Do EVs really save you money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not ready to go full EV yet. It's not cheaper than gas cars but that's not the point of EVs. The convenience of filling up in 2 min pretty much everywhere in the country vs having to carefully plan every stop with an app and hope the charging stations are working if I want to take a road trip is making me not want to get one. If the government wants to seriously invest in nuclear power, geothermal power or hydrogen I'd be all for it. But all of these EVs (and to a large extend data centers) are just making sure that coal is not going anywhere. Unless you have a solar grid on your house, of course.

This is also wrong— the cheapest source of electricity now is renewables and that is what is being added to the grid. Some studies actually suggest that increased demand for electricity will drive even more use of renewables and make the grid cleaner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The constant worry and planning around staying charged is enough to keep me from getting an EV. The limited range, the impact of cold weather, the fact that everything is dependent on computers, chips, and wifi makes them feel susceptible to mischief, control, etc. I'm sure this seems doomsday but I like my gas vehicle that I always keep
Filled up so we can escape this city if we need to.

If you want to be anxious that’s fine but there’s no vehicle easier to keep “filled up” than an EV and the chips are pretty much any new car. If you want to buy a car that you know you drive 400 miles without stopping in case of a nuclear attack or something then an EV is probably not for you (although there are some nice long range ones)

dp.. it's not about that. The charging stations throughout the country is hit or miss. You do have to plan your trip based on ev charging stations, and if it's cold, it may take longer to charge.

I agree that the infrastructure just is not there yet. We need to buy a car this year, and are leaning towards a plugin hybrid for now. This car would be our long distance car. In another year or two, I'll probably get an EV for short distance driving like to run errands.

[Anonymous]

Some charging stations also don’t work, are completely in-use, or have varying charging speeds making the whole experience unpredictable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some charging stations also don’t work, are completely in-use, or have varying charging speeds making the whole experience unpredictable.

Yes, most people use an EV as a local car for commuting and running errands. We almost never go on long road trips, and we only charge at home, so an EV works for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some charging stations also don’t work, are completely in-use, or have varying charging speeds making the whole experience unpredictable.

Yes, most people use an EV as a local car for commuting and running errands. We almost never go on long road trips, and we only charge at home, so an EV works for us.

Right. Because ICE are better for anything longer than a commute or errands. So EV’s haven’t come remotely close to being a full solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not ready to go full EV yet. It's not cheaper than gas cars but that's not the point of EVs. The convenience of filling up in 2 min pretty much everywhere in the country vs having to carefully plan every stop with an app and hope the charging stations are working if I want to take a road trip is making me not want to get one. If the government wants to seriously invest in nuclear power, geothermal power or hydrogen I'd be all for it. But all of these EVs (and to a large extend data centers) are just making sure that coal is not going anywhere. Unless you have a solar grid on your house, of course.

This is also wrong— the cheapest source of electricity now is renewables and that is what is being added to the grid. Some studies actually suggest that increased demand for electricity will drive even more use of renewables and make the grid cleaner.

Which power plants are using renewables? Sure, I think more people will put solar on their house in the future because the power grid won’t be able to keep up, but for now the use and demand for coal keeps rising.

[Anonymous]

I'm in the market and I found some 2023 Tesla Model Y's for 36K. They have fewer than 10K miles and it's a great price point. If electricity is half as much as gas per year, I would save $1,800 annually.

I despise Elon Musk so I'm only down with buying a used Tesla and with depreciation, it ends up being a great deal. You can also buy a 2 year old Polestar for 30K but the range isn't that great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not ready to go full EV yet. It's not cheaper than gas cars but that's not the point of EVs. The convenience of filling up in 2 min pretty much everywhere in the country vs having to carefully plan every stop with an app and hope the charging stations are working if I want to take a road trip is making me not want to get one. If the government wants to seriously invest in nuclear power, geothermal power or hydrogen I'd be all for it. But all of these EVs (and to a large extend data centers) are just making sure that coal is not going anywhere. Unless you have a solar grid on your house, of course.

This is also wrong— the cheapest source of electricity now is renewables and that is what is being added to the grid. Some studies actually suggest that increased demand for electricity will drive even more use of renewables and make the grid cleaner.

Which power plants are using renewables? Sure, I think more people will put solar on their house in the future because the power grid won’t be able to keep up, but for now the use and demand for coal keeps rising.

There are lots of renewables being added to the grid. In spring (including this past weekend) renewables supply 100% or more of the electric needs of California.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some charging stations also don’t work, are completely in-use, or have varying charging speeds making the whole experience unpredictable.

Yes, most people use an EV as a local car for commuting and running errands. We almost never go on long road trips, and we only charge at home, so an EV works for us.

Right. Because ICE are better for anything longer than a commute or errands. So EV’s haven’t come remotely close to being a full solution.

