When is a classroom unsafe? How would you handle? Kindergarten DD scratched in face and kicked in back at recess

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The supports required are not funded. We have poorly funded legal requirements that do not serve most students and teachers well.

So go to the school board and your county/state reps and tell them to increase funding and/or reprioritize current educational spending. PTAs and teachers unions regularly lobby for spending, but they've been historically quiet on special education.

This is the way. PTAs and teachers unions have no power to change a federal law. The spending is one part of it. The other part is that parents should not be allowed to override placement decisions if a student has been violent or threatened violence-- and what reasonably constitutes "violence" should not be up to police or even school boards to decide. It should be decided by the people who spend 35 hours per week with the student and are actually subjected to the behaviors.

A law put into place without adequate funding is unlikely to have good outcomes. It sometimes feels like an underhanded effort by some politicians to demand more and more from public schools and then to underfund and overburden them to create unsustainable and untenable conditions. Thus creating demand for private institutions to step in when entities struggle.

Lots of examples with education, public transit, health care.
Get in early to buy stock in the private entities……

Schools were supposed to be educating students with special needs even before IDEA. Parents often just didn't have recourse when schools were failing their obligations.

Schools have no recourse with parents who aren't parenting and leaving it up to the school. "It's the school's problem" is the feeling of many. Parenting is a parent obligation. Schools can't do it all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The school is saying this student is dealing with anger management issues and that this is not the first classmate incident. They are monitoring the situation. Teacher profusely apologized and admitted she is struggling to retain control of the student. I have about a million emotions going at the same time.

I'm sorry that your daughter had to experience this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the heck is wrong with schools?! Is there some reason we can't open more for disciplinary issues? There's a lot of focus on special needs and also gifted kids, but what about the ones who are violent?

What is wrong with the parents sending a kid not ready to be in a social environment without intensive supervision? Maybe schools establish a base-level set of requirements around behavior….. fully potty trained, not aggressive towards others? Until parents reach that a child is in home-school or a private setting?

It seems unreasonable to demand that schools address this kind of behavior. The demand upon schools to raise children is just too much.

Because as a society we've moved beyond warehousing people with disabilities.

Stop bringing disabilities into this! We’re talking about kids who have had little to no discipline at home and don’t know how to behave. It is unfair to kids with disabilities to have them lumped in with this. DS’s friend with Down syndrome is the kindest, sweetest girl I’ve ever met.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The supports required are not funded. We have poorly funded legal requirements that do not serve most students and teachers well.

So go to the school board and your county/state reps and tell them to increase funding and/or reprioritize current educational spending. PTAs and teachers unions regularly lobby for spending, but they've been historically quiet on special education.

This is the way. PTAs and teachers unions have no power to change a federal law. The spending is one part of it. The other part is that parents should not be allowed to override placement decisions if a student has been violent or threatened violence-- and what reasonably constitutes "violence" should not be up to police or even school boards to decide. It should be decided by the people who spend 35 hours per week with the student and are actually subjected to the behaviors.

A law put into place without adequate funding is unlikely to have good outcomes. It sometimes feels like an underhanded effort by some politicians to demand more and more from public schools and then to underfund and overburden them to create unsustainable and untenable conditions. Thus creating demand for private institutions to step in when entities struggle.

Lots of examples with education, public transit, health care.
Get in early to buy stock in the private entities……

Schools were supposed to be educating students with special needs even before IDEA. Parents often just didn't have recourse when schools were failing their obligations.

Schools have no recourse with parents who aren't parenting and leaving it up to the school. "It's the school's problem" is the feeling of many. Parenting is a parent obligation. Schools can't do it all!

We're talking about school here, not parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the heck is wrong with schools?! Is there some reason we can't open more for disciplinary issues? There's a lot of focus on special needs and also gifted kids, but what about the ones who are violent?

What is wrong with the parents sending a kid not ready to be in a social environment without intensive supervision? Maybe schools establish a base-level set of requirements around behavior….. fully potty trained, not aggressive towards others? Until parents reach that a child is in home-school or a private setting?

It seems unreasonable to demand that schools address this kind of behavior. The demand upon schools to raise children is just too much.

Because as a society we've moved beyond warehousing people with disabilities.

Stop bringing disabilities into this! We’re talking about kids who have had little to no discipline at home and don’t know how to behave. It is unfair to kids with disabilities to have them lumped in with this. DS’s friend with Down syndrome is the kindest, sweetest girl I’ve ever met.

