Colleges should require scores if test is taken

[Anonymous]

It's fascinating to see so many posters in this forum diminishing standardized tests, but then insisting that their DC aced them anyway.

Meanwhile, according to the 2023 Presidential Scholar program, the Delaware / Maryland / D.C. / Virginia region apparently produced less than 400 students who were able to achieve a composite 36 on the ACT (with perfect 36 subparts) or a composite 1600 on the SAT.

Not even enough candidates to occupy 1/2 the seats in the freshman class at the smallest of the T20 schools.

[Anonymous]

I think they should get rid of the tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think scores should be required, period.

The "doesn't test well" is a myth. My son with special needs didn't test well until we got him diagnosed, taught him organizational skills and half-medicated (he couldn't take the optimal dose of meds due to medical concerns, but a little was better than nothing).

So, without significant intervention, your kid didn't test well. It required diagnosis, training, and medication. What about kids without the resources and time and knowledge to get those things? For whom standardized tests don't actually reflect their cognitive abilities or their knowledge?

PP you replied to. Too bad for them. I think we should have universal healthcare and neuropsychs should be covered by insurance. I think meds should be cheaper.

But it’s incredibly frustrating to dumb down the whole process just for a minority of kids.

***I would feel that way EVEN if my kid had bad scores!***

My native country has no accommodations or services in school for kids with disabilities. My ADHD hindered me significantly. But I do appreciate that they still hold students to high academic standards. It’s all about grades and test scores. No extra-curriculars, hooks or nonsense allowed.

Yes, yes we know where you are from. Could you put that in the OP next time and every time in these college threads so we can skip them? And feel free to send your child to college in India.

Yikes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think scores should be required, period.

The "doesn't test well" is a myth. My son with special needs didn't test well until we got him diagnosed, taught him organizational skills and half-medicated (he couldn't take the optimal dose of meds due to medical concerns, but a little was better than nothing).

Are you really trying to say that kids who don’t test well are lazy or something? Take your asinine theory and shove it.

I don’t think they’re lazy. I just don’t think they should be able to rely on litigious parents who use bulldozer tactics to knock down natural barriers that were designed to match capacity with suitable opportunity.

Your fancy wording leaves out equity. Neurodivergent kids can’t always perform the best on a test designed for neurotypical people. Do schools want to benefit from diversity or not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think scores should be required, period.

The "doesn't test well" is a myth. My son with special needs didn't test well until we got him diagnosed, taught him organizational skills and half-medicated (he couldn't take the optimal dose of meds due to medical concerns, but a little was better than nothing).

Are you really trying to say that kids who don’t test well are lazy or something? Take your asinine theory and shove it.

I don’t think they’re lazy. I just don’t think they should be able to rely on litigious parents who use bulldozer tactics to knock down natural barriers that were designed to match capacity with suitable opportunity.

Your fancy wording leaves out equity. Neurodivergent kids can’t always perform the best on a test designed for neurotypical people. Do schools want to benefit from diversity or not?

Diversity is important. I'm not disputing that. What I'm suggesting is that the wholesale reliance on GPA renders the system flawed.

To your example, if a neurodivergent kid has struggles with standardized tests, what is the probability that they don't also struggle with the inputs to their GPA?

I would expect to see struggles with their GPA, too. So my suggestion, or criticism, isn't aimed at their seat at the table anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should get together with the poster that wants to enforce AP tests. Or are you that poster?🤔

I honestly don't get this mentality. It's as if they feel kids need to be punished for not living up to some artificial standard. Is there a strong correlation between collegiate success beyond a point with SAT scores? How much better does a kid who scores 1560 do than one who achieves 1500?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should get together with the poster that wants to enforce AP tests. Or are you that poster?🤔

I honestly don't get this mentality. It's as if they feel kids need to be punished for not living up to some artificial standard. Is there a strong correlation between collegiate success beyond a point with SAT scores? How much better does a kid who scores 1560 do than one who achieves 1500?

Now do GPAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should get together with the poster that wants to enforce AP tests. Or are you that poster?🤔

I honestly don't get this mentality. It's as if they feel kids need to be punished for not living up to some artificial standard. Is there a strong correlation between collegiate success beyond a point with SAT scores? How much better does a kid who scores 1560 do than one who achieves 1500?

Now do GPAs.

Better still, do class rank!

(eager to learn how the valedictorian with a 4.00 unweighted GPA is incalculably superior to the kid who is not even Top 25% with a 3.92 unweighted GPA)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think scores should be required, period.

