What’s the problem with MCAP?

[Anonymous]

It came up recently in another thread that people feel there are problems with MCAP. I’m trying to understand what everyone sees as the problem with the test. I thought it was that the cut scores for the proficiency level was too high, but that didn’t seem to be it. Can others explain the problem?

[Anonymous]

There's a loud, vociferous group of educators within MCPS who believe all testing is flawed, racist, biased and a waste of time. Or that the people at the state department of education are just too incompetent and not to be trusted with coming up a statewide standardized tests.

As a parent, I can't suss out fact from fiction with regard to how accurately this applies to MCAP, but that's what has been spewed here on this forum repeatedly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's a loud, vociferous group of educators within MCPS who believe all testing is flawed, racist, biased and a waste of time. Or that the people at the state department of education are just too incompetent and not to be trusted with coming up a statewide standardized tests.

As a parent, I can't suss out fact from fiction with regard to how accurately this applies to MCAP, but that's what has been spewed here on this forum repeatedly.

Ok, so glad to know it’s not just me who is confused. Folks said its because it wasn’t aligned to our curriculum, which left me confused as I wouldn’t expect a state exam to l be tied to anyone curriculum unless all schools in the state were using the same curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Misalignment of MCPS-taught standards to MCAP-tested standards is my understanding. I believe MCPS was trying to adjust, but knew that there would be numbers that appeared lower than expected until they could do so.

Some other MD school districts may have been more nimble in changing to address the MSDE-mandated standards. Pandemic after-effects, though possibly lessening, may also persist.

[Anonymous]

I believe PP is correct. Also that some of the questions are just badly written.
My kids always get at least meet standards and sometimes exceeds. By they are high IQ, study hard, come from a highly educated household that is native English speaking, test well and get A in their classes — the fact that they only do okay on these tests suggests to me that something is not right with the test and so it doesn’t surprise me that kids who have more challenges are not doing well on these tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Misalignment of MCPS-taught standards to MCAP-tested standards is my understanding. I believe MCPS was trying to adjust, but knew that there would be numbers that appeared lower than expected until they could do so.

Some other MD school districts may have been more nimble in changing to address the MSDE-mandated standards. Pandemic after-effects, though possibly lessening, may also persist.

Isn’t MCAP testing Common Core standards, which is what MCPS is supposed to be teaching? -NP

[Anonymous]

The test has horribly written questions that can be more confusing than helpful. Teachers can’t help clarify questions so students are 100% on their own are can end up very frustrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It came up recently in another thread that people feel there are problems with MCAP. I’m trying to understand what everyone sees as the problem with the test. I thought it was that the cut scores for the proficiency level was too high, but that didn’t seem to be it. Can others explain the problem?

The state used PARCC, which is a national and proven test, for years, but because of the common core backlash, they decided to make up their own new test. The problem was PARCC scores were very different than MCAP scores because the test was new and unproven. It's getting better but will probably take a few years to iron out the bugs and have a reliable metric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It came up recently in another thread that people feel there are problems with MCAP. I’m trying to understand what everyone sees as the problem with the test. I thought it was that the cut scores for the proficiency level was too high, but that didn’t seem to be it. Can others explain the problem?

The state used PARCC, which is a national and proven test, for years, but because of the common core backlash, they decided to make up their own new test. The problem was PARCC scores were very different than MCAP scores because the test was new and unproven. It's getting better but will probably take a few years to iron out the bugs and have a reliable metric.

But my understanding is the MCAP is not a whole new test from scratch. It’s mostly the PARCC with some parts shorten. Just like other states basically took the same PARCC test and slap a new label on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I believe PP is correct. Also that some of the questions are just badly written.
My kids always get at least meet standards and sometimes exceeds. By they are high IQ, study hard, come from a highly educated household that is native English speaking, test well and get A in their classes — the fact that they only do okay on these tests suggests to me that something is not right with the test and so it doesn’t surprise me that kids who have more challenges are not doing well on these tests.

But you said your kid is getting meets or exceeds. What are you expecting? Most kids aren’t geniuses.

