SAT Scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing about super high SAT scores. When I was in school in the late 90s a food score was over 1200 and anything over 1400 was very high. Now it seems like 1200 is typical. I had a 3.2 unweighted GPA (40th percentile of class), no APs, and a 1240 SAT score and I got easily into every school I applied and offered merit scholarships at some of them. I only applied where I thought I’d get in. The programs were equal to VA Tech, where I was accepted for Mechanical Engineering but went to another school.

My daughter is a sophomore and has a 4.7 weighted GPA (4.0 unweighted), no APs, hasn’t taken the SAT yet. I feel like she’s far better positioned than I was, but realize it’s harder right now to get into many programs. What score would she need to get into UMCP or VA Tech for engineering?

Those schools want to see, if your school offers them, at least AP Calc BC (preferably post AP math), AP Physics C & AP Chem by 12th grade at minimum for direct admit to engineering.

Most kids getting into engineering for freshman year at VT or UMCP nowadays have 1500+ SAt, those courses at absolute minimum and “most rigorous courseload” designation from their high school counselor.

How is that possible? How many kids are getting over 1500 on their SAT?

They are prepping hard

And taking it multiple times to superscore. According to latest Common App report, 76,000+ students applied to college with SAT scores greater than 1500.

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/ca.research.publish/Research_Briefs_2022/2022_12_09_Apps_Per_Applicant_ResearchBrief.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing about super high SAT scores. When I was in school in the late 90s a food score was over 1200 and anything over 1400 was very high. Now it seems like 1200 is typical. I had a 3.2 unweighted GPA (40th percentile of class), no APs, and a 1240 SAT score and I got easily into every school I applied and offered merit scholarships at some of them. I only applied where I thought I’d get in. The programs were equal to VA Tech, where I was accepted for Mechanical Engineering but went to another school.

My daughter is a sophomore and has a 4.7 weighted GPA (4.0 unweighted), no APs, hasn’t taken the SAT yet. I feel like she’s far better positioned than I was, but realize it’s harder right now to get into many programs. What score would she need to get into UMCP or VA Tech for engineering?

Those schools want to see, if your school offers them, at least AP Calc BC (preferably post AP math), AP Physics C & AP Chem by 12th grade at minimum for direct admit to engineering.

Most kids getting into engineering for freshman year at VT or UMCP nowadays have 1500+ SAt, those courses at absolute minimum and “most rigorous courseload” designation from their high school counselor.

How is that possible? How many kids are getting over 1500 on their SAT?

They are prepping hard

And why shouldn’t they? Kids “prep hard” for sports, too.

[Anonymous]

Looks like no test scores reported for 52% of applicants. More than half of the applicants are test optional now?

[Anonymous]

They are prepping hard. And taking it multiple times to superscore. According to latest Common App report, 76,000+ students applied to college with SAT scores greater than 1500.

This is exactly why the importance of a high SAT score is declining. It still has value when considered, which it still is at most schools, but it's not enough to get anyone admitted.

[Anonymous]

Here is the thing with holistic admission, you need to find a way to highlight your child’s gifts. You make an excellent point about engineers and learning differences.

My kids are humanities kids, but what I am observing is that being pointy makes a huge difference at competitive schools. Your DD sounds unusual, lean into that on the applications. Can she sit for the tests even if she doesn’t take the AP yclass? That is what a lot of private school kids do.

Also, focus on school fit. There are many engineering programs. And have her meet with the admissions reps from the schools she is interested in.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looks like no test scores reported for 52% of applicants. More than half of the applicants are test optional now?

The Common App report for the 2022-2023 application cycle reports the same trend. And 60% of women went TO compared to 52% of men. Even 52% of kids from high income families are taking advantage of TO according to the data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing about super high SAT scores. When I was in school in the late 90s a food score was over 1200 and anything over 1400 was very high. Now it seems like 1200 is typical. I had a 3.2 unweighted GPA (40th percentile of class), no APs, and a 1240 SAT score and I got easily into every school I applied and offered merit scholarships at some of them. I only applied where I thought I’d get in. The programs were equal to VA Tech, where I was accepted for Mechanical Engineering but went to another school.

