17yo arrested by MPD for killing 14yo. Mother watched

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one of those stories which simply has no empathetic response except that this young man, the murderer, never had a chance. And that is sad.

Murderer and victim. And something must also be wrong with the mom. I know you think that this is just a case of bad people, but it's all tied up in the dehumanizing of certain segments of our population over generations.

You really think this is the case???
They are bad people and need to be punished. Don’t you dare try and make them the victims.

NP. I think it is most likely the case. And that doesn't mean they aren't "bad people and need to be punished," pp is saying it isn't "JUST a case of bad people." People who victimize can also be victims.

I am the pp who noted the role of dehumanization. The above is my point. Yes, they should absolutely be punished. But you all are fooling yourself if you think they are a$$holes just because. Read the body keeps score. And even nickeled and dimed or maid if you want to see how people sometimes have a limited range of options to choose from and make choices that seem utterly outrageous to us.

Yes, some people have generational trauma and can overcome it, but many cannot. And no one is blaming the white folks on this thread per se, but you must stop being so defensive about things that other folks have done and continue to do that hurts certain segments of the population (whether it be poc, or poor, or lgbt, or disabled, whatever).

I can buy the generational trauma. I can buy that we must help kids break free from the generational trauma. What I don't want to happen, is the victims of generational trauma get a pass/reduced jail time for their crimes because of the generational trauma.

Yes - try to help them but once they commit the crime, they need to be punished. Don't want to be punished? Then take the help that is being given and don't commit crimes.

JFC thank you. I come from a part of the country where there is rampant "generational trauma" in white rural and also indigenous communities. Multi-generational poverty, utter and complete lack of jobs, some of the worst schools in the United States.

You know what is NOT happening in these towns and counties? Daily drive-by shootings. Daily carjackings by tweens FFS. Teens shooting bus drivers (there's not Metro obv.) Teens shooting at each other across playgrounds and hitting bystanders instead.

Oh I know, rural poor American is rife with its own set of dysfunction and deaths of despair. But non-stop lethal violence directed at everyone who may have disrespected you is emphatically NOT a required outcome of a shitty upbringing. Stop excusing these violent criminals to assuage your white UMC guilt.

I don’t know what supposed rural areas you are referring to, but violent crime in and around most reservations in the U.S. is very high. For example, in Yakima, WA murders and aggravated assaults are at rates twice the national average.
https://www.niche.com/places-to-live/yakima-yakima-wa/crime-safety/

In addition, the poorest city in West Virginia is Huntington. Violent crime there is even worse, with murder rates almost 4 times the national average.
https://www.niche.com/places-to-live/huntington-cabell-wv/crime-safety/

For reference, violent crime in DC is marginally worse than in Huntington, but not dramatically so.
https://www.niche.com/places-to-live/washington-dc-district-of-columbia-dc/crime-safety/

So the data doesn’t back up your veiled racism. The only thing special about DC than the rest of the country is that violent crime is increasing.

I would suspect most of the violent crime in Huntington is domestic. That doesnt make it better. There is no better. But a culture glorifying violence to kids is gonna end up with violent kids. Every nation with child soldiers knows this. Every revolution knows this. Every gang knows this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone makes all kinds of excuses for this kind or any kind of bad or inappropriate behavior and this is why kids act this way. The adults in their lives think it's ok and cannot be bothered parenting.

There's racism built in. Oh those people can't behave any better than that.

Anyone else disturbed that the posters touting the generational trauma excuse are ironically saying the EXACT SAME THING as the racists—that the criminals can’t help themselves??!!

WUT THE FUHK

It's called the soft racism of low expectations. Welcome to progressive America 2023 (almost '24).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one of those stories which simply has no empathetic response except that this young man, the murderer, never had a chance. And that is sad.

Murderer and victim. And something must also be wrong with the mom. I know you think that this is just a case of bad people, but it's all tied up in the dehumanizing of certain segments of our population over generations.

