Do you think the mean kids get their comeuppance?

[Anonymous]

That has not been our experience, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some kids are mean at school because life sucks for them at home.

True. But they are still mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somoe of them get their comeuppance from their adult children if their adult children can accurately see their parent. It took me decades to figure out my mother is a mean girl turned old, mean woman who shamelessly lies, bullies and manipulates her way through life becuase she thinks paid employment is beneath her. She likes to bully people with disabilities, illnesses and other special needs. I permanently severed ties with her--and she deserves every bit of the confusion, shame and isolation that comes with that deciision. No really, she does.

The only reason she got her comeuppance was because I took a stand. Bullies sail through life without consequence..unless someone does something. Sometimes, no one does anything. I wish we lived in a universe where it was guaranteed that bullies would eventually pay.

I wonder about this with a woman who bullied me relentlessly in my first job out of college. She has two daughters and when I think of her, I think of them and wonder what their experience with her as a mother is.

The thing that made her such an awful bully is that she was very covert about it. Classic mean girl tactics, actually. She befriended me my first day in the office, was very complimentary and ushered me into her clique. She was a relentless gossip but she'd do it in this very specific way that made it sound like she was expressing sympathy with her target, or was worried about them. Like "I'm very concerned about Larla -- she screwed up that project last week and her manager is really frustrated with her, but I suspect she's having marital issues and that's what's got her off her game." In the moment you'd think wow, you are very compassionate to think about our colleague in that way, but then later you'd realize it was just a subtle way for her to talk $hit about Larla's work performance (which had nothing to do with her) and private life. She did this with everyone. She also collected a bunch of little acolytes (I was definitely one of them my first few months on the job, before I figured out who she was) and they'd do a lot of her dirty work for her -- she'd tell them things "in confidence" about other people in the office and then they'd go and gossip incessantly about this, and in this way she would seem above the fray even though she was almost always the source of these rumors. She'd also weaponize her own vulnerabilities if anyone called her on her behavior -- on the very rare occasion someone would call her out, she'd immediately get very emotional and upset and her acolytes would swarm around her to protect her and ultimately the person who'd said something to her would wind up apologizing. I saw this happen multiple times.

She is probably the scariest person I've ever encountered as an adult because she was so good at what she did. She destroyed people's careers. I can think of a half dozen people who left not only that organization but the industry we worked in after being targeted by her with gossip and getting blackballed by her little group. There were at least three of us who wound up in counseling as we left because the experience was so demoralizing -- this happened years ago but occasionally it still comes up in therapy for me because the scars went very deep.

Anyway, I think of her daughters and I wonder if she does this stuff with them and what that must be like. Or maybe because they are her kids she uses this behavior to protect them, which I think could also have negative impacts longterm because they could either learn this from her or others might learn not to trust them because their mom is a sociopath. I hope for their sake that she has either changed or just doesn't do this stuff with them, only at work. But I still wouldn't want to be her daughter. I think, like you, they'd discover one day what their mom was and it would harm them.

I wonder how she got that way.

Yes you are describing a narcissist.
They begin with a love bombing phase. Then then demoralize, triangulate and gaslight
They tend to have what psychiatrists call "flying monekys" around them to protect them and do their bidding
They also often see their children as extensions of themselves and turn the children into narcissists on top of it. So while they will look like they are parent of the year, they are actually incapable of real.love. example is a person known in our school uses the daughter to live through vicariously.. has planned the daughter's entire career and even romantic partners and friends out with no input from the daughter herself. The daughter doesn't exist as a separate person, in her mind. To an outsider she looks like a great, involved mom but it's entirely superfine and she doesn't have real, human feelings for the child as an individual.

Look at the narcissist as a tool, they are completely predictable and you can use them to get what you want. You will also be able to spot and understand the next one . They are so predictable it's actually pretty funny.

I think you would really get a kick out of googling "narcissist love bombing, flying monkeys" etc. The articles you read describe your experiences to a T.

[Anonymous]

*superfine = superficial

[Anonymous]

No, I think they often grow out of it and become better people, though. I know that is not particularly comforting in the moment, however.

[Anonymous]

No. “Karma” isn’t real. It’s something people tell themselves to feel better.

Focus on making your kid the best they can be. Living well is the best revenge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I know I need to focus on my kid, I do, and I know that hoping for "payback" is fruitless, but I'm mostly curious. Why do they keep getting away with it? Will they have repercussions?

Hopefully not - ideally they will receive empathy and guidance from trusted adults.

Your fixation is really misplaced here!!

