Does anyone feel like the current DSM needs urgent updating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Everyone can vent, but hopefully you understand why you shouldn’t cry loudly about your 6 week miscarriage to you friend who just had a 40-week stillbirth. Right? PP wasn’t saying you have no right to be sad or vent. She was explaining how she feels to be grouped with parents who have kids who are virtually NT.

Misery is not a contest to be won.

again that’s not the freakin’ point. the point was to understand PP’s POV when faced with parents complaining about their extremely high functioning kid.

I sympathize but what does that have to do with the DSM? That seems to be more about basic social skills than anything.

the point is that the DSM should create independent disorders, not a useless “spectrum.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

again that’s not the freakin’ point. the point was to understand PP’s POV when faced with parents complaining about their extremely high functioning kid.

A kid that needs less help at school, but still assaults their parents and attempts to jump out of a fast-moving car, is having marked difficulties. Parents of these kids often find they cannot share their struggles with NT parents because they don’t get it; and now they should shut up on the SN board because other kids have it worse?

Did PP say you have to shut up on DCUM? PP told you how they feel, which you find unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason for changing the dsm is not bc it’s annoying for parents of kids who are more profoundly impacted (even though that is a very valid and important conversation).
The reason to change the dsm is that the spectrum narrative is not helpful if the commonalities between individuals are vastly outweighed by the differences.
The purpose of diagnoses are to support research and create communities of people impacted in certain ways so that therapies and medications may be targeted to their issue. The increasing wideness of the spectrum makes this job much harder

That is not the purpose of the DSM. The DSM can be helpful for that but it is primarily for billing codes.

Also if you bump level 1 autism out of the autism category, you need another diagnosis for it because level 1 autism requires specific therapies too.

?? The DSM does not give billing codes. That’s the ICD.

The publisher of the DSM says exactly what PP said:

“ The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is the handbook used by health care professionals in the United States and much of the world as the authoritative guide to the diagnosis of mental disorders. DSM contains descriptions, symptoms and other criteria for diagnosing mental disorders. It provides a common language for clinicians to communicate about their patients and establishes consistent and reliable diagnoses that can be used in research on mental disorders. It also provides a common language for researchers to study the criteria for potential future revisions and to aid in the development of medications and other interventions.”

https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/practice/dsm/frequently-asked-questions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many diseases, disorders and issues range from mild to severe/profound. I had a basal cancer cell removed. My father died of squamous skin cancer. Both are skin cancers but vastly different outcomes. Breast cancer is similar. My DC has very severe/profound dyslexia but I don’t get bent out of shape when someone whose child has mild dyslexia complains. I empathize with what they are experiencing. It is not a ‘I’ve got it worse contest’.

If you look at your basal cancer cells under a microscope, they would look similar to your father's cancer cells. That's the key feature of cancer, and how you diagnose it. Molecular similarities.

I think many of us with kids on the spectrum -- both ends of the spectrum -- aren't convinced that our children have shared traits at all.

In your first paragraph you're talking about molecular similarities and in the second you're talking about traits, so I don't think you've addressed the argument.

autism is defined by traits/symptoms. PP gives a good analogy.

[Anonymous]

The idea that the dsm should be used for billing codes or insurance purposes is beyond ridiculous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason for changing the dsm is not bc it’s annoying for parents of kids who are more profoundly impacted (even though that is a very valid and important conversation).
The reason to change the dsm is that the spectrum narrative is not helpful if the commonalities between individuals are vastly outweighed by the differences.
The purpose of diagnoses are to support research and create communities of people impacted in certain ways so that therapies and medications may be targeted to their issue. The increasing wideness of the spectrum makes this job much harder

That is not the purpose of the DSM. The DSM can be helpful for that but it is primarily for billing codes.

Also if you bump level 1 autism out of the autism category, you need another diagnosis for it because level 1 autism requires specific therapies too.

?? The DSM does not give billing codes. That’s the ICD.

The publisher of the DSM says exactly what PP said:

“ The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is the handbook used by health care professionals in the United States and much of the world as the authoritative guide to the diagnosis of mental disorders. DSM contains descriptions, symptoms and other criteria for diagnosing mental disorders. It provides a common language for clinicians to communicate about their patients and establishes consistent and reliable diagnoses that can be used in research on mental disorders. It also provides a common language for researchers to study the criteria for potential future revisions and to aid in the development of medications and other interventions.”

https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/practice/dsm/frequently-asked-questions

or cpt for diagnostic codes
that's another hell world...the world of coding for billing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yeah, that ASD spectrum thing is BS. Always was.
Also, the ADHD+Dyslexia+high IQ is different from just one of the three.
Come to think of it, so is ADHD with a profoundly high IQ.

