Abbott elementary takes on the Charter School Movement

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charter schools bleed money from the public schools. And, charter schools don't have the same requirements as public schools or any oversite. It's a crap shoot, could be amazing or a total disaster! More often than not, a disaster

New poster. Charters don’t actually take any money from public schools directly. All schools are funded per pupil. If a public school’s enrollment is suffering, I think they should do a better job of figuring out why people don’t want to send their kid there versus blaming the school they opted to send their kids to. I do agree that charters need more oversight and that many of them are absolutely terrible and not actually a better option than the public alternative. That being said, I think it’s clear that parents want something that isn’t necessarily offered in the traditional public school setting. It would be better for districts to offer those options rather than fighting against them.

For the parents that want something different, they should pay to send their children to private school, not use my tax dollars to support charters

Here - let me fix that for you. If a caregiver can't afford to live in a wealthy neighborhood with good schools, with by-right school boundaries that are based on historic racism and redlining, they should keep their children in schools that have been underinvested in and underperformed for generations. They shouldn't have a taxpayer funded option for a school with better outcomes where their children are safe and learning. Only people with the means to 1. buy a house in an expensive neighborhood and/or 2. pay for private school should have anyone meaningful choice about which school their child attends.

This would be less holier than thou if people weren't fleeing their IB EOTP and in CH

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I loved the episode and for those who don't think that the same problems are happening in DC are just blind. Charters regularly take a select population of students and kick out those who require more resources, leaving DCPS with more students who have more needs. At the same time, the charters erode neighborhood schools leaving them with too small of a population to provide robust offerings.

There has been a lot of research focused on this "cream skimming" hypothesis. None of it paints this black and white, clear picture you're suggesting it does. If you want to engage in real policy conversation, it's good to be grounded in evidence and thoughtful.

You can't argue with a straight face that it doesn't exist in DC. How often is the advice lottery and move if you don't get good results?

Oh, but I can argue. With a very straight face. You seem to be constructing your opinions based on feelings and what you've "heard" people talk about. Most people in DC cannot move just because they want a different school. The people that can are a tiny slice of DC and aren't/shouldn't be the focus of policy makers. Urban charters serve more students of color and more low income students than do traditional public schools. That's based on data.

That tiny slice is the cream. Those are the people who can afford to underwrite PTAs and whose students are going to do the best

Please find some data to support that these kids you are talking about are disproportionately attending charters instead of traditional public schools. That's cream skimming. We don't see it in DC.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:A few years ago, an EOTR DCPS elementary school was taken over by a charter--not just that the DCPS was closed and a charter used the building, but a regular school that had to take all in-bound kids was operated by a charter. The charter gave up. They weren't getting the test scores they wanted, and their model wasn't working with the kids they were getting and the churn throughout the year.

Charters have the opportunity to have a student body where all the kids have a grownup that planned seven months ahead and filled out the lottery forms and enrollment paperwork. They can kick out kids who come late, miss school, misbehave, or show up without uniforms and materials. DCPS schools do not have that opportunity.

Honestly this is the main point, and most of the time the charters *still* don't outperform DCPS w/r/t test scores. But so many charter supporters ignore it entirely, or make these specious arguments about how "they take some IEPs too!" as if there's anything approaching an apples to apples comparison to be made. But the truth is they just want to avoid at risk kids, and if their avoidance also drains money from the schools left behind to take care of those kids: so what?

Charters are full of at-risk kids, Latino kids, and Black kids. And I don’t think it’s true that charters in DC kick kids out like that. Stats, please? Also, arguably, it’s a feature not a bug that kids with severe behavior issues can be removed. DCPS should make greater use of alternative schools as well.

They don't kick kids out! And also, I'm glad they kick kids out, it's why I ranked them so high!

Here’s the actual data showing suspension and expulsion rates - very low.

https://dcpcsb.egnyte.com/dl/rc5LdC1UK6

And yes, I think both DCPS and charters should have the ability to engage in effective discipline.

More than 5% is very low? Or you believe that all the "mid year withdrawals" moved out of town?

Compare to the most recent DCPS data that google provides, showing that literally no kids were expelled in 2019. (https://dcschoolreportcard.org/leas/1-0000/school-safety-discipline?lang=en) So yes, the schools that "counsel out" the 5% of their student body they don't want to deal with, *after* starting from the premise that all these kids come from homes with involved parents, should be outperforming public schools. They rarely do, though.

Did you look at the link? the charter expulsion rate was 0.1% in 2021.

And, I have no issues with kids being counseled out of charters that offer advanced academics as part of their model.

Did you look at the link? The expulsion rate was 0.1% and the Mid-Year Withdrawal rate was 5.3%. They are counseling out (that's charter for "expelling") roughly 5% of their students. I know you have no issues with them doing it, which is why I laughed at your assertion that they don't do it, and also, good for them for doing it. Now that you've admitted twice that they do get rid of kids they don't want to deal with, what is the point of continuing to argue that they don't?

