What’s the problem with MCAP?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It isn’t testing the content being taught. This isn’t hard to understand. If I’m reading a text about the Great Depression, I probably wouldn’t do well on questions about the pre-Civil War era. Poor kids have little background knowledge and when the test asks questions about topics they haven’t been taught, it shouldn’t be a surprise that they don’t do well.

Is thought MCAP is Math, Science, English, not Social Studies

The reading passages can be on any random topic including history, science, etc.

The reading passage and subsequent questions anre about comprehension of the passage correct? It’s not requiring you to have comprehensive knowledge of every event in history. Now you may need to be able to use critical thinking skills and draw some connections like the devastating effects of war exist regardless of location, parties, or year. But again that would be testing critical thinking and comprehension.

Let me give an example. Years ago when we were still using PARCC, I had my 3rd graders read a passage used on a previous test that was released to the public. It was an informative passage about sea turtles. I had my students read it (a challenge since it was on a third grade reading level and most were reading below that). Then they answered the comprehension questions. Later, we talked about the vocab they didn't understand (words like coral reef, current, etc). One of my students said she didn't understand the title (Sea Turtles) after we read the text. She didn't understand why the author would tell the reader to "see turtles." I explained the word "see" didn't mean the same thing as the word "sea." None of my students knew that they meant different things. The entire point of the text was over their heads beginning with the title. Needless to say, they got most of the comprehension questions incorrect.


Reading comprehension is deely dependent on background knowledge of the topic and vocabulary. My students had not learned anything about marine animals and habitats so they didn't understand the vocab or even the meaning of the title. So while we teach to the standards, it doesn't mean squat when students encounter unfamiliar topics with unfamiliar vocabulary.

That is a great example and I can say that makes me understand a little more. I would say, that Sea and coral reef seem life science knowledge that a 3rd grader should have already. Habitats are covered in like 1st or 2nd grade.

It's not a science issue. it's a literacy issue.

Umm, we know that. All subjects have a literacy component, as in they have vocabulary that is unique to them. In this example “Sea” is a science word that an on grade level student would have learned on their own or when doing a science lesson that covered the Ocean habitat.

I highly doubt most teachers would even think to define the word "sea." Most would assume students knew the word already.

I think that teachers likely go over homophones like sea and see.

+1. And each habitat should have some basic vocab.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t testing the content being taught. This isn’t hard to understand. If I’m reading a text about the Great Depression, I probably wouldn’t do well on questions about the pre-Civil War era. Poor kids have little background knowledge and when the test asks questions about topics they haven’t been taught, it shouldn’t be a surprise that they don’t do well.

Is thought MCAP is Math, Science, English, not Social Studies

The reading passages can be on any random topic including history, science, etc.

The reading passage and subsequent questions anre about comprehension of the passage correct? It’s not requiring you to have comprehensive knowledge of every event in history. Now you may need to be able to use critical thinking skills and draw some connections like the devastating effects of war exist regardless of location, parties, or year. But again that would be testing critical thinking and comprehension.

Let me give an example. Years ago when we were still using PARCC, I had my 3rd graders read a passage used on a previous test that was released to the public. It was an informative passage about sea turtles. I had my students read it (a challenge since it was on a third grade reading level and most were reading below that). Then they answered the comprehension questions. Later, we talked about the vocab they didn't understand (words like coral reef, current, etc). One of my students said she didn't understand the title (Sea Turtles) after we read the text. She didn't understand why the author would tell the reader to "see turtles." I explained the word "see" didn't mean the same thing as the word "sea." None of my students knew that they meant different things. The entire point of the text was over their heads beginning with the title. Needless to say, they got most of the comprehension questions incorrect.


Reading comprehension is deely dependent on background knowledge of the topic and vocabulary. My students had not learned anything about marine animals and habitats so they didn't understand the vocab or even the meaning of the title. So while we teach to the standards, it doesn't mean squat when students encounter unfamiliar topics with unfamiliar vocabulary.

But don't you think that the fact that a 3rd grader doesn't know the difference between "see" and "sea" SHOULD be relevant to their reading comprehension score? I seriously doubt that none of them knew this difference, and if so, you need to spend more time on science and rich stories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t testing the content being taught. This isn’t hard to understand. If I’m reading a text about the Great Depression, I probably wouldn’t do well on questions about the pre-Civil War era. Poor kids have little background knowledge and when the test asks questions about topics they haven’t been taught, it shouldn’t be a surprise that they don’t do well.