You know this is done by a committee right? Stupidest way ever to do it too. Really old white men mostly with a few younger (50s) ppl to round it out. I ran the Autism committee (as a staffer) for this last round when they did the spectrum and the disfunction among these ppl was intense. They should not have been allowed to name a child much less a group of disabilities.

Honestly I wish you’d talk to the New York Times or wapo.
The asd is a spectrum bs is the biggest hustle/ ruse in the history of time. It’s utter laziness and they only get away with it bc as a pp pointed out - ‘social deficits’ is so very subjective and basically covers anyone who isn’t George Clooney level of charming

I'd have to do so on background because I left the field awhile ago so can't claim "expert" on that any more. Upside, I am an expert in other areas of health policy so know how to talk on background.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason for changing the dsm is not bc it’s annoying for parents of kids who are more profoundly impacted (even though that is a very valid and important conversation).
The reason to change the dsm is that the spectrum narrative is not helpful if the commonalities between individuals are vastly outweighed by the differences.
The purpose of diagnoses are to support research and create communities of people impacted in certain ways so that therapies and medications may be targeted to their issue. The increasing wideness of the spectrum makes this job much harder

That is not the purpose of the DSM. The DSM can be helpful for that but it is primarily for billing codes.

Also if you bump level 1 autism out of the autism category, you need another diagnosis for it because level 1 autism requires specific therapies too.

?? The DSM does not give billing codes. That’s the ICD.

The publisher of the DSM says exactly what PP said:

“ The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is the handbook used by health care professionals in the United States and much of the world as the authoritative guide to the diagnosis of mental disorders. DSM contains descriptions, symptoms and other criteria for diagnosing mental disorders. It provides a common language for clinicians to communicate about their patients and establishes consistent and reliable diagnoses that can be used in research on mental disorders. It also provides a common language for researchers to study the criteria for potential future revisions and to aid in the development of medications and other interventions.”

https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/practice/dsm/frequently-asked-questions

The DSM absolutely has associated codes used for billing. Autism is 299.00. There are corresponding icd codes. I’ve had fights with insurance over which one they prefer…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

again that’s not the freakin’ point. the point was to understand PP’s POV when faced with parents complaining about their extremely high functioning kid.

A kid that needs less help at school, but still assaults their parents and attempts to jump out of a fast-moving car, is having marked difficulties. Parents of these kids often find they cannot share their struggles with NT parents because they don’t get it; and now they should shut up on the SN board because other kids have it worse?

Did PP say you have to shut up on DCUM? PP told you how they feel, which you find unacceptable.

You don't think the poster who said "And yes it's annoying when you complain about your autism diagnosis" is telling some parents that they are not welcome to share? Because that's the implication I got.

[Anonymous]

I have been making this observation for more than 15 years on this board, and the whole "calling everything ASD" craze has only gotten worse. It's ridiculous. I have several friends whose children have severe, specific genetic disorders but were also labeled as ASD, because that's what got them funding for therapies. I was called hysterical, wrong, and told I must be autistic myself by posters on the DCUM.


My child got a differential diagnosis of MERLD (when it was in the DSM), auditory processing difficulties and a learning disorder with anxiety to boot from clinicians trained to tell the difference between different disorders. The school just wanted to call everything autism and shove him in a ASD classroom.

My son was never helped by any autism therapies. He was only helped by those who would follow the recommendations of our language consultants and focus on my kid's core disability: his receptive language issues. He is thriving now, doing much better than the school EVER gave him hope of doing. His language didn't hit the low end of normal range until he was 17! We were told by many school therapists it would never happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yeah, that ASD spectrum thing is BS. Always was.
Also, the ADHD+Dyslexia+high IQ is different from just one of the three.
Come to think of it, so is ADHD with a profoundly high IQ.

You know this is done by a committee right? Stupidest way ever to do it too. Really old white men mostly with a few younger (50s) ppl to round it out. I ran the Autism committee (as a staffer) for this last round when they did the spectrum and the disfunction among these ppl was intense. They should not have been allowed to name a child much less a group of disabilities.

Honestly I wish you’d talk to the New York Times or wapo.
The asd is a spectrum bs is the biggest hustle/ ruse in the history of time. It’s utter laziness and they only get away with it bc as a pp pointed out - ‘social deficits’ is so very subjective and basically covers anyone who isn’t George Clooney level of charming

I'd have to do so on background because I left the field awhile ago so can't claim "expert" on that any more. Upside, I am an expert in other areas of health policy so know how to talk on background.

You should do it on background and pitch the story overall bc the criteria they have given the medical community to determine this disorder is one of the biggest disservices to all impacted individuals in the history of ever and they deserve to be called out.
I feel like in ten years time ‘autism is a spectrum’ will be the new ‘all lives matter’

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yeah, that ASD spectrum thing is BS. Always was.
Also, the ADHD+Dyslexia+high IQ is different from just one of the three.
Come to think of it, so is ADHD with a profoundly high IQ.

