Do private school college counselors already know ED results

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the CC above is trying to say they don’t actively market some kids over others to the regional college reps visiting a school.

However, this runs counter to what everyone claims-that kids are compared first and foremost to those applying from the same school. So how can they not be compared??? Can’t have it both ways!

It’s not happening when they visit?

It happens when apps are submitted, in review.

Your kid is compared to his/her schools cohort and ranked first. Then brought to regional discussion.

Some well known HSs have “slots”….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the college counselor again w/the long post on the first page.

THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN - market the top candidates - omg. You have no clue what you are talking about.

On a different note, loved the UB/YBM shout out. I didn't know it was shut down!!!

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our counselor said he can make calls but they don't generally matter. He said this is more and more true as the people he calls are people he doesn't know very well or really at all.There was a time when a regional AO was on a territory for a long time and really got to know a school and counselor. Now they'e on for maybe two years. Common for our school to meet the regional AO for the first (and sometimes only) time when he/she comes to the school. These jobs are super underpaid. Apparently one could jump the ladder to the dean of admissions, but our head counselor only does that in the off season if no-one got into Stanford or something.

He's been a head counselor for a v long time at a well known private.

I also know there is one teacher's recommendation at our school that is very influential. One my kids was assigned to the the head counselor one year and I asked why that seemed to be and he said by that point the application is in the room and is being discussed, the dean may ask if any kids out of this pile had a recommendation from x teacher (he only writes two per year). If so, that kid usually gets in. Again, a teacher who has been with the school over 35 years.

Hopefully the school counselors are taking the opportunity to market the top candidates from the school when the regional reps come to school and the kids are in the room. Any and all opportunities should be taken.

You guys have no idea how this works. Hysterical…This does not happen.

However, kids who really want to go to a certain school and have very pushy parents or a very organized outside counselor will make sure the kid has a few bullet points or strategic questions to ask the counselor and to drop their name. And follow it up with an email. Obviously all questions should not be easily Googleable


P.S. The teacher recommendation thing though is real. If you are at a highly selective private, or a public with a very very well-known teacher (ask senior parents), it behooves you to figure out who’s getting those recs… you don’t want your kid applying to any school where that kid applies with that recommendation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the CC above is trying to say they don’t actively market some kids over others to the regional college reps visiting a school.

However, this runs counter to what everyone claims-that kids are compared first and foremost to those applying from the same school. So how can they not be compared??? Can’t have it both ways!

It’s not happening when they visit?

It happens when apps are submitted, in review.

Your kid is compared to his/her schools cohort and ranked first. Then brought to regional discussion.

Some well known HSs have “slots”….

It's not 1995 anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our counselor said he can make calls but they don't generally matter. He said this is more and more true as the people he calls are people he doesn't know very well or really at all.There was a time when a regional AO was on a territory for a long time and really got to know a school and counselor. Now they'e on for maybe two years. Common for our school to meet the regional AO for the first (and sometimes only) time when he/she comes to the school. These jobs are super underpaid. Apparently one could jump the ladder to the dean of admissions, but our head counselor only does that in the off season if no-one got into Stanford or something.

He's been a head counselor for a v long time at a well known private.

I also know there is one teacher's recommendation at our school that is very influential. One my kids was assigned to the the head counselor one year and I asked why that seemed to be and he said by that point the application is in the room and is being discussed, the dean may ask if any kids out of this pile had a recommendation from x teacher (he only writes two per year). If so, that kid usually gets in. Again, a teacher who has been with the school over 35 years.

The above is my post. To follow up:

+No, our counselors don't market any kids when colleges come to visit. I already said our counselors don't make calls on the kids behalf. They don't do anything on the kids behalf during ED/EA beyond helping with lists, reading essays, trafficking paperwork, and trying to be clear with kids about chances to various schools. Our school sends kids to the same 40 colleges over and over so they have a good idea of if you're close or not. They will also say - although the kids already know this -- something like "Yale is always hard, but this year will be extra difficult since we have 4 legacy kids applying who are above the already high admitted average from this school. I wouldn't encourage you to go that way".

+They don't market the kids, but they'll spend a little time talking up (ie informing newbies) about our school. "Now, you'll notice we don't have Honors classes here, because all the classes are at a high level" blah blah. They assume the new regional people know nothing. This is new in last 10 years, covid sure. But also people dont' want to travel for work and also get paid shit. I get it.

