. We toured gw and three tour guides all talked about taking organic chem at diff schools. One took a bus a few times a week to AU and did it there. One did both orgo 1 and 2 at a community college back home in one summer (which everyone was shocked by - two 6 week classes back to back - said it was horrible), and one took it at a non community college over 2 summers.

My DC is a premed at Princeton. They told them DO NOT take required courses in summer or away from Princeton. It's like not even an option!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. If you do get in to the well known ones, again, it’s an amazing network.

What does that mean? The popularity of of each club changes over time

Yes it does change of course but for the most part the top eating clubs have remained the same ones over time.

You can make great “connections” (and, more importantly, friends) at any Princeton eating club. The notion that only one or two clubs matter for purposes of having a “network” is an F. Scott Fitzgerald-era anachronism.

COMPLETELY agree. people don't list their eating clubs on LinkedIn or something. And they do change over the generations. Bezos was in the LGBTQ club lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Williams career network is amazing if your kid ends up going into banking/consulting (a lot of former premeds in those fields!). I would lean towards Williams of your kid will fit in there. I think it will be harder to get into ked school from Princeton.

If you’re looking for a career on Wall Street or in IB, Princeton will set you up better than Williams. Bigger school = bigger alumni network.

I posted about graduating from Williams and going into IB. I have to disagree and say I think William’s would serve you better. I worked for years at one of the top banks. On average we would hire about 4 new analysts annually from each top school. Solely based on class size, your odds were much better from a williams or middlebury than a Princeton.

Sounds anecdotal to a fault. A Princeton degree opens more doors than one from Williams.

I don’t think this is universally true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For premed, I'd be very careful. GPA matters much more than undergrad institution for med school admissions. I know Princeton is quite rigorous academically(from firsthand experience).
I'm not as well informed about Williams.

All this said, outside of rigor, Princeton's quality of teaching and the beauty of the campus are absolutely exceptional. For what it's worth, I have seen even weak students succeed in premed by majoring in sociology, english, or anthropology and taking premed STEM requirements at Rutgers during summers. At Princeton, molecular biology and chemistry are both very rigorously graded and filled with gunners - so be careful those(the easier major + Rutgers trick is a little known work around).

This trick was well known when I went 30 years ago!

The Rutgers trick is no longer possible as medical schools require the core curriculum be taken at a student’s home institution.

This isn’t true. It’s a preference. We toured gw and three tour guides all talked about taking organic chem at diff schools. One took a bus a few times a week to AU and did it there. One did both orgo 1 and 2 at a community college back home in one summer (which everyone was shocked by - two 6 week classes back to back - said it was horrible), and one took it at a non community college over 2 summers.

My DC is a premed at Princeton. They told them DO NOT take required courses in summer or away from Princeton. It's like not even an option!

Exactly most selective schools take this position these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Princeton has KNOWN grade deflation. This contributes to their grinder culture and unhappiness among the students.

Needing to keep a high GPA for med school entry nowadays is IMPERATIVE and totally agree that Williams might be the better option. This does not mean one is lazy or wants the easy path. It’s just reality of med school admissions. Worse today but still true back in my day. Cultivating close relationships with professors and mentors for letters of rec would also be easier at Williams than Princeton.

Signed, A Physician

The grade deflation policy at Princeton ended years ago. There just isn’t the rampant grade inflation that exists at some other schools.

The grade inflation at some schools creates its own set of problems. Students melt down over any grade less than an A, and in many cases they channel most of their efforts into activities outside the classroom, since they see that as the only way to distinguish themselves from their peers.

Personally, I would much rather be treated by a physician who worked hard at a Princeton and truly earned their spot at a medical school than someone who ended up at a medical school, even though they weren’t as well qualified, simply because their college was inflating grades to placate its students.

Your first paragraph is just a relative distinction: potato potahto.

Channeling your efforts outside the classroom is crucial; a 3.8 and a 90th percentile MCAT on its own isn't enough; extracurriculars are crucial. Very difficult when you're competing with future R1 biology/chemistry professors who can dedicate much more time to their courses than you can.

The fact that you would prefer a doctor on their alma mater rather than something more relevant like the STEP score or where they did residency or medical school doesn't matter as I doubt OP's child is going to choose based on what sort of doctor you'd prefer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For premed, I'd be very careful. GPA matters much more than undergrad institution for med school admissions. I know Princeton is quite rigorous academically(from firsthand experience).
I'm not as well informed about Williams.

All this said, outside of rigor, Princeton's quality of teaching and the beauty of the campus are absolutely exceptional. For what it's worth, I have seen even weak students succeed in premed by majoring in sociology, english, or anthropology and taking premed STEM requirements at Rutgers during summers. At Princeton, molecular biology and chemistry are both very rigorously graded and filled with gunners - so be careful those(the easier major + Rutgers trick is a little known work around).

This trick was well known when I went 30 years ago!

The Rutgers trick is no longer possible as medical schools require the core curriculum be taken at a student’s home institution.

This isn’t true. It’s a preference. We toured gw and three tour guides all talked about taking organic chem at diff schools. One took a bus a few times a week to AU and did it there. One did both orgo 1 and 2 at a community college back home in one summer (which everyone was shocked by - two 6 week classes back to back - said it was horrible), and one took it at a non community college over 2 summers.

My DC is a premed at Princeton. They told them DO NOT take required courses in summer or away from Princeton. It's like not even an option!

and how many got into medical school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn't really a debate. Princeton is more prestigious and also has the best undergrad teaching environment of any Ivy. Williams, and most SLACs, are elite teaching environments, but don't have the general prestige of an Ivy League school.

Princeton would be the clear pick for me.

My genuine concern with Princeton is that it attracts a disproportionate number of people who prioritize prestige.

be careful using this as the barometer,
Williams folks can be a tad pretentious also - a Williams grad told me that most alumni spend their life saying “I went to Williams, the number 1 ranked liberal arts college” as opposed to “I went to Williams”

[Anonymous]

Also, nowadays it's not a question of Penn Med vs Pitt Med, it's a question of no/Caribbean medical school vs osteopathic medical school vs allopathic medical school. A low GPA will tank your odds of the last, even if you want to Princeton.

[Anonymous]

I liked the idea of Williams, and was admitted, but it took a visit in person to realize just how remote it is. I remember thinking that, if you didn’t find your people there, you would basically be stuck in Williamstown for four years with nothing else around. I’d vote for Princeton.

[Anonymous]

My dc is also premed at Princeton. not a stem genius. works very hard in stem classes and gets good grades. Got a great summer internship through Princeton with an alum at a major hospital. fully funded. DC works very hard but I think that comes with the terriority.