SAT Scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Other than at MIT, scores don’t matter anymore, OP.

But APs will. Have a 4.7GPA, no APs and no test scores, and no top school, let alone engineering is admitting your kid. Test optional with a GPA that does not match the rigor (no APs) indicates a low test score. Fact is majority of kids at those schools in engineering with have a near perfect math score (770+) and at least a 1450+ overall. Most will have taken AP Calc AB, Physics C, AP CS, etc. For a kid with learning issues, you really do not want to put them in an environment where everyone in their major is "ahead of them" (with APs/college rigor in HS)---it's not a good plan.

IMO, you should look at smaller school. If willing to leave the DCUM area, WPI is a great school. 5-6K undergrads, Test BLIND (they do not accept/look at any tests--they found it's not a good indicator), good advising/support, avg UW gpa is 3.9 though, which I suspect your DD is near.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing about super high SAT scores. When I was in school in the late 90s a food score was over 1200 and anything over 1400 was very high. Now it seems like 1200 is typical. I had a 3.2 unweighted GPA (40th percentile of class), no APs, and a 1240 SAT score and I got easily into every school I applied and offered merit scholarships at some of them. I only applied where I thought I’d get in. The programs were equal to VA Tech, where I was accepted for Mechanical Engineering but went to another school.

My daughter is a sophomore and has a 4.7 weighted GPA (4.0 unweighted), no APs, hasn’t taken the SAT yet. I feel like she’s far better positioned than I was, but realize it’s harder right now to get into many programs. What score would she need to get into UMCP or VA Tech for engineering?

She's not getting into either of those schools for engineering with no APs.

She’s a sophomore. With a 4.7 weighted, surely she’s on track for APs.

She is pretty significantly learning disabled. APs are unsupported classes so she opts to not take them. Her GPA is higher than most kids who are in them. She works very hard. Lots of extracurricular activities.

Engineering is likely not a good fit as a major, and especially not at a large state flagship.

I have a degree in computer science and have worked with engineers as my user base and coworkers for most of my career. She’s very well suited to it. She’s also going to be taking a 2 year part-time engineering program through MCPS her junior and senior year and took Engineering already in high school and was regularly asked by her teacher to help other students. I know what is good for her. I am not asking if that’s a good choice of career. I am only asking about SAT scores. You should know that many many engineers are learning disabled.

She isn’t getting into top engineering schools without AP classes.

VATech is not a top tier school.

For engineering in VA it is, maybe not the rest of the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you should look on this thread instead for recs of schools she could have a realistic shot at: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1132987.page

Thank you for being actually helpful.

She’s interested in RPI and it’s on that thread.

Look at WPI as well----we liked it so much better than RPI for so many reasons

[Anonymous]

OP look at the “engineering safeties” thread. Consider CUA, UMBC, GMU, ODU among many others.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DS from NOVA had 1560 (800 math). This admissions cycle waitlisted at UVA and NEU. SAT doesn't have near the impact as we would have hoped.

This is where studying the schools common data set can offer some guidance. For example, UVA considers test scores but academic rigor is very important. They also like to see students take 4 years of a foreign language. So someone, with a high GPA, taking a dozen APs, with 4 years of Latin and a 1450 ranks better than someone with 5APs, 2 years of French and a 1560 at UVA. Their call. Don't be surprised if they offer you admission to UVA-Wise with guaranteed movement to main campus after 30 or 60 credits

Wise? No thank you. He'll stick with the Boston U. acceptance.

Crazy. UVA instate is literally half the price & you’d rather him go to Boston U all four years than spend a year at Wise.

Speaking out of your a$$. After merit, BU is $7k more per year than UVA. Thank you for your concern.

+1. Even if you were full pay, it's your choice (if you can afford it). BU puts you in a great city with tons of opportunities for the future (just know your kid is likely not returning to DCLand---most stay in Boston for good reason)

[Anonymous]

Haven't read all of the responses so this has perhaps been said (sorry).

