UVA & HS Foreign Language

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Pretty solid consensus that 4 years of language is a clear UVA preference. Follow up question - is it important for your UVA prospects that the fourth year be at the AP level or would Spanish 1 - 4 for example meet the need?

I don’t think there is a clear consensus because some people are defining four years and four years of classes in HS and others are defining it as four years of high school credits (where you could reach level IV of a language before senior year). Our school guidance counselors advise kids that 4 years of credit meats the requirement, so it’s really confusing.

Also since when did WL become a core class?

We were told by a college counselor that WL is a core subject She said the ideal is as to take all 5 core subjects all years of high school or until you exhaust the available classes.

Most families cannot afford a college counselor. Expecting kids and families to know something that goes against high school college counselor’s advice in kind of insane. Just another example of the system favoring those with means.

The PP never said the counselor was private. I read it as public high school college counselor. And we were told the same. DS took four years of foreign language and got into UVA (also no. 1 in his class and 36 ACT)

You call your kids public school guidance counselor a college counselor? Because for most people, a college counselor means a paid, private counselor.

Honestly, if you child was able to have an in depth conversation of this nature with their guidance counselor they are very lucky. A LOT of guidance counselors quit over the pandemic and school are short staffed. Kids are lucky to get 15 minutes with the counselor for college planning, and that is mostly to give out form and re-enforce important deadlines. I think class selection is 5-10 minutes and involves a pre-completed form.

Our FCPS has guidance counselors AND a college counselor.

Our public guidance counselor neglected to inform my kid that switching languages was a bad idea for college apps.

Our college counselor doesn’t see the app until it’s too late.

That’s the problem - MOST kids need to know this by sophomore or junior year when they are selecting classes fro the next year, and very few kids are even going to the school’s college counselor at that point. Heck, most kids aren’t going to Dean J’s blog sophomore year, which is when my kid had to decide whether to pursue AP Latin as a junior.

I think most kids gunning for a T20 know 4 HS foreign language credits is a good thing. But I don’t know that most kids realize UVA considers world language a core course that you need pursue through the AP level. And given the turnover in guidance counselors, I think it’s a lot to even expect them to get good advice on this topic.

I think advice on foreign language for college is pretty basic and I don’t think that’s too much to ask of them. Really basic. I pay a small fortune for a crappy house in an a great pyramid, I shouldn’t have to pay for a private counselor to prevent my kid from making such a basic mistake. My kid thought they were ok because they took “four years of language.” Then came rejections.

So I'm guessing you didn't ask your public high school college counselor this questoin? It is "pretty basic" and everyone here seems to know what the four year requirement is. Or you could call UVA. Or you could look at College Confidential or Reddit. The info is all out there. You don't need to hire a private counselor.

I see you’re eager to blame me instead of the PROFESSIONALS employed to do this exact job. Ok, silly me for not helicoptering and trusting the professionals.

I just googled “UVA high school foreign language requirement “. The first entry (3 seconds max) states that four years of foreign language is “highly recommended”. . Folks, do your homework!

They don’t tell the kids that it has be 4 years of the same language. And when a kid changes mid way, they should have this conversation.

Or you or they could google it or call UVA admissions.

[Anonymous]

My kid went to FCPS high school and took first year of one language and 3 years of another language (3rd level only). Got into UVA and and early action to a HYPSM.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Pretty solid consensus that 4 years of language is a clear UVA preference. Follow up question - is it important for your UVA prospects that the fourth year be at the AP level or would Spanish 1 - 4 for example meet the need?

I don’t think there is a clear consensus because some people are defining four years and four years of classes in HS and others are defining it as four years of high school credits (where you could reach level IV of a language before senior year). Our school guidance counselors advise kids that 4 years of credit meats the requirement, so it’s really confusing.

Also since when did WL become a core class?

We were told by a college counselor that WL is a core subject She said the ideal is as to take all 5 core subjects all years of high school or until you exhaust the available classes.

Most families cannot afford a college counselor. Expecting kids and families to know something that goes against high school college counselor’s advice in kind of insane. Just another example of the system favoring those with means.