My daughter is a sophomore and has a 4.7 weighted GPA (4.0 unweighted), no APs, hasn’t taken the SAT yet. I feel like she’s far better positioned than I was, but realize it’s harder right now to get into many programs. What score would she need to get into UMCP or VA Tech for engineering?

Those schools want to see, if your school offers them, at least AP Calc BC (preferably post AP math), AP Physics C & AP Chem by 12th grade at minimum for direct admit to engineering.

Most kids getting into engineering for freshman year at VT or UMCP nowadays have 1500+ SAt, those courses at absolute minimum and “most rigorous courseload” designation from their high school counselor.

How is that possible? How many kids are getting over 1500 on their SAT?

They are prepping hard

some are just taking a few practice tests for free.

Yeah... right.

Heavy prepping and tutoring. That's how the entire test preparation industry sustains itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing about super high SAT scores. When I was in school in the late 90s a food score was over 1200 and anything over 1400 was very high. Now it seems like 1200 is typical. I had a 3.2 unweighted GPA (40th percentile of class), no APs, and a 1240 SAT score and I got easily into every school I applied and offered merit scholarships at some of them. I only applied where I thought I’d get in. The programs were equal to VA Tech, where I was accepted for Mechanical Engineering but went to another school.

My daughter is a sophomore and has a 4.7 weighted GPA (4.0 unweighted), no APs, hasn’t taken the SAT yet. I feel like she’s far better positioned than I was, but realize it’s harder right now to get into many programs. What score would she need to get into UMCP or VA Tech for engineering?

Those schools want to see, if your school offers them, at least AP Calc BC (preferably post AP math), AP Physics C & AP Chem by 12th grade at minimum for direct admit to engineering.

Most kids getting into engineering for freshman year at VT or UMCP nowadays have 1500+ SAt, those courses at absolute minimum and “most rigorous courseload” designation from their high school counselor.

How is that possible? How many kids are getting over 1500 on their SAT?

They are prepping hard

some are just taking a few practice tests for free.

Yeah... right.

Heavy prepping and tutoring. That's how the entire test preparation industry sustains itself.

? my DS and his friends took the free practice exams. That was it. As I stated, *some* are just taking a few practice tests for free.

I have never paid for prepping/tutoring classes for my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They have renormed scores. My student had a 1490, which include a near perfect verbal score. That was 98th percentile and not even in the ballpark for top 10 schools.

+1

1200 then is the new 1400+ If you got a 1400 then, it's the new 1550+

As well, we only took the test once, we didn't really study, we just showed up on a Sat morning with #2 pencils and took at test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing about super high SAT scores. When I was in school in the late 90s a food score was over 1200 and anything over 1400 was very high. Now it seems like 1200 is typical. I had a 3.2 unweighted GPA (40th percentile of class), no APs, and a 1240 SAT score and I got easily into every school I applied and offered merit scholarships at some of them. I only applied where I thought I’d get in. The programs were equal to VA Tech, where I was accepted for Mechanical Engineering but went to another school.

My daughter is a sophomore and has a 4.7 weighted GPA (4.0 unweighted), no APs, hasn’t taken the SAT yet. I feel like she’s far better positioned than I was, but realize it’s harder right now to get into many programs. What score would she need to get into UMCP or VA Tech for engineering?

She's not getting into either of those schools for engineering with no APs.

She’s a sophomore. With a 4.7 weighted, surely she’s on track for APs.

She is pretty significantly learning disabled. APs are unsupported classes so she opts to not take them. Her GPA is higher than most kids who are in them. She works very hard. Lots of extracurricular activities.

Engineering is likely not a good fit as a major, and especially not at a large state flagship.

