Is walls ever bringing back the test for admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that problem played into the Mayor's decision to nix the Walls test two years ago, or so she claimed. What a misguided approach to leveling the playing field. The obvious solution is for the District to pay to level the playing field. ES GT programs could be introduced in Title 1 schools. DCPS could make sure that all applicants have a chance to learn the requisite math. They pour money into renovating mostly empty MS buildings instead, e.g. Jefferson Academy ($60 million, still more than half empty five years later). NYC provides the prep at free test prep centers for MS and HS students scattered around each of its four boroughs. Kids can freely pop into the centers for test prep after school and on weekends to supplement the math instruction they get at school. In NYC, kids who want to prep for HS magnet tests are given thick learning packets and support to learn independently on Khan Academy. Most NYC middle schools have a computer lab where students are encouraged to work on academics after school, under the watchful eye of staff with tutors on hand. There are ways and ways to provide the prep some low SES kids will need to score high enough on the exam to test into academic magnets. DCPS bothers with none of them. Eliminating the Walls test and standardized test requirement on the application was much cheaper and easier.

I'm all for standardized tests and free test prep, but New York has been dealing with the same issues as DC because all of that test prep is still not getting them a population that can pass the entrance tests for specialized high schools that looks anything like their overall population. The difference is that they have a parent and alumni population that's been more able to push back again killing the exam schools.

You could also do a test and then sort by school or ward of residence. Seems more transparent than the GPA/interview as long as you can get enough interested test takers across the city.

[Anonymous]

“NYC provides the prep at free test prep centers for MS and HS students scattered around each of its four boroughs.”

OP may have not considered Manhattan a borough?

[Anonymous]

Ha. Five boroughs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that problem played into the Mayor's decision to nix the Walls test two years ago, or so she claimed. What a misguided approach to leveling the playing field. The obvious solution is for the District to pay to level the playing field. ES GT programs could be introduced in Title 1 schools. DCPS could make sure that all applicants have a chance to learn the requisite math. They pour money into renovating mostly empty MS buildings instead, e.g. Jefferson Academy ($60 million, still more than half empty five years later). NYC provides the prep at free test prep centers for MS and HS students scattered around each of its four boroughs. Kids can freely pop into the centers for test prep after school and on weekends to supplement the math instruction they get at school. In NYC, kids who want to prep for HS magnet tests are given thick learning packets and support to learn independently on Khan Academy. Most NYC middle schools have a computer lab where students are encouraged to work on academics after school, under the watchful eye of staff with tutors on hand. There are ways and ways to provide the prep some low SES kids will need to score high enough on the exam to test into academic magnets. DCPS bothers with none of them. Eliminating the Walls test and standardized test requirement on the application was much cheaper and easier.

I'm all for standardized tests and free test prep, but New York has been dealing with the same issues as DC because all of that test prep is still not getting them a population that can pass the entrance tests for specialized high schools that looks anything like their overall population. The difference is that they have a parent and alumni population that's been more able to push back again killing the exam schools.

You could also do a test and then sort by school or ward of residence. Seems more transparent than the GPA/interview as long as you can get enough interested test takers across the city.

Yes. That's what Chicago does - by zip code. There are a few different options. I think DC picked one of the worst. But there isn't one that removes this from being a contentious political issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought the equity portion of the test was related to lower performing schools not offering as high level math as schools like Basis and Deal and therefore many bright kids in these schools wouldn't have the same opportunity to do well on the test because they hadn't had the chance to take classes like Algebra I, Geometry etc.

Maybe I am wrong but I do think this is a valid argument either against a test, or to possibly offer a test that caps math at the lowest highest level offered at any DC middle school.

I think your heart is in the right place but like the powers that be in DC your solutions are regressive. What you've articulated is a model where we lower the "standard" to the lowest common denominator. That is INSANE. If the argument is that kids are at a disadvantage because they haven't been exposed to higher level material (I agree), the solution is not to lower the standard. The solution is to provide resources to those kids and schools to provide supplementation, test prep and wrap around academic services to those who want them. That is what NY, Boston and other places do.

The perversion of "equity" in DC is going to destroy our educational system. I used to mean offering excellent academic opportunities to all kids, regardless of background or income. You've all twisted it to mean lowering standards. You are perpetuating the belief that POC can't excel in school. Stop "helping".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the equity portion of the test was related to lower performing schools not offering as high level math as schools like Basis and Deal and therefore many bright kids in these schools wouldn't have the same opportunity to do well on the test because they hadn't had the chance to take classes like Algebra I, Geometry etc.

Maybe I am wrong but I do think this is a valid argument either against a test, or to possibly offer a test that caps math at the lowest highest level offered at any DC middle school.

I think your heart is in the right place but like the powers that be in DC your solutions are regressive. What you've articulated is a model where we lower the "standard" to the lowest common denominator. That is INSANE. If the argument is that kids are at a disadvantage because they haven't been exposed to higher level material (I agree), the solution is not to lower the standard. The solution is to provide resources to those kids and schools to provide supplementation, test prep and wrap around academic services to those who want them. That is what NY, Boston and other places do.