The PP never said the counselor was private. I read it as public high school college counselor. And we were told the same. DS took four years of foreign language and got into UVA (also no. 1 in his class and 36 ACT)

You call your kids public school guidance counselor a college counselor? Because for most people, a college counselor means a paid, private counselor.

Honestly, if you child was able to have an in depth conversation of this nature with their guidance counselor they are very lucky. A LOT of guidance counselors quit over the pandemic and school are short staffed. Kids are lucky to get 15 minutes with the counselor for college planning, and that is mostly to give out form and re-enforce important deadlines. I think class selection is 5-10 minutes and involves a pre-completed form.

Our FCPS has guidance counselors AND a college counselor.

Our public guidance counselor neglected to inform my kid that switching languages was a bad idea for college apps.

Our college counselor doesn’t see the app until it’s too late.

That’s the problem - MOST kids need to know this by sophomore or junior year when they are selecting classes fro the next year, and very few kids are even going to the school’s college counselor at that point. Heck, most kids aren’t going to Dean J’s blog sophomore year, which is when my kid had to decide whether to pursue AP Latin as a junior.

I think most kids gunning for a T20 know 4 HS foreign language credits is a good thing. But I don’t know that most kids realize UVA considers world language a core course that you need pursue through the AP level. And given the turnover in guidance counselors, I think it’s a lot to even expect them to get good advice on this topic.

I think advice on foreign language for college is pretty basic and I don’t think that’s too much to ask of them. Really basic. I pay a small fortune for a crappy house in an a great pyramid, I shouldn’t have to pay for a private counselor to prevent my kid from making such a basic mistake. My kid thought they were ok because they took “four years of language.” Then came rejections.

So I'm guessing you didn't ask your public high school college counselor this questoin? It is "pretty basic" and everyone here seems to know what the four year requirement is. Or you could call UVA. Or you could look at College Confidential or Reddit. The info is all out there. You don't need to hire a private counselor.

Kids aren’t looking in these places if they have 4 high school credits by sophomore year and are told by their guidance counselors they can take AP XYZ instead of AP WL.

And to the PP who got three hours with a college counselor at Langley, that is a very nice perk, but I assure you that is not the norm for most large high schools. The 10-15 minutes with a guidance counselor who may be brand new is much more common.

The kids shoukd be asking these questions if the high school COLLEGE counselor, not the guidance counselor, especially if they want to attend an elite school. Princeton was very clear in its expectations when we toured and all of this info is online

They don’t meet with the COLLEGE counselor until it’s too late. I didn’t consider UVA “elite”. We moved here in high school. Princeton and equivalent were never on the list.

You or your student calls or emails the college counselor. They will respond to any student. Or google. Or post your question here. Or call the admissions office if the school your child is interested in. I don’t know how you didn’t know UVA was elite. isn’t UCLA? Berkeley? Michigan? Stop blaming others

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty solid consensus that 4 years of language is a clear UVA preference. Follow up question - is it important for your UVA prospects that the fourth year be at the AP level or would Spanish 1 - 4 for example meet the need?

I don’t think there is a clear consensus because some people are defining four years and four years of classes in HS and others are defining it as four years of high school credits (where you could reach level IV of a language before senior year). Our school guidance counselors advise kids that 4 years of credit meats the requirement, so it’s really confusing.

Also since when did WL become a core class?

We were told by a college counselor that WL is a core subject She said the ideal is as to take all 5 core subjects all years of high school or until you exhaust the available classes.

Most families cannot afford a college counselor. Expecting kids and families to know something that goes against high school college counselor’s advice in kind of insane. Just another example of the system favoring those with means.

The PP never said the counselor was private. I read it as public high school college counselor. And we were told the same. DS took four years of foreign language and got into UVA (also no. 1 in his class and 36 ACT)

You call your kids public school guidance counselor a college counselor? Because for most people, a college counselor means a paid, private counselor.