+Our high school limits applications which a lot of parents dislike, but honestly helps all kids IMO.

+Our high school counselor will have a sit down with a kid and their parents if they're applying RD if they already, say, have that Yale SCEA in hand. It's not brokering kids exactly. Mostly just, "let's think about what this means to your classmates" come to Jesus talk.

+They will make some calls during RD round, but they say they have no idea if they matter at all.

IOW, our high school counselor does less to market kids to colleges than other HSs, I think, and more to manage the class for optimal outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our counselor said he can make calls but they don't generally matter. He said this is more and more true as the people he calls are people he doesn't know very well or really at all.There was a time when a regional AO was on a territory for a long time and really got to know a school and counselor. Now they'e on for maybe two years. Common for our school to meet the regional AO for the first (and sometimes only) time when he/she comes to the school. These jobs are super underpaid. Apparently one could jump the ladder to the dean of admissions, but our head counselor only does that in the off season if no-one got into Stanford or something.

He's been a head counselor for a v long time at a well known private.

I also know there is one teacher's recommendation at our school that is very influential. One my kids was assigned to the the head counselor one year and I asked why that seemed to be and he said by that point the application is in the room and is being discussed, the dean may ask if any kids out of this pile had a recommendation from x teacher (he only writes two per year). If so, that kid usually gets in. Again, a teacher who has been with the school over 35 years.

The above is my post. To follow up:

+No, our counselors don't market any kids when colleges come to visit. I already said our counselors don't make calls on the kids behalf. They don't do anything on the kids behalf during ED/EA beyond helping with lists, reading essays, trafficking paperwork, and trying to be clear with kids about chances to various schools. Our school sends kids to the same 40 colleges over and over so they have a good idea of if you're close or not. They will also say - although the kids already know this -- something like "Yale is always hard, but this year will be extra difficult since we have 4 legacy kids applying who are above the already high admitted average from this school. I wouldn't encourage you to go that way".

+They don't market the kids, but they'll spend a little time talking up (ie informing newbies) about our school. "Now, you'll notice we don't have Honors classes here, because all the classes are at a high level" blah blah. They assume the new regional people know nothing. This is new in last 10 years, covid sure. But also people dont' want to travel for work and also get paid shit. I get it.

+Our high school limits applications which a lot of parents dislike, but honestly helps all kids IMO.

+Our high school counselor will have a sit down with a kid and their parents if they're applying RD if they already, say, have that Yale SCEA in hand. It's not brokering kids exactly. Mostly just, "let's think about what this means to your classmates" come to Jesus talk.

+They will make some calls during RD round, but they say they have no idea if they matter at all.

IOW, our high school counselor does less to market kids to colleges than other HSs, I think, and more to manage the class for optimal outcomes.

This sounds like a great school tbh…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the CC above is trying to say they don’t actively market some kids over others to the regional college reps visiting a school.

However, this runs counter to what everyone claims-that kids are compared first and foremost to those applying from the same school. So how can they not be compared??? Can’t have it both ways!

It’s not happening when they visit?

It happens when apps are submitted, in review.

Your kid is compared to his/her schools cohort and ranked first. Then brought to regional discussion.

Some well known HSs have “slots”….

It's not 1995 anymore.

Yes - our CCO talks about slots meaning -
“we used to get 6 Yale spots, and now typically get no more than 3”

[Anonymous]

Which school are you at? Our private CCO does nothing like what you are describing. Kids got zero feedback other one computer generated list. What you are doing is what I would have expected at a minimum and would have appreciated greatly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our counselor said he can make calls but they don't generally matter. He said this is more and more true as the people he calls are people he doesn't know very well or really at all.There was a time when a regional AO was on a territory for a long time and really got to know a school and counselor. Now they'e on for maybe two years. Common for our school to meet the regional AO for the first (and sometimes only) time when he/she comes to the school. These jobs are super underpaid. Apparently one could jump the ladder to the dean of admissions, but our head counselor only does that in the off season if no-one got into Stanford or something.

He's been a head counselor for a v long time at a well known private.

I also know there is one teacher's recommendation at our school that is very influential. One my kids was assigned to the the head counselor one year and I asked why that seemed to be and he said by that point the application is in the room and is being discussed, the dean may ask if any kids out of this pile had a recommendation from x teacher (he only writes two per year). If so, that kid usually gets in. Again, a teacher who has been with the school over 35 years.