Far, far more kids take the SAT today than they did back in our day. So in the past, 98th percentile was in the top 2 percent of a pretty elite group of kids who chose to take the SAT.

Now, a huge majority of kids take the test given that it is offered free in school, etc. (all good things imho), but it means that 98th percentile is top 2% of the general population.

(So even the percentiles are difficult to compare across time.)

[Anonymous]

I was a pretty average student myself and agree that I had my pick of schools. But times have changed. I have a current freshman (LD and another disability) at UMCP who took 7 APs, had a 4.7 weighted GPA and a 1480 SAT. He was accepted straight into his major for fall (not engineering) but he had many friends with similar stats who weren’t accepted even into freshman connection. It gets more competitive each year. We don’t know of anybody who was accepted to engineering who didn’t have a 1500+ gpa and tons of AP classes. Engineering is notoriously hard everywhere. It’s the reason my son decided at the last minute to abandon his plans to study it and do something else.

If your child wants a shot at UMCP engineering, aim for a 1500 SAT and add some APs, especially cal and physics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a pretty average student myself and agree that I had my pick of schools. But times have changed. I have a current freshman (LD and another disability) at UMCP who took 7 APs, had a 4.7 weighted GPA and a 1480 SAT. He was accepted straight into his major for fall (not engineering) but he had many friends with similar stats who weren’t accepted even into freshman connection. It gets more competitive each year. We don’t know of anybody who was accepted to engineering who didn’t have a 1500+ gpa and tons of AP classes. Engineering is notoriously hard everywhere. It’s the reason my son decided at the last minute to abandon his plans to study it and do something else.

If your child wants a shot at UMCP engineering, aim for a 1500 SAT and add some APs, especially cal and physics.

That should have said 1500+ SAT. Also should add I don’t know exact GPAs of most kids but these tended to be kids with reputations for earning straight As.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the thing with holistic admission, you need to find a way to highlight your child’s gifts. You make an excellent point about engineers and learning differences.

My kids are humanities kids, but what I am observing is that being pointy makes a huge difference at competitive schools. Your DD sounds unusual, lean into that on the applications. Can she sit for the tests even if she doesn’t take the AP yclass? That is what a lot of private school kids do.

Also, focus on school fit. There are many engineering programs. And have her meet with the admissions reps from the schools she is interested in.

Good luck.

Thank you! Yes, we plan to write a great college essay. Editing of essays like that is actually one of my personal best skill sets, and it’s so rarely something I can use! She will be in a CTE program next year that I think will help differentiate her.

I’ve been encouraging her for years to think about how her differences make her unique. Not just for college but in general. I appreciate your supportive post.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing about super high SAT scores. When I was in school in the late 90s a food score was over 1200 and anything over 1400 was very high. Now it seems like 1200 is typical. I had a 3.2 unweighted GPA (40th percentile of class), no APs, and a 1240 SAT score and I got easily into every school I applied and offered merit scholarships at some of them. I only applied where I thought I’d get in. The programs were equal to VA Tech, where I was accepted for Mechanical Engineering but went to another school.

My daughter is a sophomore and has a 4.7 weighted GPA (4.0 unweighted), no APs, hasn’t taken the SAT yet. I feel like she’s far better positioned than I was, but realize it’s harder right now to get into many programs. What score would she need to get into UMCP or VA Tech for engineering?

She's not getting into either of those schools for engineering with no APs.

She’s a sophomore. With a 4.7 weighted, surely she’s on track for APs.

She is pretty significantly learning disabled. APs are unsupported classes so she opts to not take them. Her GPA is higher than most kids who are in them. She works very hard. Lots of extracurricular activities.

That's all great. But reality is, most schools in the T40-50 expect students to be taking APs if available. And I'd argue, if she needs support to be in those classes (and that is fine! I have a kid with learning issues, I get it), then engineering at those schools may not be right fit for her. Look for a smaller school where the classes will be smaller, there will be more "help" and they will support her disabilities with accommodations, so she an succeed

Since you don’t know her disabilities, you’re making a lot of assumptions about her capabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the thing with holistic admission, you need to find a way to highlight your child’s gifts. You make an excellent point about engineers and learning differences.