Honestly, if you child was able to have an in depth conversation of this nature with their guidance counselor they are very lucky. A LOT of guidance counselors quit over the pandemic and school are short staffed. Kids are lucky to get 15 minutes with the counselor for college planning, and that is mostly to give out form and re-enforce important deadlines. I think class selection is 5-10 minutes and involves a pre-completed form.

Our FCPS has guidance counselors AND a college counselor.

Our public guidance counselor neglected to inform my kid that switching languages was a bad idea for college apps.

Our college counselor doesn’t see the app until it’s too late.

That’s the problem - MOST kids need to know this by sophomore or junior year when they are selecting classes fro the next year, and very few kids are even going to the school’s college counselor at that point. Heck, most kids aren’t going to Dean J’s blog sophomore year, which is when my kid had to decide whether to pursue AP Latin as a junior.

I think most kids gunning for a T20 know 4 HS foreign language credits is a good thing. But I don’t know that most kids realize UVA considers world language a core course that you need pursue through the AP level. And given the turnover in guidance counselors, I think it’s a lot to even expect them to get good advice on this topic.

I think advice on foreign language for college is pretty basic and I don’t think that’s too much to ask of them. Really basic. I pay a small fortune for a crappy house in an a great pyramid, I shouldn’t have to pay for a private counselor to prevent my kid from making such a basic mistake. My kid thought they were ok because they took “four years of language.” Then came rejections.

So I'm guessing you didn't ask your public high school college counselor this questoin? It is "pretty basic" and everyone here seems to know what the four year requirement is. Or you could call UVA. Or you could look at College Confidential or Reddit. The info is all out there. You don't need to hire a private counselor.

Kids aren’t looking in these places if they have 4 high school credits by sophomore year and are told by their guidance counselors they can take AP XYZ instead of AP WL.

And to the PP who got three hours with a college counselor at Langley, that is a very nice perk, but I assure you that is not the norm for most large high schools. The 10-15 minutes with a guidance counselor who may be brand new is much more common.

The kids shoukd be asking these questions if the high school COLLEGE counselor, not the guidance counselor, especially if they want to attend an elite school. Princeton was very clear in its expectations when we toured and all of this info is online

They don’t meet with the COLLEGE counselor until it’s too late. I didn’t consider UVA “elite”. We moved here in high school. Princeton and equivalent were never on the list.

You or your student calls or emails the college counselor. They will respond to any student. Or google. Or post your question here. Or call the admissions office if the school your child is interested in. I don’t know how you didn’t know UVA was elite. isn’t UCLA? Berkeley? Michigan? Stop blaming others

PP, are you purposefully obtuse? The point is most kids do not have this on their radar to ask when they very, very briefly plan out classes sophomore (or junior) year and are simultaneously told by a guidance counselor that their schedule is fine. Stop blaming 15-16 year old kids for not knowing better at that point.

My kid chose a language in 6th grade and it was a hard, less popular language. She got to level IV by 10th grade (4 HS credits on her HS transcript) and
decided not to pursue AP in 11th because she hated doing the language by the end of 9th grade and figured she could start over on college. Her guidance counselor said that was fine if replaced by an equally rigorous class, which she did. She has 15 AP credit total, and a couple DE credits. Are you telling me she is to blame for not accepting her guidance counselor’s advice in 10th and should have instead know to go the college counselor (or even crazier, the college itself)?

Moreover, the notion that a kid has to pick a language that young and stick to it at all costs is ridiculous. That alone is a reason why WL should not be considered a core class.

[Anonymous]

I also find that the public HS counselors lean way on the side of never wanting to stress the kids out, so they will never encourage the kids to take more rigorous load than the kid is wanting. In fact, I think they are always encouraging kids NOT to load up on heavy schedule. And then when senior year comes, they tell you just about every school is a reach because you didn't take the most rigorous course load. This is not the case with private HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son is completing his third year of HS Foreign Language as a Sophomore this school year. He is thinking of stopping at three years. He will probably take some AP class of greater interest in its place.

