Is walls ever bringing back the test for admissions?

[Anonymous]

DCPS teachers are eligible for up to $25,000 annual bonuses under the IMPACTplus system. Eligibility depends on their ability to increase student grades.

No surprise that DCPS has such rampant grade inflation.

https://does.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/2013-2014%20IMPACTplus%20For%20Teachers.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one issue is that some schools (e.g., BASIS) give actual grades and some schools (e.g., many DCPSes) give As to anyone who completes the work by the end of the marking period.

My DD has smart, hard-working friends at BASIS who didn't make the cutoff because they're not great at math & study 10-15 hours/week outside of class. She also has friends at SH who turned in every assignment & spend no more than 10-15 hours a term on studying and made the cutoff.

I'm not sure DCPS minds that the grade cutoff is helping kids at less selective schools, and BASIS is more than happy to keep its students, but Deal & charters with HSes will be under enormous pressure to inflate grades even more after the cutoff was so high this year.

I don't understand how the kids can be at BASIS and not be good at math. I was a math major and it's about repeation and hard work. BASIS seems to be providing plenty on both ends. There are SH kids at Walls and I'm sure they would say otherwise.

I think that the point is that some BASIS kids are doing a lot of work on high-level math and getting a B+ whereas if they were at Deal or Hardy they would be doing lower-level math and getting an A with minimal effort.

So, an otherwise qualified BASIS kid might miss the Walls cut-off because BASIS doesn't have the same grade inflation as DCPS--even though the BASIS kid is doing more advanced work than the DCPS kid.

This is another reason why it is fairer to have a standardized test for all applicants. That is what Walls used to have, and what other big cities have. DCPS is really a national outlier here.

[Anonymous]

Maybe slightly off topic, but having an admissions test with a sufficiently high cut-off is imperative for everyone, but especially for high-performing black boys.

Even with lowered entry standards, folks are going to have a higher set of expectations for kids that present white or Asian — there will an assumption that those kids are at least at/above grade level even if not demonstrated high-flyers.

But for my black sons, there will be much lower expectations by default — a ditch they’ll have to claw themselves out off just be seen as equal to their white and Asian peers (doesn’t help that only 9% of DC black boys are proficient in math).

An admissions test with a high cut off would at least give them the opportunity to demonstrate what they are capable off. But the current test-free approach leaves them defenseless and consigns them the upfront task of digging themselves out of the ditch.

Probably not something the powers that be think or care about….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't a test be more equitable than GPA? I know students who don't try hard in school or don't even show up half the time because it's boring--but they're incredibly smart, far smarter than their grades would reveal.

Bored, unmotivated, but smart kids need far better attention from DCPS than they get now. However, application HS school admission should be for good students. The people who are both smart and make an effort appropriately deserve priority over people who have potential but are slack.

+1....It's so much easier to do well on one test than to be consistent.

Wouldn’t it be great if both the GPA and the test were used for admissions to have a better picture of each applicant?

Oh, wait.

That would be IF all DC MS offered the same curriculum. Walls is definitely Deal dominant. Deal just has more of an advanced cohort than others. I suspect an essay component will be added to gauge writing ability. This what we get with no G&T Program!

If it’s Deal dominant, it’s because Deal is large. As long as all schools have about the same percentage of kids with a near-4.0 GPA, kids have as much of a shot from any school. Deal is just bigger than the other middle schools. Maybe the kids are also more advanced, but that isn’t necessarily captured in this application process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe slightly off topic, but having an admissions test with a sufficiently high cut-off is imperative for everyone, but especially for high-performing black boys.

Even with lowered entry standards, folks are going to have a higher set of expectations for kids that present white or Asian — there will an assumption that those kids are at least at/above grade level even if not demonstrated high-flyers.

But for my black sons, there will be much lower expectations by default — a ditch they’ll have to claw themselves out off just be seen as equal to their white and Asian peers (doesn’t help that only 9% of DC black boys are proficient in math).

An admissions test with a high cut off would at least give them the opportunity to demonstrate what they are capable off. But the current test-free approach leaves them defenseless and consigns them the upfront task of digging themselves out of the ditch.

Probably not something the powers that be think or care about….

+1

And I can tell you DCPS central office is not about actual high expectations or standards for students. The grading scale is meant to just have kids limp through the finish line and get a high school diploma. They don’t care how little it means when the expectations are so low and how it especially hurts black students. They really don’t care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe slightly off topic, but having an admissions test with a sufficiently high cut-off is imperative for everyone, but especially for high-performing black boys.

Even with lowered entry standards, folks are going to have a higher set of expectations for kids that present white or Asian — there will an assumption that those kids are at least at/above grade level even if not demonstrated high-flyers.

But for my black sons, there will be much lower expectations by default — a ditch they’ll have to claw themselves out off just be seen as equal to their white and Asian peers (doesn’t help that only 9% of DC black boys are proficient in math).