The "doesn't test well" is a myth. My son with special needs didn't test well until we got him diagnosed, taught him organizational skills and half-medicated (he couldn't take the optimal dose of meds due to medical concerns, but a little was better than nothing).

The fact that you have a “special needs” child and the process of getting him help didn’t teach you a damn dose of empathy or understanding for similar or even worse off kids for whom the “solution” isn’t so neat and tidy says a lot about you. The universe tried to teach you a lesson to make you a better person and you failed.

No. You are wrong. The only way we can keep making progress in this world is to push the high-achieving people to the top of the chain, to give them opportunities to change the world.

I am humble enough to recognize that this may not be my family. My kids will find their place in the world, I don't worry about that. But as a species, we need to stay competitive, figure out a way to mitigate climate change, manage massive financial upheavals, travel to other planets, cure diseases, harness AI, etc. If you deliberately prevent the talented from rising, by eliminating the easiest, simplest and most efficient filters at our disposal, then you are NOT helping our species survive.

This isn't about my kid or your kid. It's about a more long-term approach to specie evolution.

I'm absolutely not wrong, you have a very narrow, black/white world view. Elite schools are filled with strong students. If a small percentage of them can't keep up or choose a different path, that doesn't mean the system is doomed. Talent is rising just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think scores should be required, period.

The "doesn't test well" is a myth. My son with special needs didn't test well until we got him diagnosed, taught him organizational skills and half-medicated (he couldn't take the optimal dose of meds due to medical concerns, but a little was better than nothing).

The fact that you have a “special needs” child and the process of getting him help didn’t teach you a damn dose of empathy or understanding for similar or even worse off kids for whom the “solution” isn’t so neat and tidy says a lot about you. The universe tried to teach you a lesson to make you a better person and you failed.

No. You are wrong. The only way we can keep making progress in this world is to push the high-achieving people to the top of the chain, to give them opportunities to change the world.

I am humble enough to recognize that this may not be my family. My kids will find their place in the world, I don't worry about that. But as a species, we need to stay competitive, figure out a way to mitigate climate change, manage massive financial upheavals, travel to other planets, cure diseases, harness AI, etc. If you deliberately prevent the talented from rising, by eliminating the easiest, simplest and most efficient filters at our disposal, then you are NOT helping our species survive.

This isn't about my kid or your kid. It's about a more long-term approach to specie evolution.

I'm absolutely not wrong, you have a very narrow, black/white world view. Elite schools are filled with strong students. If a small percentage of them can't keep up or choose a different path, that doesn't mean the system is doomed. Talent is rising just fine.

Let's cut to the chase.

GPAs are inflated beyond belief. There are a blizzard of ways in which students have learned, primarily through social engineering, to produce slight advantages throughout the academic term - which, collectively, all but guarantee an A grade on the transcript.

Standardized test results, on the other hand, are far more difficult to manipulate (as evidenced by the relatively flat score progression over the past 45 years [allowing for scale adjustments]). For that reason, they are a more consistent, reliable way of predicting success in the college environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is all so the testing companies (and the whole test prep Industry) make more money. I bet they and the wealthy parents would lobby against this.

(Should they only be allowed to take it once? Twice?)

Says the posters that pay thousands of dollars for their private College Counselor/consultant, essay editor/writer and tutor. Give me a break!!!

My kid used a Barron's test prep book like I did as a kid. Straight A student--who hit a 35 ACT first try end of Sophomore year.

Taking away more and more indicators of merit are ridiculous and is why we have way too many applicants paying $$$ to apply to 30+ colleges---90% of them they wouldn't be able to if scores were actually required.

The more ways to evaluate a candidate: Standardized tests/AP exam scores/GPAs/recommendations/writing sample, etc., is a good thing.

Making the process to get into an academic institution 90% holistic is lowering standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Better idea.. Colleges should require scores. Period. Oh wait, that used to be the case.. wonder when the idiots showed up and changed that.

The dumbing down of America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better idea.. Colleges should require scores. Period. Oh wait, that used to be the case.. wonder when the idiots showed up and changed that.

The dumbing down of America.

Right along with: we can't notify NMS because that will make the other students feel bad about themselves. (Ffx)
And: we cannot teach any new material to students during Covid pandemic. (APS)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better idea.. Colleges should require scores. Period. Oh wait, that used to be the case.. wonder when the idiots showed up and changed that.

The dumbing down of America.

As evidenced by your posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better idea.. Colleges should require scores. Period. Oh wait, that used to be the case.. wonder when the idiots showed up and changed that.

The dumbing down of America.

As evidenced by your posts.

Oh wow- you got me .