What are my child's chances of getting into the IB program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Take a look at the 24-25 catalogs for the schools (selecting schools and then thr Mathematics department, in this case):

https://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/SchoolCourseCatalogs/Index/All

That catalog is not reliable. My kid at Seneca Valley HS is taking IB Theory of Knowledge, but I can't find it in the SVHS course offerings, even though it's an IB Diploma Programme requirement. The kid is also taking IB Applic Statistics Calculus SL, and that's not listed either. The English course offerings include IB Literature but not IB Language and Literature, although SVHS offers both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Take a look at the 24-25 catalogs for the schools (selecting schools and then thr Mathematics department, in this case):

https://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/SchoolCourseCatalogs/Index/All

That catalog is not reliable. My kid at Seneca Valley HS is taking IB Theory of Knowledge, but I can't find it in the SVHS course offerings, even though it's an IB Diploma Programme requirement. The kid is also taking IB Applic Statistics Calculus SL, and that's not listed either. The English course offerings include IB Literature but not IB Language and Literature, although SVHS offers both.

So, as noted in the PP, but left out in your quote, there:

As usual, MCPS offers different things at different schools, claiming to meet community demand, but only when there is a cohort (and probably vocally demanding families), leaving a student with need/interest but without a cohort with the option of maybe taking a course at Montgomery College (with the difficult logistics, there) or moving to a different pyramid (even more difficult).

And, as usual, they make this fact clear as mud -- they don't want to have to address (or even acknowledge) catchment-based academic inequity.

It would be very easy for them to be above board about differential offerings across schools. They simply don't want to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Take a look at the 24-25 catalogs for the schools (selecting schools and then thr Mathematics department, in this case):

https://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/SchoolCourseCatalogs/Index/All

That catalog is not reliable. My kid at Seneca Valley HS is taking IB Theory of Knowledge, but I can't find it in the SVHS course offerings, even though it's an IB Diploma Programme requirement. The kid is also taking IB Applic Statistics Calculus SL, and that's not listed either. The English course offerings include IB Literature but not IB Language and Literature, although SVHS offers both.

So, as noted in the PP, but left out in your quote, there:

As usual, MCPS offers different things at different schools, claiming to meet community demand, but only when there is a cohort (and probably vocally demanding families), leaving a student with need/interest but without a cohort with the option of maybe taking a course at Montgomery College (with the difficult logistics, there) or moving to a different pyramid (even more difficult).

And, as usual, they make this fact clear as mud -- they don't want to have to address (or even acknowledge) catchment-based academic inequity.

It would be very easy for them to be above board about differential offerings across schools. They simply don't want to do that.

Have you tried reading, even a little bit?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/high

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For everyone quibbling about the math courses in the different schools offering the IB diploma - take a moment and recognize that there is flexibility within the two-year IB courses for the order and grouping of topics, as long as the overall course outcomes are met.

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/ - scroll down to see the subject briefs with topics and hours for each of the two courses offered:
- Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL & HL
- Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL & HL

Every school offering the IB Diploma has to offer at least one of these courses to test in 12th grade. Depending on the school and the number of students, there are variations in which courses are offered and what testing level. So yes, in this way the programs can differ.

But even for schools offering both courses at both SL & HL level, they could have different ways of breaking up the content over two years and have different scheduling plans to offer combined courses with the general student population. This is just a difference in experience, not actual content of the course. RM specifically groups the content for the Analysis HL course to have one year be the same as AP BC Calculus, which is open to all students for scheduling purposes. The remainder of the HL content is in year-2 of the sequence. Just because the 11th grade course isn't specifically labeled as an IB course doesn't mean it isn't part of the 2-year course content.

RMIB consistently has the cohort to take that approach. B-CC may also routinely have such a cohort.

Not all of the other schools do each year, and a standout student (without a similarly able/interested cohort) at these schools may then find that the most rigorous IB coursework (e.g., that covering Analysis HL) is not available to them.

Before you start darkly alluding to some students at some IB schools in MCPS not having IB classes available to them, maybe you should look at what classes are available at the IB schools in MCPS.

Also, are you saying that IB classes at RM are NOT open to all students?

I made no statement about IB course accessibility to RM students outside the IB magnet program.

My "dark allusion" is not that, at all. It was, pretty much, a forthright statement, and appears well supported.