So your claim is that charters are lying in the data about withdrawals being involuntary? Got evidence for that?

Oh hey, I just looked up the data for Basis, the charter everyone claims “pushed kids out.” Looks like their withdrawal rate is well below DC average. So.

https://dcschoolreportcard.org/schools/168-3068/student-movement

that's the mid-year withdrawal rate. BASIS loses 3-5% of their students every year, and 10% after 8th grade. they start with about 125 kids in 5th grade and end with 70 kids in 12th. these numbers are straight from the Head of School.

The model doesn’t work for everyone, which is fine. School choice is a feature, not a bug. I know there are rumors about kids being unjustly “counseled out” but I haven’t seen them substantiated.

[Anonymous]

Imagine if white UMC parents were lectured that they could not choose appropriate schools for their kids because that would be “cream skimming.” Sorry, nope, Larlo has to be bused to Dunbar to be the cream. (Pun intended.) So wrong in so many ways.

Face it. Parents will always choose the best option they can for their children. If they are fleeing a school that means the school needs to do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charter schools bleed money from the public schools. And, charter schools don't have the same requirements as public schools or any oversite. It's a crap shoot, could be amazing or a total disaster! More often than not, a disaster

New poster. Charters don’t actually take any money from public schools directly. All schools are funded per pupil. If a public school’s enrollment is suffering, I think they should do a better job of figuring out why people don’t want to send their kid there versus blaming the school they opted to send their kids to. I do agree that charters need more oversight and that many of them are absolutely terrible and not actually a better option than the public alternative. That being said, I think it’s clear that parents want something that isn’t necessarily offered in the traditional public school setting. It would be better for districts to offer those options rather than fighting against them.

For the parents that want something different, they should pay to send their children to private school, not use my tax dollars to support charters

Disgusting. You do understand that means damning people with the least financial or social capital to just put u and shut up with often abusive levels of school dysfunction, don’t you? Have you actually stepped foot in a non-ward 3 DCPS school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The New Yorker article captures the issues perfectly. Charters are a way for political actors, billionaires, and scammers to undermine public schools to achieve their own ends—and to give elected officials an excuse to let public schools wither on the vine.

Good for Quinta Brunson.

Yes! I work in a very diverse elementary school and I see the work and joy the teachers, paras, health office, front office, etc. pour into the kids. Fight for our public schools people!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know of any books about the DC public school system? I find this topic really fascinating, and would love to get a full picture of the evolution of DC public schools, historically up through charters, the common lottery, and free PK. It seems like such an interesting case study. Does this exist?

Here are some things to read I found online quickly. Tried to give more than one perspective. DC schools desegregation and DC's white (and black) aversion to schooling with the children of DC's poor have been major drivers of DC's white (and black) flight and charters have had a mixed role in the increasing integration of DC's schools. I haven't seen anyone truly get at the different roles that charters and DCPS have in different scenarios in DC based on how the segregated city works in expensive WOTP neighborhoods, gentrifying areas, and in the shunned low-income areas of DC east of the Anacostia.

https://boundarystones.weta.org/2021/03/03/after-bolling-school-desegregation-dc

https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Revolution-Charter-Schools-Transformation/dp/0578137828

https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/dc-schools-controversial-growth-of-charter-schools

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3699549 (login)

https://www.educationnext.org/5-things-we-learned-d-c-how-to-advance-charter-schools/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The New Yorker article captures the issues perfectly. Charters are a way for political actors, billionaires, and scammers to undermine public schools to achieve their own ends—and to give elected officials an excuse to let public schools wither on the vine.

Good for Quinta Brunson.

Yes! I work in a very diverse elementary school and I see the work and joy the teachers, paras, health office, front office, etc. pour into the kids. Fight for our public schools people!

charters are public schools

what you mean is “fight for the unionized and centrally controlled school districts.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The New Yorker article captures the issues perfectly. Charters are a way for political actors, billionaires, and scammers to undermine public schools to achieve their own ends—and to give elected officials an excuse to let public schools wither on the vine.

Good for Quinta Brunson.

Yes! I work in a very diverse elementary school and I see the work and joy the teachers, paras, health office, front office, etc. pour into the kids. Fight for our public schools people!

What are you trying to say? Joy is good. It’s not limited to any particular kind of school. This demonizing of schools that educate almost half the children in DC has got to stop. You have been sucked into a political narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The New Yorker article captures the issues perfectly. Charters are a way for political actors, billionaires, and scammers to undermine public schools to achieve their own ends—and to give elected officials an excuse to let public schools wither on the vine.

Good for Quinta Brunson.

Yes! I work in a very diverse elementary school and I see the work and joy the teachers, paras, health office, front office, etc. pour into the kids. Fight for our public schools people!

charters are public schools

what you mean is “fight for the unionized and centrally controlled school districts.”