It's not a "fixation" and it is also not misplaced. I would want them to feel some consequence, too. And, finally, one can focus on your own kid AND want to see the bully get his/hers, at the same time.

Yes, it is, and yes, it is. And it’s not going to happen. Sorry.

(and no, my kids aren’t bullies, so don’t bother with the predictable “found the bully’s mom!”);

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you sow you will reap.

I've found in life that sometimes this takes years.

I know it makes you feel better to tell yourself that, but many times it just isn’t true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No. “Karma” isn’t real. It’s something people tell themselves to feel better.

Focus on making your kid the best they can be. Living well is the best revenge.

Karma isnt real but natural consequences are...playing people does not work in every scenario...

[Anonymous]

I was a follower - was not mean myself - but I had some mean friends in middle school that I parted ways with in HS. I'm in my 50s now and when I occasionally run into old home town friends as I did this past Christmas they ask if I'm still in touch with so-and-so mean kid - and when I say no they let loose on their painful memories from 35 years ago. The lifetime of pain "mean" people inflict is amazing and incredibly sad to me. Just knowing I'm associated with it all makes me feel uncomfortable and guilty when it's brought up. I am still FB friends with a lot of the mean kids from back in the day and I feel pretty confident that a few of them - the worst ones - are definitely still mean and raised their kids to be mean as well. Putting others down lifted them somehow and the pattern continues. You definitely don't need to beat people up or name call explicitly to be a bully - in most cases its the subtle exclusionary gestures, jabs and snickers that are just as uncomfortable and cruel. How you are treated as a child can impact your confidence and self esteem for a lifetime. Bullies should be called out, counseled and educated early on about the impacts of their actions. And those on the receiving end should - in my opinion - be taught that these kids are the flawed ones with the problems and should be pitied and ignored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a follower - was not mean myself - but I had some mean friends in middle school that I parted ways with in HS. I'm in my 50s now and when I occasionally run into old home town friends as I did this past Christmas they ask if I'm still in touch with so-and-so mean kid - and when I say no they let loose on their painful memories from 35 years ago. The lifetime of pain "mean" people inflict is amazing and incredibly sad to me. Just knowing I'm associated with it all makes me feel uncomfortable and guilty when it's brought up. I am still FB friends with a lot of the mean kids from back in the day and I feel pretty confident that a few of them - the worst ones - are definitely still mean and raised their kids to be mean as well. Putting others down lifted them somehow and the pattern continues. You definitely don't need to beat people up or name call explicitly to be a bully - in most cases its the subtle exclusionary gestures, jabs and snickers that are just as uncomfortable and cruel. How you are treated as a child can impact your confidence and self esteem for a lifetime. Bullies should be called out, counseled and educated early on about the impacts of their actions. And those on the receiving end should - in my opinion - be taught that these kids are the flawed ones with the problems and should be pitied and ignored.

Why are you fb friends with them? Why are you still choosing to associate with them? Have you learned nothing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No. “Karma” isn’t real. It’s something people tell themselves to feel better.

Focus on making your kid the best they can be. Living well is the best revenge.

I could not disagree with this more and I am a pragmatic person.

Here is what I think karma is. How you treat people will come back to you in unexpected ways. That girl you were mean to in middle school might show up in your college dorm or move into your neighborhood as an adult and tell your friends what you're like. The boy you picked on might show up as your boss. The other girl you were mean to works in the place you just applied and you never realize it but she tells the hiring manager not to even consider your application. As a practical matter, this is the most basic reason not to treat people like shit. People pop up all over the place in your life unexpectedly and can influence the course of your life in obvious and less obvious ways. Unless you plan to move across the continent as an adult, don't be a complete dick is a pretty good life plan.

[Anonymous]

They do. I think life kicks us all in the face at some point mean or not, but the mean boys and girls from growing up all have gotten their kits. I believe every one of them had a rough divorce. One mean girl I know really turned around after going through cancer treatment. The cool dude bro mean guy I knew who was so full of himself struggles with depression and has lost the good looks that helped him get away with so much (and he gained a lot of weight). Some fall apart and some become better people.

[Anonymous]

My mother is/was a mean girl and man does it catch up to you with age. When you lose your looks, your ability to turn on the charm and your slim supermodel figure....and all you have left is the real you...people run for the hills. It has made her very bitter and even meaner.

[Anonymous]

No, they rarely get what they deserve. A lot of them end up in positions of power, where they continue to bully people right up into adulthood. Others become SAHMs and rule the PTA, tormenting the other parents.