Is thought MCAP is Math, Science, English, not Social Studies

The reading passages can be on any random topic including history, science, etc.

The reading passage and subsequent questions anre about comprehension of the passage correct? It’s not requiring you to have comprehensive knowledge of every event in history. Now you may need to be able to use critical thinking skills and draw some connections like the devastating effects of war exist regardless of location, parties, or year. But again that would be testing critical thinking and comprehension.

Let me give an example. Years ago when we were still using PARCC, I had my 3rd graders read a passage used on a previous test that was released to the public. It was an informative passage about sea turtles. I had my students read it (a challenge since it was on a third grade reading level and most were reading below that). Then they answered the comprehension questions. Later, we talked about the vocab they didn't understand (words like coral reef, current, etc). One of my students said she didn't understand the title (Sea Turtles) after we read the text. She didn't understand why the author would tell the reader to "see turtles." I explained the word "see" didn't mean the same thing as the word "sea." None of my students knew that they meant different things. The entire point of the text was over their heads beginning with the title. Needless to say, they got most of the comprehension questions incorrect.


Reading comprehension is deely dependent on background knowledge of the topic and vocabulary. My students had not learned anything about marine animals and habitats so they didn't understand the vocab or even the meaning of the title. So while we teach to the standards, it doesn't mean squat when students encounter unfamiliar topics with unfamiliar vocabulary.

That is a great example and I can say that makes me understand a little more. I would say, that Sea and coral reef seem life science knowledge that a 3rd grader should have already. Habitats are covered in like 1st or 2nd grade.

Maybe but when students are reading below grade level, science and social studies are the first subjects to be shoved to the side to remediate. Add in students who aren't proficient in English and you've got a students who won't do well on any standardized test.

But you can teach reading through science and social studies, so that is a pretty lame excuse. Students who aren't proficient won't do well because they actually aren't proficient in a skill necessary to succeed in the United States. You can't blame the test, and it should be telling you HOW proficient they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t testing the content being taught. This isn’t hard to understand. If I’m reading a text about the Great Depression, I probably wouldn’t do well on questions about the pre-Civil War era. Poor kids have little background knowledge and when the test asks questions about topics they haven’t been taught, it shouldn’t be a surprise that they don’t do well.

Is thought MCAP is Math, Science, English, not Social Studies

The reading passages can be on any random topic including history, science, etc.

The reading passage and subsequent questions anre about comprehension of the passage correct? It’s not requiring you to have comprehensive knowledge of every event in history. Now you may need to be able to use critical thinking skills and draw some connections like the devastating effects of war exist regardless of location, parties, or year. But again that would be testing critical thinking and comprehension.

Let me give an example. Years ago when we were still using PARCC, I had my 3rd graders read a passage used on a previous test that was released to the public. It was an informative passage about sea turtles. I had my students read it (a challenge since it was on a third grade reading level and most were reading below that). Then they answered the comprehension questions. Later, we talked about the vocab they didn't understand (words like coral reef, current, etc). One of my students said she didn't understand the title (Sea Turtles) after we read the text. She didn't understand why the author would tell the reader to "see turtles." I explained the word "see" didn't mean the same thing as the word "sea." None of my students knew that they meant different things. The entire point of the text was over their heads beginning with the title. Needless to say, they got most of the comprehension questions incorrect.


Reading comprehension is deely dependent on background knowledge of the topic and vocabulary. My students had not learned anything about marine animals and habitats so they didn't understand the vocab or even the meaning of the title. So while we teach to the standards, it doesn't mean squat when students encounter unfamiliar topics with unfamiliar vocabulary.

That is a great example and I can say that makes me understand a little more. I would say, that Sea and coral reef seem life science knowledge that a 3rd grader should have already. Habitats are covered in like 1st or 2nd grade.

Maybe but when students are reading below grade level, science and social studies are the first subjects to be shoved to the side to remediate. Add in students who aren't proficient in English and you've got a students who won't do well on any standardized test.

I don’t disagree, but the problem in this context is not MCAP. In this example the MCAP would be showing correctly that the students are not at grade level. Was that likely known by the teacher before hand, yes. Which is why I’m of the opinion if at the end of 2nd you are not prepared for third grade you should not be moved up. Further I would argue shoving science and social studies to the side is not helpful because they use and model the very reading and math skills that are being remediated.

Standardized tests are used to tell parents and the public how many students are not at grade level. The teacher is probably already aware.

[Anonymous]

MCAP always, and I mean ALWAYS, has a "cut-off" line that is way too high. I scored way above my grade one time and the cutoff was right below it.