States could take over college admissions to preserve race-neutrality

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:States could require the use of standardized testing and codify admissions criteria, including requiring transparency and annual certifications from school officials.

For example, a state could publish an admission grid, wherein applicants are placed into “bands” based on the combination of their standardized scores and grade point averages. They could then allow for other factors to be given a set amount of weight to adjust the ranking in each band based on extracurricular or individual accomplishments. This could be limited to, for example, a 10 or 15 percent step-up from the baseline score in ranking.

Offers of admission would then be based on the ranking, made on a rolling basis downward to fill available seats.

https://thehill.com/opinion/4098712-nuclear-option-have-states-take-over-college-admissions-to-preserve-race-neutrality/

So, more or less import the Chinese civil service examination policy, where your scores determine your position in life?

Sure. I guess we could do that.

Are you one of those people who think the American way is always the best way? We need to stop being so arrogant and consider that other countries may actually (gasp!) have something to teach us.

But, I guess if you're privileged and the current system is set up to pass privilege from parent to child, then everything works fine, right?

Hey, I said we could certainly try that.

Tell me, why would comparing it to the Chinese civil service exam be taken as an automatic negative by you, hmm? What's up with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like some people just want to ban black and brown students from ever attending college (as was the case in the past). That would solve all these issues.

Not at all. Black and brown children are just as smart as white children. The problem is that rather than educating them, school systems are 'gaming' the system by handing out diplomas, and declaring success. That allows substandard schools to continue year after year.

If we had a standardized school leaving exam, failing schools would be exposed. The problem would be very embarrassing to many people, which is the real reason this idea will never happen. Although like you, they will claim to be trying to help black and brown children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you begin to standardize GPAs?

My one kid goes to a DCPS high school where he is getting a 4.7 (4.0 unweighted) for pretty much breathing.
My other kid goes to NCS where she has done about 5 times the work of her brother for an unweighted 3.6 (and there is no weighting for honors or APs beyond this and limited APs even offered).

+1. We see similar differences between my kids' high schools (kid A had 3.4uw/1500, kid B 4.0uw/1550). Moreover, even kids in the same high school take different courses and teachers. It is simply not possible to standardize GPAs, even though most in this forum and the entire college admissions world treat GPA as though it were a standardized metric. Lots of song and dance about considering kid's transcript in the context of the high school, and how well the AOs supposedly know each school, but it just isn't true to the extent people think. Ultimately, GPA is not objective. It's fuzzy.

Even within the same school, there are differences. My kid's high school has two different sections of APUSH, different teachers. The class average for one was 85; for the other, 91. I hear that the different physics teachers have significantly different class averages too. So, even comparing students within the context of their schools doesn't tell the full story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like some people just want to ban black and brown students from ever attending college (as was the case in the past). That would solve all these issues.

Not at all. Black and brown children are just as smart as white children. The problem is that rather than educating them, school systems are 'gaming' the system by handing out diplomas, and declaring success. That allows substandard schools to continue year after year.

If we had a standardized school leaving exam, failing schools would be exposed. The problem would be very embarrassing to many people, which is the real reason this idea will never happen. Although like you, they will claim to be trying to help black and brown children.

Try again. I never claimed I tried to help black and brown kids.

[Anonymous]

That system stupidly presumes there is a real hierarchy of 'seats' in colleges that everyone agrees with, without regard to major, location, size of school, available ECs, etc. etc. etc., and the myriad other things real students care about when choosing a college.

Completely useless idea.

[Anonymous]

I guess I have to rephrase what I said earlier so somebody isn’t so easily offended by the truth and reports me.

The assumption is that the states can somehow come up with a “standardized test” that is not unfair, not unbiased, and not any subject to manipulation (meaning rich folks with means can prep for it) than what’s already out there. And that’s a big assumption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That system stupidly presumes there is a real hierarchy of 'seats' in colleges that everyone agrees with, without regard to major, location, size of school, available ECs, etc. etc. etc., and the myriad other things real students care about when choosing a college.

Completely useless idea.

You do realize that what OP proposes is a framework, right? You can't have a fully fleshed out plan in a single article. If the concept is good, the details will follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like some people just want to ban black and brown students from ever attending college (as was the case in the past). That would solve all these issues.

Wut? Are you implying that Black and Brown students are incapable of a high GPA or test score? You want to be their "patron saint" just so you can feel good? Your racism shows!

Talk is cheap. They need to show their true capabilities. That will shut people down! Bring it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:States could require the use of standardized testing and codify admissions criteria, including requiring transparency and annual certifications from school officials.

For example, a state could publish an admission grid, wherein applicants are placed into “bands” based on the combination of their standardized scores and grade point averages. They could then allow for other factors to be given a set amount of weight to adjust the ranking in each band based on extracurricular or individual accomplishments. This could be limited to, for example, a 10 or 15 percent step-up from the baseline score in ranking.

Offers of admission would then be based on the ranking, made on a rolling basis downward to fill available seats.

https://thehill.com/opinion/4098712-nuclear-option-have-states-take-over-college-admissions-to-preserve-race-neutrality/

So, more or less import the Chinese civil service examination policy, where your scores determine your position in life?

Sure. I guess we could do that.

Are you one of those people who think the American way is always the best way? We need to stop being so arrogant and consider that other countries may actually (gasp!) have something to teach us.

But, I guess if you're privileged and the current system is set up to pass privilege from parent to child, then everything works fine, right?

Is the post-college outcome for our kids so terrible that the whole system needs to change? This is all driven by the "Harvard or bust" crowd who seem to think their kids are a failure if they don't attend a Top 5 school. The whole premise is flawed. It is as if they don't even realize they are surrounded by professionals who attended hundreds of different colleges and universities. There are many paths to success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That system stupidly presumes there is a real hierarchy of 'seats' in colleges that everyone agrees with, without regard to major, location, size of school, available ECs, etc. etc. etc., and the myriad other things real students care about when choosing a college.

Completely useless idea.

You do realize that what OP proposes is a framework, right? You can't have a fully fleshed out plan in a single article. If the concept is good, the details will follow.

The concept is ridiculous and the premise flawed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:State universities could choose this. But privates? Doubtful. Plus, do you really want the govt further involved in admissions?

Interesting position for conservatives to take.

[Anonymous]

Meh. I would prefer the government take over health care than this. I guess you think government does solve all problems.

[Anonymous]

LOL. “I propose we destroy the multi-billion dollar industry of college football. Surely the conservative lawmakers and residents of Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and Texas will adopt this plan!”

[Anonymous]

OP is quite the Marxist.

[Anonymous]

This is the critical flaw in the article:

"Offers of admission would then be based on the ranking, made on a rolling basis downward to fill available seats."

It presumes some seats are upward and some are downward. This is false.