Do private school college counselors already know ED results

[Anonymous]

I spoke to my kid's school counselor a couple days after a T20 notification, and the counselor had recently spoken with the AO on the phone. I didn't ask for details but it sounded like the call was before the official notification went out.

AO said she wanted to know what he could do to yield the kid . . .

[Anonymous]

Do you think schools, like Harvard who report a little later (12/18), are still making last minute decisions or is it basically done?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to my kid's school counselor a couple days after a T20 notification, and the counselor had recently spoken with the AO on the phone. I didn't ask for details but it sounded like the call was before the official notification went out.

AO said she wanted to know what he could do to yield the kid . . .

What does this even mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Missed this post the first time around, but thought I may as well add an anecdata point from December 2024. DC’s counselor at feeder private emailed us an hour before T5 decision came out, suggesting more safeties for DC to consider. We took this to mean she knew DC was about to receive bad news, so imagine our surprise when DC actually checked their portal and was greeted by confetti. My takeaway - sometimes coincidences are just that.

That's some good conditioning....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our counselor said he can make calls but they don't generally matter. He said this is more and more true as the people he calls are people he doesn't know very well or really at all.There was a time when a regional AO was on a territory for a long time and really got to know a school and counselor. Now they'e on for maybe two years. Common for our school to meet the regional AO for the first (and sometimes only) time when he/she comes to the school. These jobs are super underpaid. Apparently one could jump the ladder to the dean of admissions, but our head counselor only does that in the off season if no-one got into Stanford or something.

He's been a head counselor for a v long time at a well known private.

I also know there is one teacher's recommendation at our school that is very influential. One my kids was assigned to the the head counselor one year and I asked why that seemed to be and he said by that point the application is in the room and is being discussed, the dean may ask if any kids out of this pile had a recommendation from x teacher (he only writes two per year). If so, that kid usually gets in. Again, a teacher who has been with the school over 35 years.

The above is my post. To follow up:

+No, our counselors don't market any kids when colleges come to visit. I already said our counselors don't make calls on the kids behalf. They don't do anything on the kids behalf during ED/EA beyond helping with lists, reading essays, trafficking paperwork, and trying to be clear with kids about chances to various schools. Our school sends kids to the same 40 colleges over and over so they have a good idea of if you're close or not. They will also say - although the kids already know this -- something like "Yale is always hard, but this year will be extra difficult since we have 4 legacy kids applying who are above the already high admitted average from this school. I wouldn't encourage you to go that way".

+They don't market the kids, but they'll spend a little time talking up (ie informing newbies) about our school. "Now, you'll notice we don't have Honors classes here, because all the classes are at a high level" blah blah. They assume the new regional people know nothing. This is new in last 10 years, covid sure. But also people dont' want to travel for work and also get paid shit. I get it.

+Our high school limits applications which a lot of parents dislike, but honestly helps all kids IMO.

+Our high school counselor will have a sit down with a kid and their parents if they're applying RD if they already, say, have that Yale SCEA in hand. It's not brokering kids exactly. Mostly just, "let's think about what this means to your classmates" come to Jesus talk.

+They will make some calls during RD round, but they say they have no idea if they matter at all.

IOW, our high school counselor does less to market kids to colleges than other HSs, I think, and more to manage the class for optimal outcomes.

Our counselor basically told us that DD had an extremely strong chance of admission to a particular T20 school that her private feeds into in the EA round. This school is DD's first choice. A few weeks ago DD expressed a desire to apply to additional reach schools in the RD round even if she got into this first choice school. Her counselor then asked her if she had any intensions to attend those schools if admitted, and when she confirmed that she still had the other as her first choice, the counselor encouraged her to be done in December if she got in. I think this is good advice and only fair to other students applying to those other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college counselor. The post above about the software is correct. However, many schools also have what are called counselor calls, in which they will give counselors a heads up about how things look in the pool for students from that school. The way these are handled are completely different from college to college. There is no rhyme or reason in terms of which colleges have which policies, either - selective, public, whatever.

Some colleges will give the counselor a chance to advocate on behalf of all the student, others will just provide a heads up about the decision, others will provide information that can be very useful in the case of a deferral (to help the student understand if they really have a chance or not and how to maximize it) and others will not do the calls at all.

