States could take over college admissions to preserve race-neutrality

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:States could require the use of standardized testing and codify admissions criteria, including requiring transparency and annual certifications from school officials.

For example, a state could publish an admission grid, wherein applicants are placed into “bands” based on the combination of their standardized scores and grade point averages. They could then allow for other factors to be given a set amount of weight to adjust the ranking in each band based on extracurricular or individual accomplishments. This could be limited to, for example, a 10 or 15 percent step-up from the baseline score in ranking.

Offers of admission would then be based on the ranking, made on a rolling basis downward to fill available seats.

https://thehill.com/opinion/4098712-nuclear-option-have-states-take-over-college-admissions-to-preserve-race-neutrality/

It has never, ever, ever, ever, been either the goal or the mission of a university to fill classes like that. Ever. There is so much more to human knowledge than GPA + test score.

I'm very in favor of using IQ score

Why? My brother is the laziest MF on the planet and he has an IQ of 153. A spot at an elite school (and he graduated from a T10) is wasted on him. Far better to give it to someone with a lower IQ but more drive/grit.

+1000

That is exactly what Top schools are looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:States could require the use of standardized testing and codify admissions criteria, including requiring transparency and annual certifications from school officials.

For example, a state could publish an admission grid, wherein applicants are placed into “bands” based on the combination of their standardized scores and grade point averages. They could then allow for other factors to be given a set amount of weight to adjust the ranking in each band based on extracurricular or individual accomplishments. This could be limited to, for example, a 10 or 15 percent step-up from the baseline score in ranking.

Offers of admission would then be based on the ranking, made on a rolling basis downward to fill available seats.

https://thehill.com/opinion/4098712-nuclear-option-have-states-take-over-college-admissions-to-preserve-race-neutrality/

It has never, ever, ever, ever, been either the goal or the mission of a university to fill classes like that. Ever. There is so much more to human knowledge than GPA + test score.

I'm very in favor of using IQ score

Why? I know some very "smart/High IQ" who have no EQ and no common sense. Schools are looking for the entire package. And fact is, most have determined the SAT/ACT is not relevant to that package. Even for schools that are not TO, most only use test scores as a baseline---MIT just wants to ensure you have the baseline score---but a 750 vs 800 on MATh does not really matter (or whatever the lower number is). They still have tons of highly qualified candidates to choose from once they "look at the math score"---it is not the be all end all for admissions.

IQ + SAT + GPA sounds perfect

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:States could require the use of standardized testing and codify admissions criteria, including requiring transparency and annual certifications from school officials.

For example, a state could publish an admission grid, wherein applicants are placed into “bands” based on the combination of their standardized scores and grade point averages. They could then allow for other factors to be given a set amount of weight to adjust the ranking in each band based on extracurricular or individual accomplishments. This could be limited to, for example, a 10 or 15 percent step-up from the baseline score in ranking.

Offers of admission would then be based on the ranking, made on a rolling basis downward to fill available seats.

https://thehill.com/opinion/4098712-nuclear-option-have-states-take-over-college-admissions-to-preserve-race-neutrality/

So, more or less import the Chinese civil service examination policy, where your scores determine your position in life?

Sure. I guess we could do that.

Or the person could move to China if that is what they desire.

The arguments against this idea have so far been: 'Merica, love it or leave it! This idea is Marxist. And, black and brown children would suffer.

Clearly you are only reading 1/4 of the responses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The government bans private admissions standards and criteria and takes over the industry and imposes its own standards and criteria?

So, effectively, socialism in admissions? Why not do the same for private elementary, middle, and high schools while you're at it?

And now that you've opened the door to gov't-controlled admissions, it's pretty easy to standardize GPA by mandating the HS courses and curriculum that would count for GPA (both public and private). In fact, it wouldn't be much of a step at all to actually impose a single national test, like the AP test, for each approved subject, but designed by the government so it wouldn't expose students to uncomfortable facts about history and the like. In fact, you could remove history altogether as one of the approved subjects that counts for admission.

The proposal would effectively eliminate private schooling at all levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:State universities could choose this. But privates? Doubtful. Plus, do you really want the govt further involved in admissions?

Privates receive State and Federal funding.

Government can only provide any support to college that comply.

There are different kinds of funding and different scopes of government requirements that go with each kind. It's all in the contract. Accepting funding for one limited purpose does not place your entire organization or operation under the federal rubric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:States could require the use of standardized testing and codify admissions criteria, including requiring transparency and annual certifications from school officials.

For example, a state could publish an admission grid, wherein applicants are placed into “bands” based on the combination of their standardized scores and grade point averages. They could then allow for other factors to be given a set amount of weight to adjust the ranking in each band based on extracurricular or individual accomplishments. This could be limited to, for example, a 10 or 15 percent step-up from the baseline score in ranking.

