What are my child's chances of getting into the IB program?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

What makes your guess better than my guess?

dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.

Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.

I do not think there is anywhere that lists each school and its diploma pass rate in a table (that is publicly available). You can google each school and find presentations where they mention the number of diplomas awarded, diploma rates, and that kind of thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BCC is not cohorted in 9th and 10th grade, but you can take AP classes in 10th grade. AP NSL and AP Lang are pretty common in 10th grade. Those 2 classes, together with above grade level math tends to create a loose cohort in core academics.

If a kid has never experienced a magnet or isn't confident in their own intelligence or tends to try to hide their intelligence, then RM IB might be worth it over an open IB program. There is something to be said for being in a peer group that are all very intelligent kids with their own interests.

For kids who have been in the magnet program or who have very narrow or broad interests, IB can be a bad fit because it has pretty restrictive rules about what to take to fill the IB degree requirements.

My DC had a deep interest in a specific subject and wouldn't have been able to take as many classes in that area if DC had done IB, so a mix of AP and IB turned out to be a better fit.

As a BCC parent, I can say that the really bright kids find each other, both socially and academically. There is no cohorting, but they do end up in a lot of the same classes together because many of them are on an above grade level math track, which means that schedule-wise they get thrown together in a lot of non-math classes as well.

Are you saying 10th graders at B-CC can take AP English? That is not listed as an option on the course card: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/Co 1YGMAyGB-rds5z8YtzF11eCHPWh_9ColgLrMCeIrw1Js/htmlview
To my knowledge, the only course that can be substituted for “Honors” English 10 in MCPS is AP Seminar, which is not listed on the 10th grade course card for B-CC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BCC is not cohorted in 9th and 10th grade, but you can take AP classes in 10th grade. AP NSL and AP Lang are pretty common in 10th grade. Those 2 classes, together with above grade level math tends to create a loose cohort in core academics.

If a kid has never experienced a magnet or isn't confident in their own intelligence or tends to try to hide their intelligence, then RM IB might be worth it over an open IB program. There is something to be said for being in a peer group that are all very intelligent kids with their own interests.

For kids who have been in the magnet program or who have very narrow or broad interests, IB can be a bad fit because it has pretty restrictive rules about what to take to fill the IB degree requirements.

My DC had a deep interest in a specific subject and wouldn't have been able to take as many classes in that area if DC had done IB, so a mix of AP and IB turned out to be a better fit.

As a BCC parent, I can say that the really bright kids find each other, both socially and academically. There is no cohorting, but they do end up in a lot of the same classes together because many of them are on an above grade level math track, which means that schedule-wise they get thrown together in a lot of non-math classes as well.

Are you saying 10th graders at B-CC can take AP English? That is not listed as an option on the course card: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/Co 1YGMAyGB-rds5z8YtzF11eCHPWh_9ColgLrMCeIrw1Js/htmlview
To my knowledge, the only course that can be substituted for “Honors” English 10 in MCPS is AP Seminar, which is not listed on the 10th grade course card for B-CC.

My 10th grader at Kennedy also took AP Lang. I don't think it's uncommon in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

And once again the devil is on the details. For the longest RMHS IB program was the only magnet IB program. Meaning kids from all across the county applied to be in the magnet program. As mentioned the regional sites as application programs are new. Yes several of the schools have offered IB for a while now, but it was a local school program only whereby the students could opt into the IB diploma 11th/12th or could just opt to take the classes. The commitment to completing the diploma is different. As time goes on, I would expect the regional sites to have a much higher pass rate and eventually if not soon, RMs program will stop being countywide.

Without robust IB offerings (read: the full slate, as at RMIB), the incentive for students to pursue the available courses is low, as there are better-bang-for-their-buck non-IB options. Then local (or, now, regional) IB schools note declining interest, which means they won't offer the more advanced courses.

Earlier this year, the Einstein principal noted huge attrition from those entering the school with IB interest to those pursuing it in Junior & Senior years.

This is a chicken and egg problem that MCPS might be unwilling to correct by, say, sincerely promoting the academic benefits of full IB and ensuring that students at any IB school have adequate, equitable access to any (grade-appropriate) level course, virtual or otherwise. Given the tenor of MCPS responses to expressed family concerns, one might expect that the first part of that is because they don't want to point out their having fewer seats in robust programs (e.g., RMIB; maybe BCCIB?) than there are students who would pursue them (this can be generalized beyond IB -- see CES, the middle school criteria-based magnets & SMaCS). The second bit would be much more of a logistics & funding issue.

The regional IBs may get there, but it will take many years under any approach that doesn't inclide props to provide that reasonable equivalence in the meanwhile.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

And once again the devil is on the details. For the longest RMHS IB program was the only magnet IB program. Meaning kids from all across the county applied to be in the magnet program. As mentioned the regional sites as application programs are new. Yes several of the schools have offered IB for a while now, but it was a local school program only whereby the students could opt into the IB diploma 11th/12th or could just opt to take the classes. The commitment to completing the diploma is different. As time goes on, I would expect the regional sites to have a much higher pass rate and eventually if not soon, RMs program will stop being countywide.