Despite all of these differences, I can tell you two things that do not change at all. First of all, any college who takes counselor calls will take them from any high school counselor who initiates the call. You don’t have to go to Sidwell. Any random public school, parochial school, whatever. Yet SO MANY high school counselors do not realize that they have the ability to initiate these calls and a lot of kids miss out as a result. The second thing is that there would absolutely never be a situation in which a high school counselor would push certain students over others. I promise you, this is just not done. If a high school counselor even attempted to do that, the college admissions officer would not engage. But no high school counselor would even try, even if they truly hated the student, because it would make them look so bad and so unprofessional. I know so many parents think this happens, but I promise that you guys are just being a little conspiracy theory esque!

Also, for what it’s worth, I would be really surprised if counselors were calling certain kids into their offices, to have lengthy discussions about strategy based on these calls. That would be way too obvious, and no respectable counselor would risk the impact of doing something like that. Confidentiality is paramount with these calls. What’s probably happening is that the counselor is just making sure that the student has enough options going into winter break, after they have learned general information about the pools at all of the various schools about how selective things have been this year.

Agreed that is likely what appears to be happening at our school, but it is interesting that the few kids that have been called in - generally all really really strong/top stats - but all white or Asian. Have heard anecdotally that the CCO advice has been good and they are encouraging /expanding lists strategically.

Very specific advice about certain selective schools that should be added onto RD list. While it is good advice, it is very late in the cycle to start this conversation, so parents are assuming there is something else driving this new focus.

Stalker

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a college counselor. The post above about the software is correct. However, many schools also have what are called counselor calls, in which they will give counselors a heads up about how things look in the pool for students from that school. The way these are handled are completely different from college to college. There is no rhyme or reason in terms of which colleges have which policies, either - selective, public, whatever.

Some colleges will give the counselor a chance to advocate on behalf of all the student, others will just provide a heads up about the decision, others will provide information that can be very useful in the case of a deferral (to help the student understand if they really have a chance or not and how to maximize it) and others will not do the calls at all.

Despite all of these differences, I can tell you two things that do not change at all. First of all, any college who takes counselor calls will take them from any high school counselor who initiates the call. You don’t have to go to Sidwell. Any random public school, parochial school, whatever. Yet SO MANY high school counselors do not realize that they have the ability to initiate these calls and a lot of kids miss out as a result. The second thing is that there would absolutely never be a situation in which a high school counselor would push certain students over others. I promise you, this is just not done. If a high school counselor even attempted to do that, the college admissions officer would not engage. But no high school counselor would even try, even if they truly hated the student, because it would make them look so bad and so unprofessional. I know so many parents think this happens, but I promise that you guys are just being a little conspiracy theory esque!

Also, for what it’s worth, I would be really surprised if counselors were calling certain kids into their offices, to have lengthy discussions about strategy based on these calls. That would be way too obvious, and no respectable counselor would risk the impact of doing something like that. Confidentiality is paramount with these calls. What’s probably happening is that the counselor is just making sure that the student has enough options going into winter break, after they have learned general information about the pools at all of the various schools about how selective things have been this year.

public school counselors do not have the bandwidth to make these calls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in a top 10 private hs (in the USA not dmv) and our counselors no longer do “counselor calls”. They do write letters and they’ll help strategize w deferrals. They know what each college wants.

They rarely know before kid knows, at least not immediately. To the extent that we get emails, “make sure you tell me the college result. I’m invested”

They’ve told us about the olden days when they’d have weekends - top feeders and top AOs. Our HS said they were yucky but effective - and on balance it’s better without them.

Alas, the hoi polloi annd their incessant claptrap.

I for one miss the days when the headmasters at Exeter and Andover would just meet for cocktails at Mory’s or the Faculty Club and separate the wheat from the chaff. Ordered and proper, like true gentlemen.

Now we’ve got a test-free, grade agnostic, family agnostic, free-for-all where it seems the finest attribute one might demonstrate is to be a bald lesbian of color. At a minimum, the entire process revolves around decorating yourself as a persistent victim of something or other. God forbid we leave leadership to men who were raised with confidence and an innate sense of noblesse oblige.

Like Dubya?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to my kid's school counselor a couple days after a T20 notification, and the counselor had recently spoken with the AO on the phone. I didn't ask for details but it sounded like the call was before the official notification went out.

AO said she wanted to know what he could do to yield the kid . . .

What does this even mean?