Offers of admission would then be based on the ranking, made on a rolling basis downward to fill available seats.

https://thehill.com/opinion/4098712-nuclear-option-have-states-take-over-college-admissions-to-preserve-race-neutrality/

It has never, ever, ever, ever, been either the goal or the mission of a university to fill classes like that. Ever. There is so much more to human knowledge than GPA + test score.

I'm very in favor of using IQ score

The IQ tests do not account for disabilities that do no impact intelligence, but do impact IQ test taking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:States could require the use of standardized testing and codify admissions criteria, including requiring transparency and annual certifications from school officials.

For example, a state could publish an admission grid, wherein applicants are placed into “bands” based on the combination of their standardized scores and grade point averages. They could then allow for other factors to be given a set amount of weight to adjust the ranking in each band based on extracurricular or individual accomplishments. This could be limited to, for example, a 10 or 15 percent step-up from the baseline score in ranking.

Offers of admission would then be based on the ranking, made on a rolling basis downward to fill available seats.

https://thehill.com/opinion/4098712-nuclear-option-have-states-take-over-college-admissions-to-preserve-race-neutrality/

It has never, ever, ever, ever, been either the goal or the mission of a university to fill classes like that. Ever. There is so much more to human knowledge than GPA + test score.

I know! And that' what we need to change. What part of that didn't you get after 4 pages?

Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any female wanting this is stupid

Republican plans in states with super majority are going all in against women.

That means your daughters will not be admitted to college over a male. If you don’t think this is coming you have not read the court cases correctly.

Good luck ladies your daughters are on for a hell of a ride educationally and jobs you think moving forward companies won’t make it mandatory to hire a make over a female?

We have no protections … ERA was never passed civil rights going away.

Yep …, consequences of dumb Americans

Are you implying that girls are dumber and therefore don't stand a fair chance against boys? Quite the sexist, aren't you?

No, they are saying this plan essentially means the federal government gets to dictate who gets admitted where, so they can change the rules on a whim based on who is in office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:States could require the use of standardized testing and codify admissions criteria, including requiring transparency and annual certifications from school officials.

For example, a state could publish an admission grid, wherein applicants are placed into “bands” based on the combination of their standardized scores and grade point averages. They could then allow for other factors to be given a set amount of weight to adjust the ranking in each band based on extracurricular or individual accomplishments. This could be limited to, for example, a 10 or 15 percent step-up from the baseline score in ranking.

Offers of admission would then be based on the ranking, made on a rolling basis downward to fill available seats.

https://thehill.com/opinion/4098712-nuclear-option-have-states-take-over-college-admissions-to-preserve-race-neutrality/

This sounds fair especially since some colleges talked about going around the ruling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:States could require the use of standardized testing and codify admissions criteria, including requiring transparency and annual certifications from school officials.

For example, a state could publish an admission grid, wherein applicants are placed into “bands” based on the combination of their standardized scores and grade point averages. They could then allow for other factors to be given a set amount of weight to adjust the ranking in each band based on extracurricular or individual accomplishments. This could be limited to, for example, a 10 or 15 percent step-up from the baseline score in ranking.

Offers of admission would then be based on the ranking, made on a rolling basis downward to fill available seats.

https://thehill.com/opinion/4098712-nuclear-option-have-states-take-over-college-admissions-to-preserve-race-neutrality/

No.

GPA can be inflated. SAT can be gamed.

Plus, you might end up with a very un-diverse school community in terms of being able to field teams, or staff different clubs and activities.

[Anonymous]

Colleges are businesses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you begin to standardize GPAs?

My one kid goes to a DCPS high school where he is getting a 4.7 (4.0 unweighted) for pretty much breathing.
My other kid goes to NCS where she has done about 5 times the work of her brother for an unweighted 3.6 (and there is no weighting for honors or APs beyond this and limited APs even offered).

This is why the proposal is stupid. And you likewise cannot compare the SAT of a kid from Sidwell to a kid from DCPS who lives in poverty---you have to consider the advantages one kid has had all their life over the other and the lack of advantages and the life issues the one kid has had to overcome (most likelY).

DP. One problem, in my opinion, is college admission offices attempting to quantify these types of subjective determinations, i.e., assigning a number to things that are inherently not quantifiable. I don't have ideas for other ways to make admission decisions, though my suspicion is that these attempts at quantifying are more problematic than admission offices realize, in a GIGO sort of way.

Because schools are not looking for just a class of 1600/4.0/"perfect ECs and volunteering"---they are looking for the "IT" factor and for kids who are going to go out and change the world. The "go out and change the world" factor is a bit subjective because Harvard might be looking for something different than Stanford or Columbia, etc. Fact remains, the people complaining about all of this are still complaining about NOT getting admission to a school with single digit acceptance rates, where 95% of those who apply are "great candidates". Do the math----tons of highly qualified students will get rejected---it's part of the game of applying to highly rejective schools. Those kids will get into schools ranked slightly lower easily---plenty in the 25-50 range they will get into, sometime with excellent merit. So it's not Harvard or I'm attending my local CC (not that there is anything wrong with that path). People need to get over feeling entitled to attend elite universities.