My kids are humanities kids, but what I am observing is that being pointy makes a huge difference at competitive schools. Your DD sounds unusual, lean into that on the applications. Can she sit for the tests even if she doesn’t take the AP yclass? That is what a lot of private school kids do.

Also, focus on school fit. There are many engineering programs. And have her meet with the admissions reps from the schools she is interested in.

Good luck.

Thank you! Yes, we plan to write a great college essay. Editing of essays like that is actually one of my personal best skill sets, and it’s so rarely something I can use! She will be in a CTE program next year that I think will help differentiate her.

I’ve been encouraging her for years to think about how her differences make her unique. Not just for college but in general. I appreciate your supportive post.

How do you think she will manage in college with her disability? If she decides to go to a large flagship like UMD, how will she manage the workload and the rigor of being an engineering major?

Large flagships are a sink or swim. Are you going to have her stick to smaller universities where there is more support?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing about super high SAT scores. When I was in school in the late 90s a food score was over 1200 and anything over 1400 was very high. Now it seems like 1200 is typical. I had a 3.2 unweighted GPA (40th percentile of class), no APs, and a 1240 SAT score and I got easily into every school I applied and offered merit scholarships at some of them. I only applied where I thought I’d get in. The programs were equal to VA Tech, where I was accepted for Mechanical Engineering but went to another school.

My daughter is a sophomore and has a 4.7 weighted GPA (4.0 unweighted), no APs, hasn’t taken the SAT yet. I feel like she’s far better positioned than I was, but realize it’s harder right now to get into many programs. What score would she need to get into UMCP or VA Tech for engineering?

Those schools want to see, if your school offers them, at least AP Calc BC (preferably post AP math), AP Physics C & AP Chem by 12th grade at minimum for direct admit to engineering.

Most kids getting into engineering for freshman year at VT or UMCP nowadays have 1500+ SAt, those courses at absolute minimum and “most rigorous courseload” designation from their high school counselor.

How is that possible? How many kids are getting over 1500 on their SAT?

They are prepping hard

And why shouldn’t they? Kids “prep hard” for sports, too.

Because doing perfectly on it isn't that much more telling than doing well enough on it. At the end of the day it's a test on math up to HS geometry and intro college level verbal skills--doing perfectly as opposed to a 1450 tells more about your testtaking skills than your intelligence (though getting above a certain threshold is a reasonable metric of intelligence/aptitude). Spending your time prepping to move a 1400 to a 1500 or a 1500 to a 1600 may no longer be the best use of time for elite college admissions. Schools set a threshold to be met and then look at other things for evidence of excellence. Prepping hard for sports builds a body in a culturally valued enterprise. Same for mathematics, science, art or writing competitions. Prepping hard for an SAT test is aiming for the measure rather than the valued enterprise itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the thing with holistic admission, you need to find a way to highlight your child’s gifts. You make an excellent point about engineers and learning differences.

My kids are humanities kids, but what I am observing is that being pointy makes a huge difference at competitive schools. Your DD sounds unusual, lean into that on the applications. Can she sit for the tests even if she doesn’t take the AP yclass? That is what a lot of private school kids do.

Also, focus on school fit. There are many engineering programs. And have her meet with the admissions reps from the schools she is interested in.

Good luck.

Thank you! Yes, we plan to write a great college essay. Editing of essays like that is actually one of my personal best skill sets, and it’s so rarely something I can use! She will be in a CTE program next year that I think will help differentiate her.

I’ve been encouraging her for years to think about how her differences make her unique. Not just for college but in general. I appreciate your supportive post.

How do you think she will manage in college with her disability? If she decides to go to a large flagship like UMD, how will she manage the workload and the rigor of being an engineering major?

Large flagships are a sink or swim. Are you going to have her stick to smaller universities where there is more support?

I can’t answer that except that I know her. I also know what curriculum she will take and how it plays to her strengths.