DP but I think that poster hopes we believe that an AO called her kids school in the hope of securing said kid as a freshman. Hilarious nonsense, obviously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^Test optional was adapted by colleges after Covid, which drove up applications to places that were largely out of reach pre-Covid. It basically gave colleges Carte Blanche to further shroud admissions processes and made the whole thing incredibly unpredictable.

Add the surge in DEI and it's the wild west.

[Anonymous]

I know our private feeder has one influential contact at one T20 school. That person used to work at our school and has a call with one counselor every year. but that's it. no other school

[Anonymous]

They want - no need - full pay kids now. They’ll go to private HS and the same ones year after year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a college counselor. The post above about the software is correct. However, many schools also have what are called counselor calls, in which they will give counselors a heads up about how things look in the pool for students from that school. The way these are handled are completely different from college to college. There is no rhyme or reason in terms of which colleges have which policies, either - selective, public, whatever.

Some colleges will give the counselor a chance to advocate on behalf of all the student, others will just provide a heads up about the decision, others will provide information that can be very useful in the case of a deferral (to help the student understand if they really have a chance or not and how to maximize it) and others will not do the calls at all.

Despite all of these differences, I can tell you two things that do not change at all. First of all, any college who takes counselor calls will take them from any high school counselor who initiates the call. You don’t have to go to Sidwell. Any random public school, parochial school, whatever. Yet SO MANY high school counselors do not realize that they have the ability to initiate these calls and a lot of kids miss out as a result. The second thing is that there would absolutely never be a situation in which a high school counselor would push certain students over others. I promise you, this is just not done. If a high school counselor even attempted to do that, the college admissions officer would not engage. But no high school counselor would even try, even if they truly hated the student, because it would make them look so bad and so unprofessional. I know so many parents think this happens, but I promise that you guys are just being a little conspiracy theory esque!

Also, for what it’s worth, I would be really surprised if counselors were calling certain kids into their offices, to have lengthy discussions about strategy based on these calls. That would be way too obvious, and no respectable counselor would risk the impact of doing something like that. Confidentiality is paramount with these calls. What’s probably happening is that the counselor is just making sure that the student has enough options going into winter break, after they have learned general information about the pools at all of the various schools about how selective things have been this year.

this is a classic communications failure. "so many customers didn't know we were even open on Sunday!" that's a you problem. colleges should be clear to ALL schools about what counselors can do or can't do. they should make it clear to parents as well. unless, that is, the colleges are just fine limiting calls to the 35 feeders they've gotten calls from for the last 50 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our counselor said he can make calls but they don't generally matter. He said this is more and more true as the people he calls are people he doesn't know very well or really at all.There was a time when a regional AO was on a territory for a long time and really got to know a school and counselor. Now they'e on for maybe two years. Common for our school to meet the regional AO for the first (and sometimes only) time when he/she comes to the school. These jobs are super underpaid. Apparently one could jump the ladder to the dean of admissions, but our head counselor only does that in the off season if no-one got into Stanford or something.

He's been a head counselor for a v long time at a well known private.

I also know there is one teacher's recommendation at our school that is very influential. One my kids was assigned to the the head counselor one year and I asked why that seemed to be and he said by that point the application is in the room and is being discussed, the dean may ask if any kids out of this pile had a recommendation from x teacher (he only writes two per year). If so, that kid usually gets in. Again, a teacher who has been with the school over 35 years.

Hopefully the school counselors are taking the opportunity to market the top candidates from the school when the regional reps come to school and the kids are in the room. Any and all opportunities should be taken.

You guys have no idea how this works. Hysterical…This does not happen.

However, kids who really want to go to a certain school and have very pushy parents or a very organized outside counselor will make sure the kid has a few bullet points or strategic questions to ask the counselor and to drop their name. And follow it up with an email. Obviously all questions should not be easily Googleable


P.S. The teacher recommendation thing though is real. If you are at a highly selective private, or a public with a very very well-known teacher (ask senior parents), it behooves you to figure out who’s getting those recs… you don’t want your kid applying to any school where that kid applies with that recommendation.

WHy? That kid can only get accepted to any school once.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They want - no need - full pay kids now. They’ll go to private HS and the same ones year after year.

Well my full pay kid was just deferred from a school he should have easily gotten into based on stats; it seems full
pay is not as important as some may think.