An admissions test with a high cut off would at least give them the opportunity to demonstrate what they are capable off. But the current test-free approach leaves them defenseless and consigns them the upfront task of digging themselves out of the ditch.

Probably not something the powers that be think or care about….

So are you saying the GPA cutoff is impending them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCPS teachers are eligible for up to $25,000 annual bonuses under the IMPACTplus system. Eligibility depends on their ability to increase student grades.

No surprise that DCPS has such rampant grade inflation.

https://does.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/2013-2014%20IMPACTplus%20For%20Teachers.pdf

Deal teachers aren’t eligible for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one issue is that some schools (e.g., BASIS) give actual grades and some schools (e.g., many DCPSes) give As to anyone who completes the work by the end of the marking period.

My DD has smart, hard-working friends at BASIS who didn't make the cutoff because they're not great at math & study 10-15 hours/week outside of class. She also has friends at SH who turned in every assignment & spend no more than 10-15 hours a term on studying and made the cutoff.

I'm not sure DCPS minds that the grade cutoff is helping kids at less selective schools, and BASIS is more than happy to keep its students, but Deal & charters with HSes will be under enormous pressure to inflate grades even more after the cutoff was so high this year.

I don't understand how the kids can be at BASIS and not be good at math. I was a math major and it's about repeation and hard work. BASIS seems to be providing plenty on both ends. There are SH kids at Walls and I'm sure they would say otherwise.

NP. They aren't saying the kids aren't good at math. BASIS is a non-stop grind in every class. Quizzes weekly. Homework nightly. No retakes. No excuses. One bad day can tank a grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe slightly off topic, but having an admissions test with a sufficiently high cut-off is imperative for everyone, but especially for high-performing black boys.

Even with lowered entry standards, folks are going to have a higher set of expectations for kids that present white or Asian — there will an assumption that those kids are at least at/above grade level even if not demonstrated high-flyers.

But for my black sons, there will be much lower expectations by default — a ditch they’ll have to claw themselves out off just be seen as equal to their white and Asian peers (doesn’t help that only 9% of DC black boys are proficient in math).

An admissions test with a high cut off would at least give them the opportunity to demonstrate what they are capable off. But the current test-free approach leaves them defenseless and consigns them the upfront task of digging themselves out of the ditch.

Probably not something the powers that be think or care about….

So are you saying the GPA cutoff is impending them?

No, not at all. But a black boy having a high GPA won’t be enough to deter low expectations when it’s doesn’t take all that much to earn a high GPA in most DC middle schools. If you are a highly capable black kid, you really need to the opportunity to distinguish yourself via a test that allows for a direct comparison with white/Asian UMC peers. I mean, even that isn’t full proof as you don’t exactly stamp your test score across the forehead, but it is an extra little bit of ammunition that can be deployed as necessary. Otherwise, most will just assume you’re part of the 90% of underperforming black boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe slightly off topic, but having an admissions test with a sufficiently high cut-off is imperative for everyone, but especially for high-performing black boys.

Even with lowered entry standards, folks are going to have a higher set of expectations for kids that present white or Asian — there will an assumption that those kids are at least at/above grade level even if not demonstrated high-flyers.

But for my black sons, there will be much lower expectations by default — a ditch they’ll have to claw themselves out off just be seen as equal to their white and Asian peers (doesn’t help that only 9% of DC black boys are proficient in math).

An admissions test with a high cut off would at least give them the opportunity to demonstrate what they are capable off. But the current test-free approach leaves them defenseless and consigns them the upfront task of digging themselves out of the ditch.

Probably not something the powers that be think or care about….

So are you saying the GPA cutoff is impending them?

No, not at all. But a black boy having a high GPA won’t be enough to deter low expectations when it’s doesn’t take all that much to earn a high GPA in most DC middle schools. If you are a highly capable black kid, you really need to the opportunity to distinguish yourself via a test that allows for a direct comparison with white/Asian UMC peers. I mean, even that isn’t full proof as you don’t exactly stamp your test score across the forehead, but it is an extra little bit of ammunition that can be deployed as necessary. Otherwise, most will just assume you’re part of the 90% of underperforming black boys.

Why not just have them take the PARCC and the PSAT9 with every other 8th and 9th grader in town? It’s not like the Walls exam is the only validating exam that ever existed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe slightly off topic, but having an admissions test with a sufficiently high cut-off is imperative for everyone, but especially for high-performing black boys.

Even with lowered entry standards, folks are going to have a higher set of expectations for kids that present white or Asian — there will an assumption that those kids are at least at/above grade level even if not demonstrated high-flyers.

But for my black sons, there will be much lower expectations by default — a ditch they’ll have to claw themselves out off just be seen as equal to their white and Asian peers (doesn’t help that only 9% of DC black boys are proficient in math).

An admissions test with a high cut off would at least give them the opportunity to demonstrate what they are capable off. But the current test-free approach leaves them defenseless and consigns them the upfront task of digging themselves out of the ditch.