The above is my post. To follow up:

+No, our counselors don't market any kids when colleges come to visit. I already said our counselors don't make calls on the kids behalf. They don't do anything on the kids behalf during ED/EA beyond helping with lists, reading essays, trafficking paperwork, and trying to be clear with kids about chances to various schools. Our school sends kids to the same 40 colleges over and over so they have a good idea of if you're close or not. They will also say - although the kids already know this -- something like "Yale is always hard, but this year will be extra difficult since we have 4 legacy kids applying who are above the already high admitted average from this school. I wouldn't encourage you to go that way".

+They don't market the kids, but they'll spend a little time talking up (ie informing newbies) about our school. "Now, you'll notice we don't have Honors classes here, because all the classes are at a high level" blah blah. They assume the new regional people know nothing. This is new in last 10 years, covid sure. But also people dont' want to travel for work and also get paid shit. I get it.

+Our high school limits applications which a lot of parents dislike, but honestly helps all kids IMO.

+Our high school counselor will have a sit down with a kid and their parents if they're applying RD if they already, say, have that Yale SCEA in hand. It's not brokering kids exactly. Mostly just, "let's think about what this means to your classmates" come to Jesus talk.

+They will make some calls during RD round, but they say they have no idea if they matter at all.

IOW, our high school counselor does less to market kids to colleges than other HSs, I think, and more to manage the class for optimal outcomes.

This sounds like a great school tbh…

You sound excellent at your job. Your students are lucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college counselor. The post above about the software is correct. However, many schools also have what are called counselor calls, in which they will give counselors a heads up about how things look in the pool for students from that school. The way these are handled are completely different from college to college. There is no rhyme or reason in terms of which colleges have which policies, either - selective, public, whatever.

Some colleges will give the counselor a chance to advocate on behalf of all the student, others will just provide a heads up about the decision, others will provide information that can be very useful in the case of a deferral (to help the student understand if they really have a chance or not and how to maximize it) and others will not do the calls at all.

Despite all of these differences, I can tell you two things that do not change at all. First of all, any college who takes counselor calls will take them from any high school counselor who initiates the call. You don’t have to go to Sidwell. Any random public school, parochial school, whatever. Yet SO MANY high school counselors do not realize that they have the ability to initiate these calls and a lot of kids miss out as a result. The second thing is that there would absolutely never be a situation in which a high school counselor would push certain students over others. I promise you, this is just not done. If a high school counselor even attempted to do that, the college admissions officer would not engage. But no high school counselor would even try, even if they truly hated the student, because it would make them look so bad and so unprofessional. I know so many parents think this happens, but I promise that you guys are just being a little conspiracy theory esque!

Also, for what it’s worth, I would be really surprised if counselors were calling certain kids into their offices, to have lengthy discussions about strategy based on these calls. That would be way too obvious, and no respectable counselor would risk the impact of doing something like that. Confidentiality is paramount with these calls. What’s probably happening is that the counselor is just making sure that the student has enough options going into winter break, after they have learned general information about the pools at all of the various schools about how selective things have been this year.

The bolded is rather ironic given the couple of recent CCO regimes at Sidwell specifically said they do not make these calls and that the AOs had too many applications and no time to dive in on applications from any one high school.

Sidwell went further than that. The HOS said CCO would advocate for URMs (only) to make sure they wouldn’t be impacted by Supreme Court affirmative action decision. That sounds legally questionable.

I agree. Sidwell Parent here. That email from CCO left me with many questions.

Yet did anyone raise the issue with Bryan?

Haha. I am guessing NO. Who would want the situation to get worse with a "cancellation"?

[Anonymous]

this is a great post btw. answers some of the advocacy call questions from today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a college counselor. The post above about the software is correct. However, many schools also have what are called counselor calls, in which they will give counselors a heads up about how things look in the pool for students from that school. The way these are handled are completely different from college to college. There is no rhyme or reason in terms of which colleges have which policies, either - selective, public, whatever.

Some colleges will give the counselor a chance to advocate on behalf of all the student, others will just provide a heads up about the decision, others will provide information that can be very useful in the case of a deferral (to help the student understand if they really have a chance or not and how to maximize it) and others will not do the calls at all.