Take a look at the 24-25 catalogs for the schools (selecting schools and then thr Mathematics department, in this case):

https://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/SchoolCourseCatalogs/Index/All

Pretty much all offer up to AP Calc BC & AP Stats.

Some offer MV Calc/Diff Eq (not Einstein, Seneca Valley or Kennedy; RM, Springbrook, Watkins Milll & B-CC have it).

Fewer offer Linear Algebra, and none of the IB schools (Blair, Poolesville & Churchill; maybe others, but not B-CC, Whitman, Johnson or Wooton, which I checked just for the usual claims about "W" schools that enter these discussions).

Blair and Churchill (? interesting, but not entirely surprising), but not Poolesville (surprising, as it's the Blair-type SMaCS magnet for upper county), offer Complex Analysis.

Only Blair offers Discrete Math.

The last three post- AP Calc, college-level courses are not IB-related, but included for information generally relevant to discussion of differential course availability.

Only 3 IB schools even list an IB-specific math course (IB Precalc is offered at Einstein, Kennedy & RM). It looks like only RM offers IB Analysis at all (description looks to be less advanced than the APs/college-level courses, but that could be decieving). Could that be because other IB schools suggest a different set of courses (i.e., within more standard MCPS offerings, such as Honors Precalc & AP Calc) to achieve readiness for the IB exam? Could it be that IB courses are withheld from the course catalog at some schools? Perhaps, but these beg the question of whether these MCPS schools are all providing a reasonable equivalence, offering roughly the same experience/opportunity to IB enrollees acrpss the county. I think the anecdotal evidence pretty clearly points to "no".

As usual, MCPS offers different things at different schools, claiming to meet community demand, but only when there is a cohort (and probably vocally demanding families), leaving a student with need/interest but without a cohort with the option of maybe taking a course at Montgomery College (with the difficult logistics, there) or moving to a different pyramid (even more difficult).

And, as usual, they make this fact clear as mud -- they don't want to have to address (or even acknowledge) catchment-based academic inequity.

Totally agree with you. I'd also like MCPS to address the fact that many of these IB classes are actually combined IB/AP classes. Which curriculum are they being taught? What standards do these classes meet? When MCPS added the regional IB programs a few years ago, RM was supposed to transition to a regional program as well. Why hasn't this happened. Why does RM continue to have a better offerings than the regional programs and why does it continue to enroll kids as a system-wide magnet? This has never been addressed by MCPS leadership to my knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Take a look at the 24-25 catalogs for the schools (selecting schools and then thr Mathematics department, in this case):

https://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/SchoolCourseCatalogs/Index/All

That catalog is not reliable. My kid at Seneca Valley HS is taking IB Theory of Knowledge, but I can't find it in the SVHS course offerings, even though it's an IB Diploma Programme requirement. The kid is also taking IB Applic Statistics Calculus SL, and that's not listed either. The English course offerings include IB Literature but not IB Language and Literature, although SVHS offers both.

So, as noted in the PP, but left out in your quote, there:

As usual, MCPS offers different things at different schools, claiming to meet community demand, but only when there is a cohort (and probably vocally demanding families), leaving a student with need/interest but without a cohort with the option of maybe taking a course at Montgomery College (with the difficult logistics, there) or moving to a different pyramid (even more difficult).

And, as usual, they make this fact clear as mud -- they don't want to have to address (or even acknowledge) catchment-based academic inequity.

It would be very easy for them to be above board about differential offerings across schools. They simply don't want to do that.

Have you tried reading, even a little bit?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/high

Are you from MCPS central office?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Take a look at the 24-25 catalogs for the schools (selecting schools and then thr Mathematics department, in this case):

https://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/SchoolCourseCatalogs/Index/All

That catalog is not reliable. My kid at Seneca Valley HS is taking IB Theory of Knowledge, but I can't find it in the SVHS course offerings, even though it's an IB Diploma Programme requirement. The kid is also taking IB Applic Statistics Calculus SL, and that's not listed either. The English course offerings include IB Literature but not IB Language and Literature, although SVHS offers both.

So, as noted in the PP, but left out in your quote, there:

As usual, MCPS offers different things at different schools, claiming to meet community demand, but only when there is a cohort (and probably vocally demanding families), leaving a student with need/interest but without a cohort with the option of maybe taking a course at Montgomery College (with the difficult logistics, there) or moving to a different pyramid (even more difficult).