Others in this thread brought up IDEA and students with special needs, implying we should eliminate the obligation for public schools to provide appropriate education to students with disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Repeated violence in school should be considered a mental disability. Those with disabilities should be taught in a different school. Yes, including those that require so much accommodation that you are literally giving them the answers because of their learning disability. Yes, including the kid that is in 5th grade but globally on a kindergarten level. Yes, including the kid that eats pencils in the back of the classroom because they have an oral fixation. Yes, including the kid with extreme autism that they can’t sit still or stop making random noises. It’s ridiculous. School is a zoo at this point. We need to go back to when we had a class for high students. A class for on grade level and a class for special needs. But no, we have inclusion. Students that do not belong with the other population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Repeated violence in school should be considered a mental disability. Those with disabilities should be taught in a different school. Yes, including those that require so much accommodation that you are literally giving them the answers because of their learning disability. Yes, including the kid that is in 5th grade but globally on a kindergarten level. Yes, including the kid that eats pencils in the back of the classroom because they have an oral fixation. Yes, including the kid with extreme autism that they can’t sit still or stop making random noises. It’s ridiculous. School is a zoo at this point. We need to go back to when we had a class for high students. A class for on grade level and a class for special needs. But no, we have inclusion. Students that do not belong with the other population.

And this, folks, is why we have IDEA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Repeated violence in school should be considered a mental disability. Those with disabilities should be taught in a different school. Yes, including those that require so much accommodation that you are literally giving them the answers because of their learning disability. Yes, including the kid that is in 5th grade but globally on a kindergarten level. Yes, including the kid that eats pencils in the back of the classroom because they have an oral fixation. Yes, including the kid with extreme autism that they can’t sit still or stop making random noises. It’s ridiculous. School is a zoo at this point. We need to go back to when we had a class for high students. A class for on grade level and a class for special needs. But no, we have inclusion. Students that do not belong with the other population.

And different schools for the darkies? But equal, of course...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would behave the same way I would if my child was shopping with me in a store and was attacked by another child. I do not think that schools should be any different.

File a police report? Sue the kids’ parents? What would you do if you were shopping?

My dd was savagely bit on the cheek. Every tooth mark was visible, bleeding, bruised. I’d never seen a bite that looked like this before. It got infected even. Anyways, I was glad this was in a private preK. The kid got kicked out and his parents were working closely with him (he was not special needs). The following year in K when violent things happened, nothing happened.

Beat the aggressor within a inch of his life to protect my kid. So consider yourself lucky that only a police report is filed if this is done at school. NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The supports required are not funded. We have poorly funded legal requirements that do not serve most students and teachers well.

So go to the school board and your county/state reps and tell them to increase funding and/or reprioritize current educational spending. PTAs and teachers unions regularly lobby for spending, but they've been historically quiet on special education.

This is the way. PTAs and teachers unions have no power to change a federal law. The spending is one part of it. The other part is that parents should not be allowed to override placement decisions if a student has been violent or threatened violence-- and what reasonably constitutes "violence" should not be up to police or even school boards to decide. It should be decided by the people who spend 35 hours per week with the student and are actually subjected to the behaviors.

A law put into place without adequate funding is unlikely to have good outcomes. It sometimes feels like an underhanded effort by some politicians to demand more and more from public schools and then to underfund and overburden them to create unsustainable and untenable conditions. Thus creating demand for private institutions to step in when entities struggle.

Lots of examples with education, public transit, health care.
Get in early to buy stock in the private entities……

Schools were supposed to be educating students with special needs even before IDEA. Parents often just didn't have recourse when schools were failing their obligations.

Schools have no recourse with parents who aren't parenting and leaving it up to the school. "It's the school's problem" is the feeling of many. Parenting is a parent obligation. Schools can't do it all!

We're talking about school here, not parenting.

A lot of the problems seen in school today have everything to do with parenting. It's supposed to be a partnership!

[Anonymous]

I’ve known multiple people who have moved their kid to private for this same reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the progressive mantra is that all people are entitled to a mainstream education so those at the bottom behaviorally or intellectually can have good examples and be pulled up. The losers, of course, are the stable and focused kids.

My Republican friend, it is a law so progressive or not, you are supposed to follow it. I understand sometimes your party and its leaders choose not to follow laws, but most people don’t like jail.