The perversion of "equity" in DC is going to destroy our educational system. I used to mean offering excellent academic opportunities to all kids, regardless of background or income. You've all twisted it to mean lowering standards. You are perpetuating the belief that POC can't excel in school. Stop "helping".

This is PP and I completely agree with you on this. It infuriates me that DC actually thinks they are helping their least advantaged kids by teaching them less. I was just offering a thought based on the current state of what's offered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that problem played into the Mayor's decision to nix the Walls test two years ago, or so she claimed. What a misguided approach to leveling the playing field. The obvious solution is for the District to pay to level the playing field. ES GT programs could be introduced in Title 1 schools. DCPS could make sure that all applicants have a chance to learn the requisite math. They pour money into renovating mostly empty MS buildings instead, e.g. Jefferson Academy ($60 million, still more than half empty five years later). NYC provides the prep at free test prep centers for MS and HS students scattered around each of its four boroughs. Kids can freely pop into the centers for test prep after school and on weekends to supplement the math instruction they get at school. In NYC, kids who want to prep for HS magnet tests are given thick learning packets and support to learn independently on Khan Academy. Most NYC middle schools have a computer lab where students are encouraged to work on academics after school, under the watchful eye of staff with tutors on hand. There are ways and ways to provide the prep some low SES kids will need to score high enough on the exam to test into academic magnets. DCPS bothers with none of them. Eliminating the Walls test and standardized test requirement on the application was much cheaper and easier.

I'm all for standardized tests and free test prep, but New York has been dealing with the same issues as DC because all of that test prep is still not getting them a population that can pass the entrance tests for specialized high schools that looks anything like their overall population. The difference is that they have a parent and alumni population that's been more able to push back again killing the exam schools.

Even if we assume the desired outcome is a school population that mirrors the city population, the question is what a jurisdiction does to close that gap. Do they double down on test prep and extra resources to close that gap? Or do they just throw up their hands and eliminate standards.

At some point personal responsibility has to come into play. If resources are available and parents don't take advantage of them then those parents need to own that. The people who argue that systemic racism and oppression are causing people to not take advantage of resources are infantilizing those populations. They are also screwing over kids within those communities who are willing to take advantage of available resources and work hard. Their efforts are dismissed. The kids most negatively impacted by lowering the bar are POC in poor communities whose hard work is diminished and goes unrewarded. The kid in the middle-bottom of a MS who didn't want to take advantage of tutoring or test prep isn't going to go to MIT. The kid who did all the right things but is shut out because "equity" loses out on the Walls opportunity because we decide rewarding that kid and her efforts is...racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the equity portion of the test was related to lower performing schools not offering as high level math as schools like Basis and Deal and therefore many bright kids in these schools wouldn't have the same opportunity to do well on the test because they hadn't had the chance to take classes like Algebra I, Geometry etc.

Maybe I am wrong but I do think this is a valid argument either against a test, or to possibly offer a test that caps math at the lowest highest level offered at any DC middle school.

I think your heart is in the right place but like the powers that be in DC your solutions are regressive. What you've articulated is a model where we lower the "standard" to the lowest common denominator. That is INSANE. If the argument is that kids are at a disadvantage because they haven't been exposed to higher level material (I agree), the solution is not to lower the standard. The solution is to provide resources to those kids and schools to provide supplementation, test prep and wrap around academic services to those who want them. That is what NY, Boston and other places do.

The perversion of "equity" in DC is going to destroy our educational system. I used to mean offering excellent academic opportunities to all kids, regardless of background or income. You've all twisted it to mean lowering standards. You are perpetuating the belief that POC can't excel in school. Stop "helping".

This is PP and I completely agree with you on this. It infuriates me that DC actually thinks they are helping their least advantaged kids by teaching them less. I was just offering a thought based on the current state of what's offered.

100%. There are PPs who appear to be DCPS staff arguing on other threads that homework is inequitable because some kids can hire tutors. Utter madness.

[Anonymous]

I think people on this thread have done a good job articulating the problem and some possible alternative solutions. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to affect change? What can we do as DC residents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that problem played into the Mayor's decision to nix the Walls test two years ago, or so she claimed. What a misguided approach to leveling the playing field. The obvious solution is for the District to pay to level the playing field. ES GT programs could be introduced in Title 1 schools. DCPS could make sure that all applicants have a chance to learn the requisite math. They pour money into renovating mostly empty MS buildings instead, e.g. Jefferson Academy ($60 million, still more than half empty five years later). NYC provides the prep at free test prep centers for MS and HS students scattered around each of its four boroughs. Kids can freely pop into the centers for test prep after school and on weekends to supplement the math instruction they get at school. In NYC, kids who want to prep for HS magnet tests are given thick learning packets and support to learn independently on Khan Academy. Most NYC middle schools have a computer lab where students are encouraged to work on academics after school, under the watchful eye of staff with tutors on hand. There are ways and ways to provide the prep some low SES kids will need to score high enough on the exam to test into academic magnets. DCPS bothers with none of them. Eliminating the Walls test and standardized test requirement on the application was much cheaper and easier.