You know this is done by a committee right? Stupidest way ever to do it too. Really old white men mostly with a few younger (50s) ppl to round it out. I ran the Autism committee (as a staffer) for this last round when they did the spectrum and the disfunction among these ppl was intense. They should not have been allowed to name a child much less a group of disabilities.

Honestly I wish you’d talk to the New York Times or wapo.
The asd is a spectrum bs is the biggest hustle/ ruse in the history of time. It’s utter laziness and they only get away with it bc as a pp pointed out - ‘social deficits’ is so very subjective and basically covers anyone who isn’t George Clooney level of charming

I'd have to do so on background because I left the field awhile ago so can't claim "expert" on that any more. Upside, I am an expert in other areas of health policy so know how to talk on background.

You should do it on background and pitch the story overall bc the criteria they have given the medical community to determine this disorder is one of the biggest disservices to all impacted individuals in the history of ever and they deserve to be called out.
I feel like in ten years time ‘autism is a spectrum’ will be the new ‘all lives matter’

I think you may be almost alone in this feeling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yeah, that ASD spectrum thing is BS. Always was.
Also, the ADHD+Dyslexia+high IQ is different from just one of the three.
Come to think of it, so is ADHD with a profoundly high IQ.

You know this is done by a committee right? Stupidest way ever to do it too. Really old white men mostly with a few younger (50s) ppl to round it out. I ran the Autism committee (as a staffer) for this last round when they did the spectrum and the disfunction among these ppl was intense. They should not have been allowed to name a child much less a group of disabilities.

Honestly I wish you’d talk to the New York Times or wapo.
The asd is a spectrum bs is the biggest hustle/ ruse in the history of time. It’s utter laziness and they only get away with it bc as a pp pointed out - ‘social deficits’ is so very subjective and basically covers anyone who isn’t George Clooney level of charming

I'd have to do so on background because I left the field awhile ago so can't claim "expert" on that any more. Upside, I am an expert in other areas of health policy so know how to talk on background.

You should do it on background and pitch the story overall bc the criteria they have given the medical community to determine this disorder is one of the biggest disservices to all impacted individuals in the history of ever and they deserve to be called out.
I feel like in ten years time ‘autism is a spectrum’ will be the new ‘all lives matter’

Omg. Try saying that to Black parents of autistic kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason for changing the dsm is not bc it’s annoying for parents of kids who are more profoundly impacted (even though that is a very valid and important conversation).
The reason to change the dsm is that the spectrum narrative is not helpful if the commonalities between individuals are vastly outweighed by the differences.
The purpose of diagnoses are to support research and create communities of people impacted in certain ways so that therapies and medications may be targeted to their issue. The increasing wideness of the spectrum makes this job much harder

That is not the purpose of the DSM. The DSM can be helpful for that but it is primarily for billing codes.

Also if you bump level 1 autism out of the autism category, you need another diagnosis for it because level 1 autism requires specific therapies too.

?? The DSM does not give billing codes. That’s the ICD.

The publisher of the DSM says exactly what PP said:

“ The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is the handbook used by health care professionals in the United States and much of the world as the authoritative guide to the diagnosis of mental disorders. DSM contains descriptions, symptoms and other criteria for diagnosing mental disorders. It provides a common language for clinicians to communicate about their patients and establishes consistent and reliable diagnoses that can be used in research on mental disorders. It also provides a common language for researchers to study the criteria for potential future revisions and to aid in the development of medications and other interventions.”

https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/practice/dsm/frequently-asked-questions

The DSM absolutely has associated codes used for billing. Autism is 299.00. There are corresponding icd codes. I’ve had fights with insurance over which one they prefer…

no, the DSM cross-references ICD. ICD is used for billing. https://www.naswma.org/page/ICD10andDSM5

I think you are probably thinking about ICD9 v ICD10?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

again that’s not the freakin’ point. the point was to understand PP’s POV when faced with parents complaining about their extremely high functioning kid.

A kid that needs less help at school, but still assaults their parents and attempts to jump out of a fast-moving car, is having marked difficulties. Parents of these kids often find they cannot share their struggles with NT parents because they don’t get it; and now they should shut up on the SN board because other kids have it worse?

Did PP say you have to shut up on DCUM? PP told you how they feel, which you find unacceptable.

You don't think the poster who said "And yes it's annoying when you complain about your autism diagnosis" is telling some parents that they are not welcome to share? Because that's the implication I got.

boo hoo? if you don’t have the grace to understand where PP was coming from, I can’t give it to you.