You really think this is the case???
They are bad people and need to be punished. Don’t you dare try and make them the victims.

NP. I think it is most likely the case. And that doesn't mean they aren't "bad people and need to be punished," pp is saying it isn't "JUST a case of bad people." People who victimize can also be victims.

I am the pp who noted the role of dehumanization. The above is my point. Yes, they should absolutely be punished. But you all are fooling yourself if you think they are a$$holes just because. Read the body keeps score. And even nickeled and dimed or maid if you want to see how people sometimes have a limited range of options to choose from and make choices that seem utterly outrageous to us.

Yes, some people have generational trauma and can overcome it, but many cannot. And no one is blaming the white folks on this thread per se, but you must stop being so defensive about things that other folks have done and continue to do that hurts certain segments of the population (whether it be poc, or poor, or lgbt, or disabled, whatever).

I can buy the generational trauma. I can buy that we must help kids break free from the generational trauma. What I don't want to happen, is the victims of generational trauma get a pass/reduced jail time for their crimes because of the generational trauma.

Yes - try to help them but once they commit the crime, they need to be punished. Don't want to be punished? Then take the help that is being given and don't commit crimes.

JFC thank you. I come from a part of the country where there is rampant "generational trauma" in white rural and also indigenous communities. Multi-generational poverty, utter and complete lack of jobs, some of the worst schools in the United States.

You know what is NOT happening in these towns and counties? Daily drive-by shootings. Daily carjackings by tweens FFS. Teens shooting bus drivers (there's not Metro obv.) Teens shooting at each other across playgrounds and hitting bystanders instead.

Oh I know, rural poor American is rife with its own set of dysfunction and deaths of despair. But non-stop lethal violence directed at everyone who may have disrespected you is emphatically NOT a required outcome of a shitty upbringing. Stop excusing these violent criminals to assuage your white UMC guilt.

I don’t know what supposed rural areas you are referring to, but violent crime in and around most reservations in the U.S. is very high. For example, in Yakima, WA murders and aggravated assaults are at rates twice the national average.
https://www.niche.com/places-to-live/yakima-yakima-wa/crime-safety/

In addition, the poorest city in West Virginia is Huntington. Violent crime there is even worse, with murder rates almost 4 times the national average.
https://www.niche.com/places-to-live/huntington-cabell-wv/crime-safety/

For reference, violent crime in DC is marginally worse than in Huntington, but not dramatically so.
https://www.niche.com/places-to-live/washington-dc-district-of-columbia-dc/crime-safety/

So the data doesn’t back up your veiled racism. The only thing special about DC than the rest of the country is that violent crime is increasing.

I would suspect most of the violent crime in Huntington is domestic. That doesnt make it better. There is no better. But a culture glorifying violence to kids is gonna end up with violent kids. Every nation with child soldiers knows this. Every revolution knows this. Every gang knows this.

Possible but I suspect that it's the usual - drug related or just "regular" crime.

Crime rates are high in rural areas, in small towns - they aren't Shangri La.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one of those stories which simply has no empathetic response except that this young man, the murderer, never had a chance. And that is sad.

Murderer and victim. And something must also be wrong with the mom. I know you think that this is just a case of bad people, but it's all tied up in the dehumanizing of certain segments of our population over generations.

You really think this is the case???
They are bad people and need to be punished. Don’t you dare try and make them the victims.

NP. I think it is most likely the case. And that doesn't mean they aren't "bad people and need to be punished," pp is saying it isn't "JUST a case of bad people." People who victimize can also be victims.

I am the pp who noted the role of dehumanization. The above is my point. Yes, they should absolutely be punished. But you all are fooling yourself if you think they are a$$holes just because. Read the body keeps score. And even nickeled and dimed or maid if you want to see how people sometimes have a limited range of options to choose from and make choices that seem utterly outrageous to us.