Probably not something the powers that be think or care about….

So are you saying the GPA cutoff is impending them?

No, not at all. But a black boy having a high GPA won’t be enough to deter low expectations when it’s doesn’t take all that much to earn a high GPA in most DC middle schools. If you are a highly capable black kid, you really need to the opportunity to distinguish yourself via a test that allows for a direct comparison with white/Asian UMC peers. I mean, even that isn’t full proof as you don’t exactly stamp your test score across the forehead, but it is an extra little bit of ammunition that can be deployed as necessary. Otherwise, most will just assume you’re part of the 90% of underperforming black boys.

Why not just have them take the PARCC and the PSAT9 with every other 8th and 9th grader in town? It’s not like the Walls exam is the only validating exam that ever existed.

That’s fine I suppose, but why not just set up a regime where that the only kids there are those of demonstrated high ability such that the black kids there are more likely to be assumed to be of high ability as compared to the prevailing situation where they are assumed to be of low ability under a grades-only regime?

[Anonymous]

I thought the equity portion of the test was related to lower performing schools not offering as high level math as schools like Basis and Deal and therefore many bright kids in these schools wouldn't have the same opportunity to do well on the test because they hadn't had the chance to take classes like Algebra I, Geometry etc.

Maybe I am wrong but I do think this is a valid argument either against a test, or to possibly offer a test that caps math at the lowest highest level offered at any DC middle school.

[Anonymous]

Yes, that problem played into the Mayor's decision to nix the Walls test two years ago, or so she claimed. What a misguided approach to leveling the playing field. The obvious solution is for the District to pay to level the playing field. ES GT programs could be introduced in Title 1 schools. DCPS could make sure that all applicants have a chance to learn the requisite math. They pour money into renovating mostly empty MS buildings instead, e.g. Jefferson Academy ($60 million, still more than half empty five years later). NYC provides the prep at free test prep centers for MS and HS students scattered around each of its four boroughs. Kids can freely pop into the centers for test prep after school and on weekends to supplement the math instruction they get at school. In NYC, kids who want to prep for HS magnet tests are given thick learning packets and support to learn independently on Khan Academy. Most NYC middle schools have a computer lab where students are encouraged to work on academics after school, under the watchful eye of staff with tutors on hand. There are ways and ways to provide the prep some low SES kids will need to score high enough on the exam to test into academic magnets. DCPS bothers with none of them. Eliminating the Walls test and standardized test requirement on the application was much cheaper and easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that problem played into the Mayor's decision to nix the Walls test two years ago, or so she claimed. What a misguided approach to leveling the playing field. The obvious solution is for the District to pay to level the playing field. ES GT programs could be introduced in Title 1 schools. DCPS could make sure that all applicants have a chance to learn the requisite math. They pour money into renovating mostly empty MS buildings instead, e.g. Jefferson Academy ($60 million, still more than half empty five years later). NYC provides the prep at free test prep centers for MS and HS students scattered around each of its four boroughs. Kids can freely pop into the centers for test prep after school and on weekends to supplement the math instruction they get at school. In NYC, kids who want to prep for HS magnet tests are given thick learning packets and support to learn independently on Khan Academy. Most NYC middle schools have a computer lab where students are encouraged to work on academics after school, under the watchful eye of staff with tutors on hand. There are ways and ways to provide the prep some low SES kids will need to score high enough on the exam to test into academic magnets. DCPS bothers with none of them. Eliminating the Walls test and standardized test requirement on the application was much cheaper and easier.

I'm all for standardized tests and free test prep, but New York has been dealing with the same issues as DC because all of that test prep is still not getting them a population that can pass the entrance tests for specialized high schools that looks anything like their overall population. The difference is that they have a parent and alumni population that's been more able to push back again killing the exam schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that problem played into the Mayor's decision to nix the Walls test two years ago, or so she claimed. What a misguided approach to leveling the playing field. The obvious solution is for the District to pay to level the playing field. ES GT programs could be introduced in Title 1 schools. DCPS could make sure that all applicants have a chance to learn the requisite math. They pour money into renovating mostly empty MS buildings instead, e.g. Jefferson Academy ($60 million, still more than half empty five years later). NYC provides the prep at free test prep centers for MS and HS students scattered around each of its four boroughs. Kids can freely pop into the centers for test prep after school and on weekends to supplement the math instruction they get at school. In NYC, kids who want to prep for HS magnet tests are given thick learning packets and support to learn independently on Khan Academy. Most NYC middle schools have a computer lab where students are encouraged to work on academics after school, under the watchful eye of staff with tutors on hand. There are ways and ways to provide the prep some low SES kids will need to score high enough on the exam to test into academic magnets. DCPS bothers with none of them. Eliminating the Walls test and standardized test requirement on the application was much cheaper and easier.

NYC - Manhattan, SI, Bklyn, the Bronx and Queens. Note above only references 4 not 5.

Is one not included in offering the testing resources?