Without robust IB offerings (read: the full slate, as at RMIB), the incentive for students to pursue the available courses is low, as there are better-bang-for-their-buck non-IB options. Then local (or, now, regional) IB schools note declining interest, which means they won't offer the more advanced courses.

Earlier this year, the Einstein principal noted huge attrition from those entering the school with IB interest to those pursuing it in Junior & Senior years.

This is a chicken and egg problem that MCPS might be unwilling to correct by, say, sincerely promoting the academic benefits of full IB and ensuring that students at any IB school have adequate, equitable access to any (grade-appropriate) level course, virtual or otherwise. Given the tenor of MCPS responses to expressed family concerns, one might expect that the first part of that is because they don't want to point out their having fewer seats in robust programs (e.g., RMIB; maybe BCCIB?) than there are students who would pursue them (this can be generalized beyond IB -- see CES, the middle school criteria-based magnets & SMaCS). The second bit would be much more of a logistics & funding issue.

The regional IBs may get there, but it will take many years under any approach that doesn't inclide props to provide that reasonable equivalence in the meanwhile.

Which IB schools in MCPS don't have "robust IB offerings"? Which "more advanced [IB] courses" are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

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Take a look at the 24-25 catalogs for the schools (selecting schools and then thr Mathematics department, in this case):

https://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/SchoolCourseCatalogs/Index/All

That catalog is not reliable. My kid at Seneca Valley HS is taking IB Theory of Knowledge, but I can't find it in the SVHS course offerings, even though it's an IB Diploma Programme requirement. The kid is also taking IB Applic Statistics Calculus SL, and that's not listed either. The English course offerings include IB Literature but not IB Language and Literature, although SVHS offers both.

So, as noted in the PP, but left out in your quote, there:

As usual, MCPS offers different things at different schools, claiming to meet community demand, but only when there is a cohort (and probably vocally demanding families), leaving a student with need/interest but without a cohort with the option of maybe taking a course at Montgomery College (with the difficult logistics, there) or moving to a different pyramid (even more difficult).

And, as usual, they make this fact clear as mud -- they don't want to have to address (or even acknowledge) catchment-based academic inequity.

It would be very easy for them to be above board about differential offerings across schools. They simply don't want to do that.

Gee, my explanation was just that nobody bothers to keep the central catalog updated and current. But if you want to attribute it to malice, go right ahead, I guess.

Sure -- that too. Malice is your word. Disregard to zip-code academic equity with a side of distaste for advanced academic programs due to a misguided view of their effect would be closer. The malice comes from those benefitting from the differential treatment who expect it to be taken as OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BCC is not cohorted in 9th and 10th grade, but you can take AP classes in 10th grade. AP NSL and AP Lang are pretty common in 10th grade. Those 2 classes, together with above grade level math tends to create a loose cohort in core academics.

If a kid has never experienced a magnet or isn't confident in their own intelligence or tends to try to hide their intelligence, then RM IB might be worth it over an open IB program. There is something to be said for being in a peer group that are all very intelligent kids with their own interests.

For kids who have been in the magnet program or who have very narrow or broad interests, IB can be a bad fit because it has pretty restrictive rules about what to take to fill the IB degree requirements.

My DC had a deep interest in a specific subject and wouldn't have been able to take as many classes in that area if DC had done IB, so a mix of AP and IB turned out to be a better fit.

As a BCC parent, I can say that the really bright kids find each other, both socially and academically. There is no cohorting, but they do end up in a lot of the same classes together because many of them are on an above grade level math track, which means that schedule-wise they get thrown together in a lot of non-math classes as well.

Are you saying 10th graders at B-CC can take AP English? That is not listed as an option on the course card: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/Co 1YGMAyGB-rds5z8YtzF11eCHPWh_9ColgLrMCeIrw1Js/htmlview
To my knowledge, the only course that can be substituted for “Honors” English 10 in MCPS is AP Seminar, which is not listed on the 10th grade course card for B-CC.

Sorry, I should have said AP NSL is common in 9th grade and AP History is common in 10th. AP English Lang is not common for 10th grade. But, I know a number of students who have done it. There used to be a process for students to "apply" to AP Lang (no matter what grade) by writing an essay. That was lame. College Board has no prerequisites for AP Lang, and asking kids to apply is just a way of gate-keeping. Most kids don't take AP English Lit until junior or senior year, and many who would consider taking AP Lit, take the 2 year sequence of IB English instead.

Counselors are not helpful, IMO. As long as you and your DC are OK about taking an AP class that is higher level than what is commonly done, you can insist and it should happen, even if it's not on the "course card" for your grade. Counselors and teachers are mostly worried that a kid won't get an A and then the parent will be upset. The problem is that neither counselors nor teachers can tell which kids are smart enough/organized enough to get As and commonly underestimate instead of overestimate and gatekeep talented kids out. (Also, frankly, there is some prejudice/bias involved. Teachers, particularly, have certain misconceptions about which kids are smart, and miss a lot of talent, IME.)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

What makes your guess better than my guess?

dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.

Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.

I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.

It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.

From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."

Please see performance data by high school and come back to say that all of the programs offer the same quality.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230209_2022_AP_IB_Exams_HS%20Principals.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

What makes your guess better than my guess?

dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.

Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.

I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.

It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.

From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."

Please see performance data by high school and come back to say that all of the programs offer the same quality.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230209_2022_AP_IB_Exams_HS%20Principals.pdf

"Taking an IB exam" is not the same as "Being in the IB Diploma Programme".

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

What makes your guess better than my guess?

dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.

Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.

I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.

It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.

From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."

Please see performance data by high school and come back to say that all of the programs offer the same quality.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230209_2022_AP_IB_Exams_HS%20Principals.pdf

You should probably go look at the data you shared. Aside from maybe the Math IB exams, no one is going to look at this data and think the other schools besides RM are doing poorly. Especially once they factor in that RM’s IB program had an application magnet alongside it whereas the other schools it was just a local program/classes that students were opting into during 11th/12th. Of those who attempt a specific exam, a large share are scoring 4/5/6 regardless of school.

If anything the data shows that MCPS was right in their thinking of going to regional sites for the IB magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

What makes your guess better than my guess?

dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.

Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.

I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.

It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.

From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."

Please see performance data by high school and come back to say that all of the programs offer the same quality.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230209_2022_AP_IB_Exams_HS%20Principals.pdf

Thank you. This is the resource I was looking for. MCPS should be ashamed of itself with the kind of performance included in this report. Only B-CC, RM and Einstein are doing well with IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

What makes your guess better than my guess?

dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.

Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.

I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.

It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.

From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."

Please see performance data by high school and come back to say that all of the programs offer the same quality.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230209_2022_AP_IB_Exams_HS%20Principals.pdf

Thank you. This is the resource I was looking for. MCPS should be ashamed of itself with the kind of performance included in this report. Only B-CC, RM and Einstein are doing well with IB.

What's interesting to me is that Churchill does just a few percent below Blair on the percentage of students with 3 or higher on APs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

What makes your guess better than my guess?

dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.

Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.

I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.

It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.

From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."

Please see performance data by high school and come back to say that all of the programs offer the same quality.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230209_2022_AP_IB_Exams_HS%20Principals.pdf

Thank you. This is the resource I was looking for. MCPS should be ashamed of itself with the kind of performance included in this report. Only B-CC, RM and Einstein are doing well with IB.

What do you base that statement on? Especially keeping in mind that a lot of students take individual IB classes without being in the IB DP - just like they take individual AP classes. And, of course, especially keeping in mind that students in the RMIB magnet are in the RMIB magnet because they are students who score highly on standardized tests. It doesn't say anything about the quality of instruction in the RMIB magnet vs other IB programs.

I would be interested in numbers of IB DP candidates and IB DP recipients for each school. To calculate the success rate, you would divide the number of recipients by the number of candidates.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

What makes your guess better than my guess?

dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.

Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.

I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.

It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.

From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."

Please see performance data by high school and come back to say that all of the programs offer the same quality.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230209_2022_AP_IB_Exams_HS%20Principals.pdf

Thank you. This is the resource I was looking for. MCPS should be ashamed of itself with the kind of performance included in this report. Only B-CC, RM and Einstein are doing well with IB.

Huh??
Did you understand what you just read?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

What makes your guess better than my guess?

dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.

Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.

I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.

It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.

From MCPS:
"In 2022, the share of graduates who took at least one IB exam ranged from 15.8 to 32.8% among IB schools. The percentage of 2022 graduates who earned at least one IB score of 4 or higher varied from 14.3 to 29.8% across all schools offering the IB programs."

Please see performance data by high school and come back to say that all of the programs offer the same quality.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230209_2022_AP_IB_Exams_HS%20Principals.pdf

Thank you. This is the resource I was looking for. MCPS should be ashamed of itself with the kind of performance included in this report. Only B-CC, RM and Einstein are doing well with IB.

What do you base that statement on? Especially keeping in mind that a lot of students take individual IB classes without being in the IB DP - just like they take individual AP classes. And, of course, especially keeping in mind that students in the RMIB magnet are in the RMIB magnet because they are students who score highly on standardized tests. It doesn't say anything about the quality of instruction in the RMIB magnet vs other IB programs.

I would be interested in numbers of IB DP candidates and IB DP recipients for each school. To calculate the success rate, you would divide the number of recipients by the number of candidates.

IB Math Analysis and Approaches exam: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, RM and Einstein.

IB Bio: The only schools with more than 50% scoring 4 or higher were B-CC, Rockville, RM and Springbrook.

The IB schools that consistently have kids with mean IB exam scores lower than 4 are Kennedy, Springbrook, Watkins Mill and Seneca Valley. One of these scores had kids with a mean score below 4 in 7 exams.

That's a problem and the pattern of where the problem is (by school at least) seems pretty clear to me.

Why you see nothing wrong with those outcomes, I don't know.