And, as usual, they make this fact clear as mud -- they don't want to have to address (or even acknowledge) catchment-based academic inequity.

It would be very easy for them to be above board about differential offerings across schools. They simply don't want to do that.

Have you tried reading, even a little bit?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/high

This is super helpful. People always say MCPS isn't transparent but I guess the info is all on their website.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Take a look at the 24-25 catalogs for the schools (selecting schools and then thr Mathematics department, in this case):

https://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/SchoolCourseCatalogs/Index/All

That catalog is not reliable. My kid at Seneca Valley HS is taking IB Theory of Knowledge, but I can't find it in the SVHS course offerings, even though it's an IB Diploma Programme requirement. The kid is also taking IB Applic Statistics Calculus SL, and that's not listed either. The English course offerings include IB Literature but not IB Language and Literature, although SVHS offers both.

So, as noted in the PP, but left out in your quote, there:

As usual, MCPS offers different things at different schools, claiming to meet community demand, but only when there is a cohort (and probably vocally demanding families), leaving a student with need/interest but without a cohort with the option of maybe taking a course at Montgomery College (with the difficult logistics, there) or moving to a different pyramid (even more difficult).

And, as usual, they make this fact clear as mud -- they don't want to have to address (or even acknowledge) catchment-based academic inequity.

It would be very easy for them to be above board about differential offerings across schools. They simply don't want to do that.

Gee, my explanation was just that nobody bothers to keep the central catalog updated and current. But if you want to attribute it to malice, go right ahead, I guess.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

What makes your guess better than my guess?

dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

What makes your guess better than my guess?

dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.

Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.

[Anonymous]

BCC is not cohorted in 9th and 10th grade, but you can take AP classes in 10th grade. AP NSL and AP Lang are pretty common in 10th grade. Those 2 classes, together with above grade level math tends to create a loose cohort in core academics.

If a kid has never experienced a magnet or isn't confident in their own intelligence or tends to try to hide their intelligence, then RM IB might be worth it over an open IB program. There is something to be said for being in a peer group that are all very intelligent kids with their own interests.

For kids who have been in the magnet program or who have very narrow or broad interests, IB can be a bad fit because it has pretty restrictive rules about what to take to fill the IB degree requirements.

My DC had a deep interest in a specific subject and wouldn't have been able to take as many classes in that area if DC had done IB, so a mix of AP and IB turned out to be a better fit.

As a BCC parent, I can say that the really bright kids find each other, both socially and academically. There is no cohorting, but they do end up in a lot of the same classes together because many of them are on an above grade level math track, which means that schedule-wise they get thrown together in a lot of non-math classes as well.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

What makes your guess better than my guess?

dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.

Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.

I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.

It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

What makes your guess better than my guess?

dp.. because they did publish the IBDP rates for the different schools, and RMIB was much higher.

Do you have the source for that and if so can you repost it? I was looking for that the other day and had a hard time finding it.

I do not think the difference in IB diploma graduation rates means what you think it means. Do you think that a higher IB graduation rate means better teachers and a better program? I don't think so. The open IB programs have a different goal - to allow anyone to take an IB class. Just because a kid chooses to take one IB class, doesn't mean that that student isn't as smart as the kids taking the full IB load. Also, many kids in open IB schools actually take a mixture of IB and AP classes that is just as rigorous and valued as an IB diploma. My DC did this and went to top 5 undergrad Ivy and top 3 grad program. No admissions committee cared that DC hadn't done full IB.

It's not the case that a lower IB diploma rate at an open IB program means a worse program or worse teaching. It is true that the class curriculum and requirements at an open IB program are exactly the same as an admission only IB program. That's what makes IB IB -- it's the same everywhere.

The admissions committee doesn't even know whether you get your IB Diploma. Assuming you get your IB Diploma, you don't get it until the summer after senior year.

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Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

IB kids take high level math. it's not a STEM program but that doesn't mean IB is weak on STEM subjects. My kids (and many of their friends) took AP Cal BC in their junior years followed by high level IB math in senior year

How did they do that? The IB math classes are two-year classes.

Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

The "two year" math is not taking IB HL math for two years. Rather, it is about taking the IB math exam after year 2. IB HL Math covers 2 years of math.

My DC did the same: Jr year AP BC Calc; senior year IB HL math and MVC/diffeq. Then took IB HL math exam senior year.