I'm all for standardized tests and free test prep, but New York has been dealing with the same issues as DC because all of that test prep is still not getting them a population that can pass the entrance tests for specialized high schools that looks anything like their overall population. The difference is that they have a parent and alumni population that's been more able to push back again killing the exam schools.

Even if we assume the desired outcome is a school population that mirrors the city population, the question is what a jurisdiction does to close that gap. Do they double down on test prep and extra resources to close that gap? Or do they just throw up their hands and eliminate standards.

One solution is to drive high-achieving students/families into the suburbs. Then the city will have a uniformly low-achieving population, and can focus its efforts there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people on this thread have done a good job articulating the problem and some possible alternative solutions. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to affect change? What can we do as DC residents?

Move out of DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that problem played into the Mayor's decision to nix the Walls test two years ago, or so she claimed. What a misguided approach to leveling the playing field. The obvious solution is for the District to pay to level the playing field. ES GT programs could be introduced in Title 1 schools. DCPS could make sure that all applicants have a chance to learn the requisite math. They pour money into renovating mostly empty MS buildings instead, e.g. Jefferson Academy ($60 million, still more than half empty five years later). NYC provides the prep at free test prep centers for MS and HS students scattered around each of its four boroughs. Kids can freely pop into the centers for test prep after school and on weekends to supplement the math instruction they get at school. In NYC, kids who want to prep for HS magnet tests are given thick learning packets and support to learn independently on Khan Academy. Most NYC middle schools have a computer lab where students are encouraged to work on academics after school, under the watchful eye of staff with tutors on hand. There are ways and ways to provide the prep some low SES kids will need to score high enough on the exam to test into academic magnets. DCPS bothers with none of them. Eliminating the Walls test and standardized test requirement on the application was much cheaper and easier.

I'm all for standardized tests and free test prep, but New York has been dealing with the same issues as DC because all of that test prep is still not getting them a population that can pass the entrance tests for specialized high schools that looks anything like their overall population. The difference is that they have a parent and alumni population that's been more able to push back again killing the exam schools.

Even if we assume the desired outcome is a school population that mirrors the city population, the question is what a jurisdiction does to close that gap. Do they double down on test prep and extra resources to close that gap? Or do they just throw up their hands and eliminate standards.

At some point personal responsibility has to come into play. If resources are available and parents don't take advantage of them then those parents need to own that. The people who argue that systemic racism and oppression are causing people to not take advantage of resources are infantilizing those populations. They are also screwing over kids within those communities who are willing to take advantage of available resources and work hard. Their efforts are dismissed. The kids most negatively impacted by lowering the bar are POC in poor communities whose hard work is diminished and goes unrewarded. The kid in the middle-bottom of a MS who didn't want to take advantage of tutoring or test prep isn't going to go to MIT. The kid who did all the right things but is shut out because "equity" loses out on the Walls opportunity because we decide rewarding that kid and her efforts is...racist?

Why is this the desired outcome? Walls should of course support diversity but not at the expense of academic achievement, at least not egregiously.

I admire how NYC, with an Asian population of around 12%, permits each of its 9 academic magnet high schools to admit classes that are at least half Asian year after year, decade after decade. NYC civil rights groups are vocal about the "imbalance" in the media on a regular basis, yet successive DC mayors have held firm on admitting top students to top public schools, race notwithstanding. The reality is that most of the admitted Asian students still come from low SES backgrounds. If it isn't broken...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that problem played into the Mayor's decision to nix the Walls test two years ago, or so she claimed. What a misguided approach to leveling the playing field. The obvious solution is for the District to pay to level the playing field. ES GT programs could be introduced in Title 1 schools. DCPS could make sure that all applicants have a chance to learn the requisite math. They pour money into renovating mostly empty MS buildings instead, e.g. Jefferson Academy ($60 million, still more than half empty five years later). NYC provides the prep at free test prep centers for MS and HS students scattered around each of its four boroughs. Kids can freely pop into the centers for test prep after school and on weekends to supplement the math instruction they get at school. In NYC, kids who want to prep for HS magnet tests are given thick learning packets and support to learn independently on Khan Academy. Most NYC middle schools have a computer lab where students are encouraged to work on academics after school, under the watchful eye of staff with tutors on hand. There are ways and ways to provide the prep some low SES kids will need to score high enough on the exam to test into academic magnets. DCPS bothers with none of them. Eliminating the Walls test and standardized test requirement on the application was much cheaper and easier.

I'm all for standardized tests and free test prep, but New York has been dealing with the same issues as DC because all of that test prep is still not getting them a population that can pass the entrance tests for specialized high schools that looks anything like their overall population. The difference is that they have a parent and alumni population that's been more able to push back again killing the exam schools.

Private schools is the solution here! That's what's crazy to me. Spending $1mil on a home but being ok paying with private schools is insane. It's ingrained in the culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people on this thread have done a good job articulating the problem and some possible alternative solutions. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to affect change? What can we do as DC residents?

Have to put pressure on elected officials and be the louder than the other crazies.

[Anonymous]

Has anything changed in terms of the schools at SWW, Banneker, etc., in the past couple years without exams? Like actually changed?