I have a degree in computer science and have worked with engineers as my user base and coworkers for most of my career. She’s very well suited to it. She’s also going to be taking a 2 year part-time engineering program through MCPS her junior and senior year and took Engineering already in high school and was regularly asked by her teacher to help other students. I know what is good for her. I am not asking if that’s a good choice of career. I am only asking about SAT scores. You should know that many many engineers are learning disabled.

She isn’t getting into top engineering schools without AP classes.

VATech is not a top tier school.

It’s ranked 16th in the country for undergraduate engineering. So in that discipline, it is.

It’s a good school, but no one considers it when you say “Top School”. Again. I worked 20 years in this field. UMCP maybe. Not VA Tech. It’s a great program and very well respected but it’s not top tier.

Point is that it’s selective & you need STEM AP classes with As to get in.

Well, she will apply and I’ll just tell her not to get her hopes up. I had thought VATech may be easier to get in than UMCP but knew it would be more difficult than some other schools she’s interested in applying. She wants to apply to GATech and I think that’s just not a realistic possibility but she wants to anyway. I’m hoping the engineering program will help since she will be able to show aptitude in the field in a way that APs don’t measure. She probably prefers JMU or RPI anyway, so maybe it doesn’t matter.

My magnet DS with a 1580 sat score (800 on math), 5s on AP BC Calc, AP physics, highest level math courses (MVC), straight As, 4.0 unwgpa, 4.8 wgpa (at time of application) was rejected from GATech.

Maybe being a girl will give her a bump but without AP courses/exams, being female isn't even a speed bump sized bumped.

Unfortunately, oos to top tier publics for engineering is really really hard to get into. You might as well try for privates like Harvey Mudd, CMU at that point. The admit rate is about the same.

Without the most rigorous coursework, she should look into lower tiered universities. You mentioned RPI, and that's a good one. Stick to that thread. It lists some really good lowered tiered eng schools.

In what you bolded I already stated that I didn’t think that was a reasonable application so I’m not sure why you wanted to drill home the point I had already made myself.

Because you "think* it's not a possibility, but she is going to try. I'm just giving you an example of a profile that was rejected.

Your kid is not planning to take any AP classes or exams, but you are asking about SAT scores. As others have stated, SAT is test optional at so many colleges now, but those colleges still want to see that a student took the most rigorous courses available. And if your HS offers AP classes, and your kid didn't take them, nor did they take the AP exam, that will be a red flag.

And even with a high SAT score, and high AP exam scores, full AP courseload, DC was still rejected.

Other top eng colleges will expect the same.

That's why I drilled it home to make a point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing about super high SAT scores. When I was in school in the late 90s a food score was over 1200 and anything over 1400 was very high. Now it seems like 1200 is typical. I had a 3.2 unweighted GPA (40th percentile of class), no APs, and a 1240 SAT score and I got easily into every school I applied and offered merit scholarships at some of them. I only applied where I thought I’d get in. The programs were equal to VA Tech, where I was accepted for Mechanical Engineering but went to another school.

My daughter is a sophomore and has a 4.7 weighted GPA (4.0 unweighted), no APs, hasn’t taken the SAT yet. I feel like she’s far better positioned than I was, but realize it’s harder right now to get into many programs. What score would she need to get into UMCP or VA Tech for engineering?

She's not getting into either of those schools for engineering with no APs.

She’s a sophomore. With a 4.7 weighted, surely she’s on track for APs.

She is pretty significantly learning disabled. APs are unsupported classes so she opts to not take them. Her GPA is higher than most kids who are in them. She works very hard. Lots of extracurricular activities.

Engineering is likely not a good fit as a major, and especially not at a large state flagship.

I have a degree in computer science and have worked with engineers as my user base and coworkers for most of my career. She’s very well suited to it. She’s also going to be taking a 2 year part-time engineering program through MCPS her junior and senior year and took Engineering already in high school and was regularly asked by her teacher to help other students. I know what is good for her. I am not asking if that’s a good choice of career. I am only asking about SAT scores. You should know that many many engineers are learning disabled.