Despite all of these differences, I can tell you two things that do not change at all. First of all, any college who takes counselor calls will take them from any high school counselor who initiates the call. You don’t have to go to Sidwell. Any random public school, parochial school, whatever. Yet SO MANY high school counselors do not realize that they have the ability to initiate these calls and a lot of kids miss out as a result. The second thing is that there would absolutely never be a situation in which a high school counselor would push certain students over others. I promise you, this is just not done. If a high school counselor even attempted to do that, the college admissions officer would not engage. But no high school counselor would even try, even if they truly hated the student, because it would make them look so bad and so unprofessional. I know so many parents think this happens, but I promise that you guys are just being a little conspiracy theory esque!

Also, for what it’s worth, I would be really surprised if counselors were calling certain kids into their offices, to have lengthy discussions about strategy based on these calls. That would be way too obvious, and no respectable counselor would risk the impact of doing something like that. Confidentiality is paramount with these calls. What’s probably happening is that the counselor is just making sure that the student has enough options going into winter break, after they have learned general information about the pools at all of the various schools about how selective things have been this year.

this is helpful - it makes it sounds like advocacy calls work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college counselor. The post above about the software is correct. However, many schools also have what are called counselor calls, in which they will give counselors a heads up about how things look in the pool for students from that school. The way these are handled are completely different from college to college. There is no rhyme or reason in terms of which colleges have which policies, either - selective, public, whatever.

Some colleges will give the counselor a chance to advocate on behalf of all the student, others will just provide a heads up about the decision, others will provide information that can be very useful in the case of a deferral (to help the student understand if they really have a chance or not and how to maximize it) and others will not do the calls at all.

Despite all of these differences, I can tell you two things that do not change at all. First of all, any college who takes counselor calls will take them from any high school counselor who initiates the call. You don’t have to go to Sidwell. Any random public school, parochial school, whatever. Yet SO MANY high school counselors do not realize that they have the ability to initiate these calls and a lot of kids miss out as a result. The second thing is that there would absolutely never be a situation in which a high school counselor would push certain students over others. I promise you, this is just not done. If a high school counselor even attempted to do that, the college admissions officer would not engage. But no high school counselor would even try, even if they truly hated the student, because it would make them look so bad and so unprofessional. I know so many parents think this happens, but I promise that you guys are just being a little conspiracy theory esque!

Also, for what it’s worth, I would be really surprised if counselors were calling certain kids into their offices, to have lengthy discussions about strategy based on these calls. That would be way too obvious, and no respectable counselor would risk the impact of doing something like that. Confidentiality is paramount with these calls. What’s probably happening is that the counselor is just making sure that the student has enough options going into winter break, after they have learned general information about the pools at all of the various schools about how selective things have been this year.

this is helpful - it makes it sounds like advocacy calls work?

This post is from 2023. The advocacy calls aren't taken at many colleges these days or they take them to be polite, but it doesn't do anything.

[Anonymous]

Missed this post the first time around, but thought I may as well add an anecdata point from December 2024. DC’s counselor at feeder private emailed us an hour before T5 decision came out, suggesting more safeties for DC to consider. We took this to mean she knew DC was about to receive bad news, so imagine our surprise when DC actually checked their portal and was greeted by confetti. My takeaway - sometimes coincidences are just that.

[Anonymous]

To be honest I am not all impressed with the college admissions of the Sidwell friends, Georgetown days etc. looking back I would have sent my child to basis if it existed. Better results overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in a top 10 private hs (in the USA not dmv) and our counselors no longer do “counselor calls”. They do write letters and they’ll help strategize w deferrals. They know what each college wants.

They rarely know before kid knows, at least not immediately. To the extent that we get emails, “make sure you tell me the college result. I’m invested”

They’ve told us about the olden days when they’d have weekends - top feeders and top AOs. Our HS said they were yucky but effective - and on balance it’s better without them.

Alas, the hoi polloi annd their incessant claptrap.

I for one miss the days when the headmasters at Exeter and Andover would just meet for cocktails at Mory’s or the Faculty Club and separate the wheat from the chaff. Ordered and proper, like true gentlemen.

Now we’ve got a test-free, grade agnostic, family agnostic, free-for-all where it seems the finest attribute one might demonstrate is to be a bald lesbian of color. At a minimum, the entire process revolves around decorating yourself as a persistent victim of something or other. God forbid we leave leadership to men who were raised with confidence and an innate sense of noblesse oblige.

These were not cocktails. They were conferences. You can google this.

Right those were the good old days - quotas for Jewish students, no women…..best thing HYPMS have done since I went years ago is actually made it possible for First Gen kids and affordable for very low income.