I think one of the problems is that curriculum folks in CO and teachers are not well versed in MD State or Common Core standards and what they are seeking. And I know a few teachers who agree that this is part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

When no school system in the state, not even one, is doing good in the test, it says that the problem is with the test.
The test is flawed.

[Anonymous]

It isn’t testing the content being taught. This isn’t hard to understand. If I’m reading a text about the Great Depression, I probably wouldn’t do well on questions about the pre-Civil War era. Poor kids have little background knowledge and when the test asks questions about topics they haven’t been taught, it shouldn’t be a surprise that they don’t do well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Misalignment of MCPS-taught standards to MCAP-tested standards is my understanding. I believe MCPS was trying to adjust, but knew that there would be numbers that appeared lower than expected until they could do so.

Some other MD school districts may have been more nimble in changing to address the MSDE-mandated standards. Pandemic after-effects, though possibly lessening, may also persist.

Isn’t MCAP testing Common Core standards, which is what MCPS is supposed to be teaching? -NP

I believe the situation is that both MCPS curriculum and MSDE MCAP inherit standards from common core, but that that does not mean each might have additional standards that do not inherit directly from common core and which, then, might be different. It is incumbent upon MCPS to adopt or develop curricula that adhere to MSDE standards (including anything in addition to common core); MCPS can have additional curriculum requirements of their own. Methodology/approaches to the teaching of common core may also be different between MCPS and that which is envisioned by MSDE, and, then, presentation of MCAP test material might differ from that with which MCPS students are familiar (this is more of a hypothetical on my part, thinking about others' noting that there were confusingly written questions).

My additional recollection from various interactions is that, though there was some advance notice of the MSDE change, MCPS may have been slow to procure/modify curricula to that obligation for a variety of reasons, including:

-- scheduling for procurement of curricula, which MCPS tries to stagger across subject areas, with bottlenecks from numbers of available personnel if everything needed to be done at once,

-- cost of new curricula (we know how the County Council underfunds the MCPS request in the first place; I don't think MSDE provides differential funding to cover their curricular mandates),

-- concern with rapid of changes to curricula while dealing with pandemic effects (responsible curriculum change is a multi-year process), and

-- concern with the timing of curricular change so soon after recent post-C2.0 curricular adoption.

There may be other reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Misalignment of MCPS-taught standards to MCAP-tested standards is my understanding. I believe MCPS was trying to adjust, but knew that there would be numbers that appeared lower than expected until they could do so.

Some other MD school districts may have been more nimble in changing to address the MSDE-mandated standards. Pandemic after-effects, though possibly lessening, may also persist.

Isn’t MCAP testing Common Core standards, which is what MCPS is supposed to be teaching? -NP

I believe the situation is that both MCPS curriculum and MSDE MCAP inherit standards from common core, but that that does not mean each might have additional standards that do not inherit directly from common core and which, then, might be different. It is incumbent upon MCPS to adopt or develop curricula that adhere to MSDE standards (including anything in addition to common core); MCPS can have additional curriculum requirements of their own. Methodology/approaches to the teaching of common core may also be different between MCPS and that which is envisioned by MSDE, and, then, presentation of MCAP test material might differ from that with which MCPS students are familiar (this is more of a hypothetical on my part, thinking about others' noting that there were confusingly written questions).

My additional recollection from various interactions is that, though there was some advance notice of the MSDE change, MCPS may have been slow to procure/modify curricula to that obligation for a variety of reasons, including:

-- scheduling for procurement of curricula, which MCPS tries to stagger across subject areas, with bottlenecks from numbers of available personnel if everything needed to be done at once,

-- cost of new curricula (we know how the County Council underfunds the MCPS request in the first place; I don't think MSDE provides differential funding to cover their curricular mandates),

-- concern with rapid of changes to curricula while dealing with pandemic effects (responsible curriculum change is a multi-year process), and

-- concern with the timing of curricular change so soon after recent post-C2.0 curricular adoption.

There may be other reasons.

The problem with your analysis is that it is not just MCPS. It's every school system in the state is having problems with the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When no school system in the state, not even one, is doing good in the test, it says that the problem is with the test.
The test is flawed.

I'm dying of irony.