Would only 3 years of Language hurt his chances at UVA admission and how seriously would it hurt? UVA is the most selective college he is likely to apply to. He is tracking towards a decent chance of admission in other ways - GPA, Test Score, Sport & Activities etc.

I’ll offer hope for those w DCs that only take 3 years of a language and are applying for UVA Engineering- my NOVA public school DC did this & was admitted. HS offered more than 3 yrs of the language but DC chose not to take it past level 3. Excellent student & scores (4.3 W, 1570, 8APs) but nothing exceptional about DC’s achievements- no hook, no sports, not URM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also find that the public HS counselors lean way on the side of never wanting to stress the kids out, so they will never encourage the kids to take more rigorous load than the kid is wanting. In fact, I think they are always encouraging kids NOT to load up on heavy schedule. And then when senior year comes, they tell you just about every school is a reach because you didn't take the most rigorous course load. This is not the case with private HS.

THIS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is completing his third year of HS Foreign Language as a Sophomore this school year. He is thinking of stopping at three years. He will probably take some AP class of greater interest in its place.

Would only 3 years of Language hurt his chances at UVA admission and how seriously would it hurt? UVA is the most selective college he is likely to apply to. He is tracking towards a decent chance of admission in other ways - GPA, Test Score, Sport & Activities etc.

I’ll offer hope for those w DCs that only take 3 years of a language and are applying for UVA Engineering- my NOVA public school DC did this & was admitted. HS offered more than 3 yrs of the language but DC chose not to take it past level 3. Excellent student & scores (4.3 W, 1570, 8APs) but nothing exceptional about DC’s achievements- no hook, no sports, not URM.

Your DC’s achievements sound exceptional to me. I hope you let them know what an amazing applicant they are. Those are amazing scores and gpa and lots of aps.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately the Virginia HS Advanced Diploma Standards and UVA HS Course Standards are different for Language (3 yrs vs 4 yrs). Many of the Counselors and Students are tracking to the Advanced Diploma standard. It would be good if the Counselors would give the high GPA students a heads up on Language and that you may very well be killing options by stopping but that doesn’t happen. The main thing from Counselors that I hear second hand is telling students to dial down APs and level of difficulty. Given we are in Virginia - I would think the Counselors would be more tuned into UVA expectations.

[Anonymous]

Counselors are also probably concerned about mental health of students. I think they have been instructed to tone it down a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also find that the public HS counselors lean way on the side of never wanting to stress the kids out, so they will never encourage the kids to take more rigorous load than the kid is wanting. In fact, I think they are always encouraging kids NOT to load up on heavy schedule. And then when senior year comes, they tell you just about every school is a reach because you didn't take the most rigorous course load. This is not the case with private HS.

Our private HS is the same and the college counselor told him he could stop at 3 years of language (he’s top of the class; 35 act applying to selective colleges). Even the Princeton review college guide shows most of those schools want 4 years of foreign language.

My kid was also given poor advice freshmen year about waiting to start the honors science class while not being told that all honors science needed to be taken before AP science.

You learn the hard way to listen to yourself and do your own research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty solid consensus that 4 years of language is a clear UVA preference. Follow up question - is it important for your UVA prospects that the fourth year be at the AP level or would Spanish 1 - 4 for example meet the need?

I don’t think there is a clear consensus because some people are defining four years and four years of classes in HS and others are defining it as four years of high school credits (where you could reach level IV of a language before senior year). Our school guidance counselors advise kids that 4 years of credit meats the requirement, so it’s really confusing.

Also since when did WL become a core class?

We were told by a college counselor that WL is a core subject She said the ideal is as to take all 5 core subjects all years of high school or until you exhaust the available classes.

Most families cannot afford a college counselor. Expecting kids and families to know something that goes against high school college counselor’s advice in kind of insane. Just another example of the system favoring those with means.

The PP never said the counselor was private. I read it as public high school college counselor. And we were told the same. DS took four years of foreign language and got into UVA (also no. 1 in his class and 36 ACT)

You call your kids public school guidance counselor a college counselor? Because for most people, a college counselor means a paid, private counselor.