Her SpEds are in no way concerned either.

Consider the idea that a child with severe LDs manages to excel the way she does. Advocates for herself. Organizes their workload. Holds multiple jobs outside of school. Is involved in several extracurricular activities.

If you think about how hard it is to do those things when a child is not LD, the amount of discipline and effort it takes to do it with them is pretty solid. I don’t tell her to do homework. Ever. She doesn’t have to be forced to go to school. She loves to learn. She knows how to THINK. There is a documentary where Charles Schwab, who is LD, explains that LDs make learning hard, but thinking is what matters more as you move forward in life. She is an excellent thinker with a far above average work ethic. She will do what she sets out to do because that’s who she is as a person. That can’t be taught.

The issue is what can be measured by an admissions officer. Maybe some of these schools won’t get that. Maybe some will get that. Wherever she goes, her qualities will get her where she needs to go. I’ve seen more people from high level programs stall and from low level programs succeed than I can count. I have no concern she won’t be an Engineer, unless she decides she doesn’t want to be one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the thing with holistic admission, you need to find a way to highlight your child’s gifts. You make an excellent point about engineers and learning differences.

My kids are humanities kids, but what I am observing is that being pointy makes a huge difference at competitive schools. Your DD sounds unusual, lean into that on the applications. Can she sit for the tests even if she doesn’t take the AP yclass? That is what a lot of private school kids do.

Also, focus on school fit. There are many engineering programs. And have her meet with the admissions reps from the schools she is interested in.

Good luck.

Thank you! Yes, we plan to write a great college essay. Editing of essays like that is actually one of my personal best skill sets, and it’s so rarely something I can use! She will be in a CTE program next year that I think will help differentiate her.

I’ve been encouraging her for years to think about how her differences make her unique. Not just for college but in general. I appreciate your supportive post.

NP. Since someone else will bring it up, avoid the use of "we" in your first sentence here. Also, please understand that college essays are in their own special genre. Avoid overediting. Spend more energy upfront helping her to come up with an essay topic (identify one or two personal qualities to communicate and a narrative context that shows them) and then let her voice shine through. Suggest rearranging structure as needed, and minor grammatical fixes, but avoid actually writing any of it. Her voice is crucial and very easy to lose with what we, as adults, would desire to edit.

Generally, I like the advice in this pdf: https://www.hackthecollegeessay.com/uploads/1/0/9/5/109505679/hack_the_college_essay_2017.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the thing with holistic admission, you need to find a way to highlight your child’s gifts. You make an excellent point about engineers and learning differences.

My kids are humanities kids, but what I am observing is that being pointy makes a huge difference at competitive schools. Your DD sounds unusual, lean into that on the applications. Can she sit for the tests even if she doesn’t take the AP yclass? That is what a lot of private school kids do.

Also, focus on school fit. There are many engineering programs. And have her meet with the admissions reps from the schools she is interested in.

Good luck.

Thank you! Yes, we plan to write a great college essay. Editing of essays like that is actually one of my personal best skill sets, and it’s so rarely something I can use! She will be in a CTE program next year that I think will help differentiate her.

I’ve been encouraging her for years to think about how her differences make her unique. Not just for college but in general. I appreciate your supportive post.

NP. Since someone else will bring it up, avoid the use of "we" in your first sentence here. Also, please understand that college essays are in their own special genre. Avoid overediting. Spend more energy upfront helping her to come up with an essay topic (identify one or two personal qualities to communicate and a narrative context that shows them) and then let her voice shine through. Suggest rearranging structure as needed, and minor grammatical fixes, but avoid actually writing any of it. Her voice is crucial and very easy to lose with what we, as adults, would desire to edit.

Generally, I like the advice in this pdf: https://www.hackthecollegeessay.com/uploads/1/0/9/5/109505679/hack_the_college_essay_2017.pdf

Thanks. I get it….but really, I am good at it because I know how to lightly touch and guide rather than write in place. I’m a good editor. But I’m not going to write it for her.