Yes, but they’re taking AP math & science classes and on-level or honors humanities/social science classes.

No. They are not all doing that.

When I went to school I was told the same thing, because I’d never taken them. I graduated with 25 people and 200+ who took the APs dropped out after a year.

Times have changed a lot since you went to school.

+1 When I was in HS, AP classes started in 11th grade. My kids have been taking AP classes starting from 9th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing about super high SAT scores. When I was in school in the late 90s a food score was over 1200 and anything over 1400 was very high. Now it seems like 1200 is typical. I had a 3.2 unweighted GPA (40th percentile of class), no APs, and a 1240 SAT score and I got easily into every school I applied and offered merit scholarships at some of them. I only applied where I thought I’d get in. The programs were equal to VA Tech, where I was accepted for Mechanical Engineering but went to another school.

My daughter is a sophomore and has a 4.7 weighted GPA (4.0 unweighted), no APs, hasn’t taken the SAT yet. I feel like she’s far better positioned than I was, but realize it’s harder right now to get into many programs. What score would she need to get into UMCP or VA Tech for engineering?

She's not getting into either of those schools for engineering with no APs.

She’s a sophomore. With a 4.7 weighted, surely she’s on track for APs.

She is pretty significantly learning disabled. APs are unsupported classes so she opts to not take them. Her GPA is higher than most kids who are in them. She works very hard. Lots of extracurricular activities.

That's all great. But reality is, most schools in the T40-50 expect students to be taking APs if available. And I'd argue, if she needs support to be in those classes (and that is fine! I have a kid with learning issues, I get it), then engineering at those schools may not be right fit for her. Look for a smaller school where the classes will be smaller, there will be more "help" and they will support her disabilities with accommodations, so she an succeed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing about super high SAT scores. When I was in school in the late 90s a food score was over 1200 and anything over 1400 was very high. Now it seems like 1200 is typical. I had a 3.2 unweighted GPA (40th percentile of class), no APs, and a 1240 SAT score and I got easily into every school I applied and offered merit scholarships at some of them. I only applied where I thought I’d get in. The programs were equal to VA Tech, where I was accepted for Mechanical Engineering but went to another school.

My daughter is a sophomore and has a 4.7 weighted GPA (4.0 unweighted), no APs, hasn’t taken the SAT yet. I feel like she’s far better positioned than I was, but realize it’s harder right now to get into many programs. What score would she need to get into UMCP or VA Tech for engineering?

She's not getting into either of those schools for engineering with no APs.

She’s a sophomore. With a 4.7 weighted, surely she’s on track for APs.

She is pretty significantly learning disabled. APs are unsupported classes so she opts to not take them. Her GPA is higher than most kids who are in them. She works very hard. Lots of extracurricular activities.

Engineering is likely not a good fit as a major, and especially not at a large state flagship.

I have a degree in computer science and have worked with engineers as my user base and coworkers for most of my career. She’s very well suited to it. She’s also going to be taking a 2 year part-time engineering program through MCPS her junior and senior year and took Engineering already in high school and was regularly asked by her teacher to help other students. I know what is good for her. I am not asking if that’s a good choice of career. I am only asking about SAT scores. You should know that many many engineers are learning disabled.

(NP) But it may not be the best fit at a large state flagship! Plenty of smaller engineering schools that will provide more support, smaller classes, better advising, etc....all things it sounds like your daughter will need to succeed. Set her up for success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They are prepping hard. And taking it multiple times to superscore. According to latest Common App report, 76,000+ students applied to college with SAT scores greater than 1500.

This is exactly why the importance of a high SAT score is declining. It still has value when considered, which it still is at most schools, but it's not enough to get anyone admitted.

Which leaves grades, which are massively inflated.

[Anonymous]

Look, OP, your kid’s 4.7 GPA will be taken into context and trust me - without any APs, especially in math and science, your kid will be rejected by every engineering school being discussed on this thread. The only way that won’t happen is if the school doesn’t offer APs.

That’s the reality. You and your daughter need to know that now.