It's about time universities started to look at grades and test scores more since it is a 'school' after all where learning various academic subjects take place and sports, money etc. should not be the primary purpose of these schools. The primary purpose of any colleges/universities should be about academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you begin to standardize GPAs?

My one kid goes to a DCPS high school where he is getting a 4.7 (4.0 unweighted) for pretty much breathing.
My other kid goes to NCS where she has done about 5 times the work of her brother for an unweighted 3.6 (and there is no weighting for honors or APs beyond this and limited APs even offered).

This is why the proposal is stupid. And you likewise cannot compare the SAT of a kid from Sidwell to a kid from DCPS who lives in poverty---you have to consider the advantages one kid has had all their life over the other and the lack of advantages and the life issues the one kid has had to overcome (most likelY).

DP. One problem, in my opinion, is college admission offices attempting to quantify these types of subjective determinations, i.e., assigning a number to things that are inherently not quantifiable. I don't have ideas for other ways to make admission decisions, though my suspicion is that these attempts at quantifying are more problematic than admission offices realize, in a GIGO sort of way.

Because schools are not looking for just a class of 1600/4.0/"perfect ECs and volunteering"---they are looking for the "IT" factor and for kids who are going to go out and change the world. The "go out and change the world" factor is a bit subjective because Harvard might be looking for something different than Stanford or Columbia, etc. Fact remains, the people complaining about all of this are still complaining about NOT getting admission to a school with single digit acceptance rates, where 95% of those who apply are "great candidates". Do the math----tons of highly qualified students will get rejected---it's part of the game of applying to highly rejective schools. Those kids will get into schools ranked slightly lower easily---plenty in the 25-50 range they will get into, sometime with excellent merit. So it's not Harvard or I'm attending my local CC (not that there is anything wrong with that path). People need to get over feeling entitled to attend elite universities.

It's about time universities started to look at grades and test scores more since it is a 'school' after all where learning various academic subjects take place and sports, money etc. should not be the primary purpose of these schools. The primary purpose of any colleges/universities should be about academics.

Schools want to create future leaders and most are very clear about it. The kid with perfect grades isn't better positioned than the athlete with good grades who was also student class president and editor of the year book

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you begin to standardize GPAs?

My one kid goes to a DCPS high school where he is getting a 4.7 (4.0 unweighted) for pretty much breathing.
My other kid goes to NCS where she has done about 5 times the work of her brother for an unweighted 3.6 (and there is no weighting for honors or APs beyond this and limited APs even offered).

This is why the proposal is stupid. And you likewise cannot compare the SAT of a kid from Sidwell to a kid from DCPS who lives in poverty---you have to consider the advantages one kid has had all their life over the other and the lack of advantages and the life issues the one kid has had to overcome (most likelY).

DP. One problem, in my opinion, is college admission offices attempting to quantify these types of subjective determinations, i.e., assigning a number to things that are inherently not quantifiable. I don't have ideas for other ways to make admission decisions, though my suspicion is that these attempts at quantifying are more problematic than admission offices realize, in a GIGO sort of way.

Because schools are not looking for just a class of 1600/4.0/"perfect ECs and volunteering"---they are looking for the "IT" factor and for kids who are going to go out and change the world. The "go out and change the world" factor is a bit subjective because Harvard might be looking for something different than Stanford or Columbia, etc. Fact remains, the people complaining about all of this are still complaining about NOT getting admission to a school with single digit acceptance rates, where 95% of those who apply are "great candidates". Do the math----tons of highly qualified students will get rejected---it's part of the game of applying to highly rejective schools. Those kids will get into schools ranked slightly lower easily---plenty in the 25-50 range they will get into, sometime with excellent merit. So it's not Harvard or I'm attending my local CC (not that there is anything wrong with that path). People need to get over feeling entitled to attend elite universities.

It's about time universities started to look at grades and test scores more since it is a 'school' after all where learning various academic subjects take place and sports, money etc. should not be the primary purpose of these schools. The primary purpose of any colleges/universities should be about academics.

That is like saying Michelin starred restaurants should be entirely focused on my health and not their cash flow / ability to stay in business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ll pass on the admissions police. Just accept that the process is imperfect and deal with it - I know some of you don’t want to hear this but admissions decisions do not define your child.

+1

A kid who has the "resume for T25 lottery ticket" can easily get into plenty of excellent schools in the 30-60 range. Adjust your mindset from "Harvard or bust" to, it's a lottery pick a few in the T25 you would like to attend and apply, but focus your real applications on your targets and safeties and find ones you really like and can afford. If you do that, you will not be disappointed. My 1480/3.95UW/10AP kid got into all of the engineering programs they applied to except those in the T25/30. Many excellent choices, most with great merit awards. It went exactly as we expected, sure diappointment for not getting into the reaches, but they are reaches for a reason.