I’m not a Republican. I’m also stating facts. Congratulations on the ad hominem attack. Did you have anything substantive to add? The fact this was codified into law was a result of the mantra. This does hurt certain populations, but because we feel they can suffer, we let it go.

No you are not. The FACT is more kids are born with autism than before. The FACT is the law was in place to help sped families of all varieties. The FACT is we have more violent kids who need a different kind of service and iDEA hasn’t kept up with the rising rates of emotional disorders or adhd or autism.
The FaCT is that the latest iteration of the law was revisited in 2004 as part of no child left behind- the one w started. It needs to be revised again, but claiming progressive thinking did it is NOT Factual.

There are no significant problems with the federal law, which simply says you have to provide an appropriate education to kids with disabilities, along with procedural safeguards so parents can protect the rights of their children.

The problem is that school districts aren't doing that.

The significant problem with the federal law is that it's not fully funded, or even majority funded in most cases, at the federal level. Expecting school districts to make up the difference is unfair to everyone.

I don't understand this. Why would it be better for the funds to come from federal tax dollars instead of state/local tax dollars? The money ultimately comes from the same place.

Realistically, Congress is a s#!t show, so it makes more sense to focus on local funding sources.

It should come from federal dollars because a federal law requires this AND because doing “too good” a job will quickly become cost prohibitive for a given district as everyone with disabilities moves to that district in a given region to get the better services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeated violence in school should be considered a mental disability. Those with disabilities should be taught in a different school. Yes, including those that require so much accommodation that you are literally giving them the answers because of their learning disability. Yes, including the kid that is in 5th grade but globally on a kindergarten level. Yes, including the kid that eats pencils in the back of the classroom because they have an oral fixation. Yes, including the kid with extreme autism that they can’t sit still or stop making random noises. It’s ridiculous. School is a zoo at this point. We need to go back to when we had a class for high students. A class for on grade level and a class for special needs. But no, we have inclusion. Students that do not belong with the other population.

And this, folks, is why we have IDEA.

So you’re okay with op’s dd getting beat up in class then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeated violence in school should be considered a mental disability. Those with disabilities should be taught in a different school. Yes, including those that require so much accommodation that you are literally giving them the answers because of their learning disability. Yes, including the kid that is in 5th grade but globally on a kindergarten level. Yes, including the kid that eats pencils in the back of the classroom because they have an oral fixation. Yes, including the kid with extreme autism that they can’t sit still or stop making random noises. It’s ridiculous. School is a zoo at this point. We need to go back to when we had a class for high students. A class for on grade level and a class for special needs. But no, we have inclusion. Students that do not belong with the other population.

And this, folks, is why we have IDEA.

So you’re okay with op’s dd getting beat up in class then?

You think those are the only two options? Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the progressive mantra is that all people are entitled to a mainstream education so those at the bottom behaviorally or intellectually can have good examples and be pulled up. The losers, of course, are the stable and focused kids.

My Republican friend, it is a law so progressive or not, you are supposed to follow it. I understand sometimes your party and its leaders choose not to follow laws, but most people don’t like jail.

I’m not a Republican. I’m also stating facts. Congratulations on the ad hominem attack. Did you have anything substantive to add? The fact this was codified into law was a result of the mantra. This does hurt certain populations, but because we feel they can suffer, we let it go.

No you are not. The FACT is more kids are born with autism than before. The FACT is the law was in place to help sped families of all varieties. The FACT is we have more violent kids who need a different kind of service and iDEA hasn’t kept up with the rising rates of emotional disorders or adhd or autism.
The FaCT is that the latest iteration of the law was revisited in 2004 as part of no child left behind- the one w started. It needs to be revised again, but claiming progressive thinking did it is NOT Factual.

There are no significant problems with the federal law, which simply says you have to provide an appropriate education to kids with disabilities, along with procedural safeguards so parents can protect the rights of their children.

The problem is that school districts aren't doing that.

The significant problem with the federal law is that it's not fully funded, or even majority funded in most cases, at the federal level. Expecting school districts to make up the difference is unfair to everyone.

I don't understand this. Why would it be better for the funds to come from federal tax dollars instead of state/local tax dollars? The money ultimately comes from the same place.

Realistically, Congress is a s#!t show, so it makes more sense to focus on local funding sources.

It should come from federal dollars because a federal law requires this AND because doing “too good” a job will quickly become cost prohibitive for a given district as everyone with disabilities moves to that district in a given region to get the better services.

By that logic, why isn't it necessary to fully fund all aspects of schools at the federal level? Or all public services?