Honestly, if you child was able to have an in depth conversation of this nature with their guidance counselor they are very lucky. A LOT of guidance counselors quit over the pandemic and school are short staffed. Kids are lucky to get 15 minutes with the counselor for college planning, and that is mostly to give out form and re-enforce important deadlines. I think class selection is 5-10 minutes and involves a pre-completed form.

Our FCPS has guidance counselors AND a college counselor.

Our public guidance counselor neglected to inform my kid that switching languages was a bad idea for college apps.

Our college counselor doesn’t see the app until it’s too late.

That’s the problem - MOST kids need to know this by sophomore or junior year when they are selecting classes fro the next year, and very few kids are even going to the school’s college counselor at that point. Heck, most kids aren’t going to Dean J’s blog sophomore year, which is when my kid had to decide whether to pursue AP Latin as a junior.

I think most kids gunning for a T20 know 4 HS foreign language credits is a good thing. But I don’t know that most kids realize UVA considers world language a core course that you need pursue through the AP level. And given the turnover in guidance counselors, I think it’s a lot to even expect them to get good advice on this topic.

I think advice on foreign language for college is pretty basic and I don’t think that’s too much to ask of them. Really basic. I pay a small fortune for a crappy house in an a great pyramid, I shouldn’t have to pay for a private counselor to prevent my kid from making such a basic mistake. My kid thought they were ok because they took “four years of language.” Then came rejections.

So I'm guessing you didn't ask your public high school college counselor this questoin? It is "pretty basic" and everyone here seems to know what the four year requirement is. Or you could call UVA. Or you could look at College Confidential or Reddit. The info is all out there. You don't need to hire a private counselor.

Kids aren’t looking in these places if they have 4 high school credits by sophomore year and are told by their guidance counselors they can take AP XYZ instead of AP WL.

And to the PP who got three hours with a college counselor at Langley, that is a very nice perk, but I assure you that is not the norm for most large high schools. The 10-15 minutes with a guidance counselor who may be brand new is much more common.

The kids shoukd be asking these questions if the high school COLLEGE counselor, not the guidance counselor, especially if they want to attend an elite school. Princeton was very clear in its expectations when we toured and all of this info is online

They don’t meet with the COLLEGE counselor until it’s too late. I didn’t consider UVA “elite”. We moved here in high school. Princeton and equivalent were never on the list.

It is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is completing his third year of HS Foreign Language as a Sophomore this school year. He is thinking of stopping at three years. He will probably take some AP class of greater interest in its place.

Would only 3 years of Language hurt his chances at UVA admission and how seriously would it hurt? UVA is the most selective college he is likely to apply to. He is tracking towards a decent chance of admission in other ways - GPA, Test Score, Sport & Activities etc.

I’ll offer hope for those w DCs that only take 3 years of a language and are applying for UVA Engineering- my NOVA public school DC did this & was admitted. HS offered more than 3 yrs of the language but DC chose not to take it past level 3. Excellent student & scores (4.3 W, 1570, 8APs) but nothing exceptional about DC’s achievements- no hook, no sports, not URM.

But that’s applying to UVA engineering, which is a definitely a different kettle of fish than a standard application for which “four years of WL is strongly recommended”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also find that the public HS counselors lean way on the side of never wanting to stress the kids out, so they will never encourage the kids to take more rigorous load than the kid is wanting. In fact, I think they are always encouraging kids NOT to load up on heavy schedule. And then when senior year comes, they tell you just about every school is a reach because you didn't take the most rigorous course load. This is not the case with private HS.

Our experience too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the Virginia HS Advanced Diploma Standards and UVA HS Course Standards are different for Language (3 yrs vs 4 yrs). Many of the Counselors and Students are tracking to the Advanced Diploma standard. It would be good if the Counselors would give the high GPA students a heads up on Language and that you may very well be killing options by stopping but that doesn’t happen. The main thing from Counselors that I hear second hand is telling students to dial down APs and level of difficulty. Given we are in Virginia - I would think the Counselors would be more tuned into UVA expectations.

Exactly. This is such a reasonable response.