Yes, some people have generational trauma and can overcome it, but many cannot. And no one is blaming the white folks on this thread per se, but you must stop being so defensive about things that other folks have done and continue to do that hurts certain segments of the population (whether it be poc, or poor, or lgbt, or disabled, whatever).

I can buy the generational trauma. I can buy that we must help kids break free from the generational trauma. What I don't want to happen, is the victims of generational trauma get a pass/reduced jail time for their crimes because of the generational trauma.

Yes - try to help them but once they commit the crime, they need to be punished. Don't want to be punished? Then take the help that is being given and don't commit crimes.

+1

I also think we use generational trauma as an excuse but never are open to the extreme solutions needed to break that cycle. One of which is to remove more children from their home environment. This mother is clearly unfit and a danger to society. Her child only had a chance if he wasn’t raised by her. But that won’t fly in our society so we just throw money at schools and social programs and get no traction on breaking this cycle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Janeese Lewis-George says we can't arrest 17 year olds for murder because jail will "traumatize" them.

Oh ffs. Jail WILL traumatize them. Incarceration is a traumatic experience. You can have the points you have without implying that it's untrue that jail will be traumatic. It absolutely will be.

Also, generations of disenfranchisement do actually have a lot to do with how people got to the points they got to. It is not making excuses to point out that structural realities exist that make "personal responsibility" a very reductive response to a complicated problem.

These murderers exalt in the power they have to prey over their victims (who are more often than not suffering from disenfranchisement. To try to turn the killer into someone you boo hoo over is why we have so many killers in this city.

Jail should be less traumatic, but also a place we do not hesitate to lock up killers for a long time.

It is not "turning the killer into someone you boo hoo over" to point out that these people are suffering the same disenfranchisement in the same community. It is a complicated problem that your particular kind of rhetoric does nothing to solve. This is not an emotional argument, but you're making it an emotional argument with language like "exalt in the power" and "boo hoo." We have "so many killers in this city" because of a lot of extreme poverty and generational trauma, not because we're being too light on sending 17yo to adult prisons.

+200

[Anonymous]

Are you using the term extreme poverty as a description or the actual U.N. definition? I don’t think the US has high rates of extreme poverty as defined by the UN or World Bank.

[Anonymous]

Is this the same kid kicked out of FCPS for being a suspected murderer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this the same kid kicked out of FCPS for being a suspected murderer?

Is this the same kid

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1172155.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am generally not a supporter of capital punishment. But it’s noteworthy that until 1962 DC had a mandatory death sentence for anyone convicted of first degree murder. Punishment for those convicted was certain and relatively swift. And there were a lot fewer murders.

Maybe there were a lot fewer guns available for the ones who were willing and able to kill. Maybe they were kept in the back room and not roaming the streets. Maybe it had little to do with capitol punishment or nothing at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Janeese Lewis-George says we can't arrest 17 year olds for murder because jail will "traumatize" them.

Oh ffs. Jail WILL traumatize them. Incarceration is a traumatic experience. You can have the points you have without implying that it's untrue that jail will be traumatic. It absolutely will be.

Also, generations of disenfranchisement do actually have a lot to do with how people got to the points they got to. It is not making excuses to point out that structural realities exist that make "personal responsibility" a very reductive response to a complicated problem.

These murderers exalt in the power they have to prey over their victims (who are more often than not suffering from disenfranchisement. To try to turn the killer into someone you boo hoo over is why we have so many killers in this city.

Jail should be less traumatic, but also a place we do not hesitate to lock up killers for a long time.

It is not "turning the killer into someone you boo hoo over" to point out that these people are suffering the same disenfranchisement in the same community. It is a complicated problem that your particular kind of rhetoric does nothing to solve. This is not an emotional argument, but you're making it an emotional argument with language like "exalt in the power" and "boo hoo." We have "so many killers in this city" because of a lot of extreme poverty and generational trauma, not because we're being too light on sending 17yo to adult prisons.

+200

Don’t forget drugs and crime are glorified in their culture. How do you fix that?