We've taken an EV to ski trips, beach trips, to drop kids at sleep away camp in rural Virginia and to visit family and friends in New York. The biggest problem we had was having to wait about 20 minutes to use a charging station on the way back from New York once. It's definitely true that ICE cars are marginally more convenient for road trips, but once you realize you don't need the car to be fully charged (you just need it to have enough charge to get to the next spot to charge), planning is easier. And the fact that I never have to go anywhere to charge the car EXCEPT when on road trips, because we can charge at home, is a major improvement over ever needing to go buy gas. I just plug it in at night at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not ready to go full EV yet. It's not cheaper than gas cars but that's not the point of EVs. The convenience of filling up in 2 min pretty much everywhere in the country vs having to carefully plan every stop with an app and hope the charging stations are working if I want to take a road trip is making me not want to get one. If the government wants to seriously invest in nuclear power, geothermal power or hydrogen I'd be all for it. But all of these EVs (and to a large extend data centers) are just making sure that coal is not going anywhere. Unless you have a solar grid on your house, of course.

This is also wrong— the cheapest source of electricity now is renewables and that is what is being added to the grid. Some studies actually suggest that increased demand for electricity will drive even more use of renewables and make the grid cleaner.

Which power plants are using renewables? Sure, I think more people will put solar on their house in the future because the power grid won’t be able to keep up, but for now the use and demand for coal keeps rising.

There are lots of renewables being added to the grid. In spring (including this past weekend) renewables supply 100% or more of the electric needs of California.

Can you please tell me where you saw that? I work in the industry and even if that’s true it’s only one state, the most progressive one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not plotting out my stops in advance on a road trip and then waiting in a line to then charge my car for 20 minutes. Nope. When the network and speed get better I'll think about it. Its not the money, its the hassle.

How many road trips do you go on a year? You’ll buy a car simply because of features related to roadtrips? Why don’t you just drive around in an RV then?

[Anonymous]

A mile on electricity from coal emits less carbon than a mile on gasoline. All these coal arguments are silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some charging stations also don’t work, are completely in-use, or have varying charging speeds making the whole experience unpredictable.

Yes, most people use an EV as a local car for commuting and running errands. We almost never go on long road trips, and we only charge at home, so an EV works for us.

Right. Because ICE are better for anything longer than a commute or errands. So EV’s haven’t come remotely close to being a full solution.

We've taken an EV to ski trips, beach trips, to drop kids at sleep away camp in rural Virginia and to visit family and friends in New York. The biggest problem we had was having to wait about 20 minutes to use a charging station on the way back from New York once. It's definitely true that ICE cars are marginally more convenient for road trips, but once you realize you don't need the car to be fully charged (you just need it to have enough charge to get to the next spot to charge), planning is easier. And the fact that I never have to go anywhere to charge the car EXCEPT when on road trips, because we can charge at home, is a major improvement over ever needing to go buy gas. I just plug it in at night at home.

These are non-starters for me. I can go over 400 highway miles on a tank. I can go 2-3 weeks between fillups with normal local driving and I fill up during a weekday when I'm running errands anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some charging stations also don’t work, are completely in-use, or have varying charging speeds making the whole experience unpredictable.

Yes, most people use an EV as a local car for commuting and running errands. We almost never go on long road trips, and we only charge at home, so an EV works for us.

Right. Because ICE are better for anything longer than a commute or errands. So EV’s haven’t come remotely close to being a full solution.

We've taken an EV to ski trips, beach trips, to drop kids at sleep away camp in rural Virginia and to visit family and friends in New York. The biggest problem we had was having to wait about 20 minutes to use a charging station on the way back from New York once. It's definitely true that ICE cars are marginally more convenient for road trips, but once you realize you don't need the car to be fully charged (you just need it to have enough charge to get to the next spot to charge), planning is easier. And the fact that I never have to go anywhere to charge the car EXCEPT when on road trips, because we can charge at home, is a major improvement over ever needing to go buy gas. I just plug it in at night at home.

These are non-starters for me. I can go over 400 highway miles on a tank. I can go 2-3 weeks between fillups with normal local driving and I fill up during a weekday when I'm running errands anyway.

You can go forever without a fill up with normal local driving with an EV. You just plug it in at night. If it takes you 2-3 weeks to drive 400 miles, you wouldnt even need a special charger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not ready to go full EV yet. It's not cheaper than gas cars but that's not the point of EVs. The convenience of filling up in 2 min pretty much everywhere in the country vs having to carefully plan every stop with an app and hope the charging stations are working if I want to take a road trip is making me not want to get one. If the government wants to seriously invest in nuclear power, geothermal power or hydrogen I'd be all for it. But all of these EVs (and to a large extend data centers) are just making sure that coal is not going anywhere. Unless you have a solar grid on your house, of course.

This is also wrong— the cheapest source of electricity now is renewables and that is what is being added to the grid. Some studies actually suggest that increased demand for electricity will drive even more use of renewables and make the grid cleaner.

Which power plants are using renewables? Sure, I think more people will put solar on their house in the future because the power grid won’t be able to keep up, but for now the use and demand for coal keeps rising.

There are lots of renewables being added to the grid. In spring (including this past weekend) renewables supply 100% or more of the electric needs of California.

Can you please tell me where you saw that? I work in the industry and even if that’s true it’s only one state, the most progressive one.

If you work in the industry then it shouldn’t be news to you— it was widely reported when it happened last year. Think NPR even did a story.

Here is a report from DOE that CAISO has had to curtail renewables on the grid the last two years because of oversupply.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=60822

Not sure how CA being progressive is relevant— my point was that solar and wind are the cheapest new sources of energy for the grid so as there is more demand that demand will be filled by renewables (and batteries probably) not coal. The suggestion that renewables don’t produce energy at scale for grid use is just uninformed.