Yes, it is. You take IB math for two years. Then you take the IB math exam. That's what makes them two-year classes.

? My kid was at RMIB last year, took the HL IB math exam. They did not take HL math for 2 years. This is the pathway they took:

IBAAF
IB Pre calc
AP BC Calc
HL math & MVC

Maybe you are confusing the prior years IB label math classes with HL math.

I think what PP is saying is that the AP BC calc class serves as the first year for IB HL math. The exam covers two years worth of content which is taught to you over those two years regardless of what the class is called.

I guess so, at RM? Because elsewhere, you take IB HL math (or IB SL math) for two years. And yes, the IB exam covers two years of content.

Which IB program in MCPS does this, where you take two years of IB HL math, and not the prescribed pathway from above?

At Kennedy, IB HL Math is 2 years and the class is called Stats & Calc. The first year is equivalent of AP Stats while the 2nd year is (roughly) equivalent of AP Calc AB.

That means that the IB programs are not the same.

Here's RMIB math pathway, page 18 (19 physical page).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2022-2023-ib-course-handbook.pdf

My DC followed the path: AP BC Calc in 11th, then IB HL math and MVC in 12th.

My guess is that Kennedy doesn’t offer MVC. Einstein doesn’t. I don’t know about BCC. RM has always had the most challenging course offerings among the IB schools. MCPS plays fast and loose with the IB Math sequence and it is confusing. I had a kid transfer from an IB high school overseas. The way MCPS implements IB is a joke and diploma participation rates in these schools are abysmal.

? RMIB is super hard compared to all the other IB schools in MCPS, and the diploma rate is above 90%, has been for many many years. That's why the in cluster students not in the program choose not to participate, though they can take the classes.

The IB Diploma Programme at RM is not any harder than the IB Diploma Programme at any other school. It's the same IB Diploma Programme content. It's the same IB Diploma Programme tests. If RM adds stuff that isn't part of the IB Diploma Programme, then that isn't the IB Diploma Programme - by definition. Also, as far as I know, RM students not admitted to the magnet program in 9th grade can and do participate in the IB Diploma Programme.

The IB Diploma Programme "rate" is presumably the number of students who actually do everything required by the IB Diploma Programme, divided by the number of students participating in the the IB Diploma Programme - right? My guess is that the rate is high at every school in MCPS. You don't go into the IB Diploma Programme unless you're bright and ambitious (or your parents are). Taking IB classes =/= participating in the IB Diploma Programme.

Your guess is very wrong. I forgot where you can find the diploma graduation rates, but outside of RM, they are not great in many MCPS high schools. Especially the newer Regional IB programs at Kennedy, Watkins Mill and Springbrook.

And once again the devil is on the details. For the longest RMHS IB program was the only magnet IB program. Meaning kids from all across the county applied to be in the magnet program. As mentioned the regional sites as application programs are new. Yes several of the schools have offered IB for a while now, but it was a local school program only whereby the students could opt into the IB diploma 11th/12th or could just opt to take the classes. The commitment to completing the diploma is different. As time goes on, I would expect the regional sites to have a much higher pass rate and eventually if not soon, RMs program will stop being countywide.

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Take a look at the 24-25 catalogs for the schools (selecting schools and then thr Mathematics department, in this case):

https://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/SchoolCourseCatalogs/Index/All

That catalog is not reliable. My kid at Seneca Valley HS is taking IB Theory of Knowledge, but I can't find it in the SVHS course offerings, even though it's an IB Diploma Programme requirement. The kid is also taking IB Applic Statistics Calculus SL, and that's not listed either. The English course offerings include IB Literature but not IB Language and Literature, although SVHS offers both.

So, as noted in the PP, but left out in your quote, there:

As usual, MCPS offers different things at different schools, claiming to meet community demand, but only when there is a cohort (and probably vocally demanding families), leaving a student with need/interest but without a cohort with the option of maybe taking a course at Montgomery College (with the difficult logistics, there) or moving to a different pyramid (even more difficult).

And, as usual, they make this fact clear as mud -- they don't want to have to address (or even acknowledge) catchment-based academic inequity.

It would be very easy for them to be above board about differential offerings across schools. They simply don't want to do that.

Have you tried reading, even a little bit?

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/high

This is super helpful. People always say MCPS isn't transparent but I guess the info is all on their website.

How is this site helpful. It has no discussion of what IB classes are offered in each of the IB programs.

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