Publicly funded, sure. But they are not really public entities. That would imply ANY public oversight. The PCSB is a useless entity with virtually no power, and charters don't have to answer to any other public entity or oversight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charter schools bleed money from the public schools. And, charter schools don't have the same requirements as public schools or any oversite. It's a crap shoot, could be amazing or a total disaster! More often than not, a disaster

New poster. Charters don’t actually take any money from public schools directly. All schools are funded per pupil. If a public school’s enrollment is suffering, I think they should do a better job of figuring out why people don’t want to send their kid there versus blaming the school they opted to send their kids to. I do agree that charters need more oversight and that many of them are absolutely terrible and not actually a better option than the public alternative. That being said, I think it’s clear that parents want something that isn’t necessarily offered in the traditional public school setting. It would be better for districts to offer those options rather than fighting against them.

For the parents that want something different, they should pay to send their children to private school, not use my tax dollars to support charters

Disgusting. You do understand that means damning people with the least financial or social capital to just put u and shut up with often abusive levels of school dysfunction, don’t you? Have you actually stepped foot in a non-ward 3 DCPS school?

DP but I do, every day. I'll be sure to show my kids families what you think of them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charter schools bleed money from the public schools. And, charter schools don't have the same requirements as public schools or any oversite. It's a crap shoot, could be amazing or a total disaster! More often than not, a disaster

New poster. Charters don’t actually take any money from public schools directly. All schools are funded per pupil. If a public school’s enrollment is suffering, I think they should do a better job of figuring out why people don’t want to send their kid there versus blaming the school they opted to send their kids to. I do agree that charters need more oversight and that many of them are absolutely terrible and not actually a better option than the public alternative. That being said, I think it’s clear that parents want something that isn’t necessarily offered in the traditional public school setting. It would be better for districts to offer those options rather than fighting against them.

For the parents that want something different, they should pay to send their children to private school, not use my tax dollars to support charters

Disgusting. You do understand that means damning people with the least financial or social capital to just put u and shut up with often abusive levels of school dysfunction, don’t you? Have you actually stepped foot in a non-ward 3 DCPS school?

DP but I do, every day. I'll be sure to show my kids families what you think of them

No one with options who cared about education would even consider sending their kids to Ballou, but you think options should be removed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charter schools bleed money from the public schools. And, charter schools don't have the same requirements as public schools or any oversite. It's a crap shoot, could be amazing or a total disaster! More often than not, a disaster

New poster. Charters don’t actually take any money from public schools directly. All schools are funded per pupil. If a public school’s enrollment is suffering, I think they should do a better job of figuring out why people don’t want to send their kid there versus blaming the school they opted to send their kids to. I do agree that charters need more oversight and that many of them are absolutely terrible and not actually a better option than the public alternative. That being said, I think it’s clear that parents want something that isn’t necessarily offered in the traditional public school setting. It would be better for districts to offer those options rather than fighting against them.

For the parents that want something different, they should pay to send their children to private school, not use my tax dollars to support charters

Disgusting. You do understand that means damning people with the least financial or social capital to just put u and shut up with often abusive levels of school dysfunction, don’t you? Have you actually stepped foot in a non-ward 3 DCPS school?

DP but I do, every day. I'll be sure to show my kids families what you think of them

No one with options who cared about education would even consider sending their kids to Ballou, but you think options should be removed?

TIL Ballou is the example people go to as the broad brush for every non W3 school. I'm gonna enjoy my night while you wet your dog whistle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charter schools bleed money from the public schools. And, charter schools don't have the same requirements as public schools or any oversite. It's a crap shoot, could be amazing or a total disaster! More often than not, a disaster

New poster. Charters don’t actually take any money from public schools directly. All schools are funded per pupil. If a public school’s enrollment is suffering, I think they should do a better job of figuring out why people don’t want to send their kid there versus blaming the school they opted to send their kids to. I do agree that charters need more oversight and that many of them are absolutely terrible and not actually a better option than the public alternative. That being said, I think it’s clear that parents want something that isn’t necessarily offered in the traditional public school setting. It would be better for districts to offer those options rather than fighting against them.

For the parents that want something different, they should pay to send their children to private school, not use my tax dollars to support charters

Disgusting. You do understand that means damning people with the least financial or social capital to just put u and shut up with often abusive levels of school dysfunction, don’t you? Have you actually stepped foot in a non-ward 3 DCPS school?

DP but I do, every day. I'll be sure to show my kids families what you think of them

What I think of your kids and families? I think they get an absolute shitty educational situation and it breaks my heart. I’ve seen the DCPS system close up and if you work for DCPS you KNOW the dysfunction and dereliction. Why would you defend that system and deflect to the kids? As if…as if charters just went away tomorrow everything with DCPS would be fine. Hah! What a dream. Stop worrying about political slogans and school sectors and worry about how these kids are getting educated.

[Anonymous]

How dumb must one me to get talking points from a network TV show. Lmfao.