UVA & HS Foreign Language

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I also find that the public HS counselors lean way on the side of never wanting to stress the kids out, so they will never encourage the kids to take more rigorous load than the kid is wanting. In fact, I think they are always encouraging kids NOT to load up on heavy schedule. And then when senior year comes, they tell you just about every school is a reach because you didn't take the most rigorous course load. This is not the case with private HS.

Our experience too.

You should be asking these questions of the high school college counselor, not the regular guidance counselor

[b]They don’t see the college counselor until it’s too late. There should some basic planning in 9th grade- or when a new kid arrives from out of state- that includes this information so they are making informed choices. Like PP said, 3 years needed for “advanced degree”. And you might hear “4 years” but it’s never “of the same language, ideally including an AP in that language”.

If it’s too much to ask, then stop telling parents to let their kids take control of their classes and college applications. If I have to rely on Reddit threads to fill in gaps, that’’s beyond negligence on the school’s part. But like multiple PPs have said, they’re so afraid of pressure, they’re not even having honest talks with them. That’s not helpful either. It let’s kids down and encourages the helicoptering they claim is so damaging.

In a perfect world you might be correct. But you don't live in a perfect world. And you are in a large public school. You misjudged the situation and you are trying to blame the system for your own failures. Most parents engage early on in the college process. They read books - a lot have been mentioned right here in old threads. I read "What your college advisor won't tell you" and learned from that that Boys State and Boys Nations are considered to be big deals by colleges. So I got working and my son did both and got a massive scholarship and into top schools. I educated myself. I didn't ever think the public counselor, nay even college advisor, had the time to address all the issues my kids might be facing.

When in your life do you NOT prepare for a decision that might cost your family anywhere between $120K and $$360K? College is the SECOND most costly investment your family might make after a large mortgage, especially if you have multiple kids. You do NOT leave this to the high school's "guidance counselors" which is what you did. I'm sorry you didn't think this through but you and DH should have been on top of this from freshman year on and reading books, starting tours, watching podcasts, reading College Confidential, reading here, reading Reddit and asking questions of your high school college counselor - who will most certainly talk to you and your son and answer emails. That is their job. Just because THEY don't reach out until junior year doesn't mean that you can't approach them.

In the internet world, your child could have googled "UVA foreign language requirement" and learned within 3 seconds that UVA recommends four years, as do the top SLACs. To now blame a "guidance" counselor for suggesting whatever YOUR KID wanted to hear is just wrong. I am posting in the hopes that other parents see this and don't make the same mistake. YOU, as parents, need to be involved. This is a HUGE investment of time and money and you need to know what you are doing. if you don't have the time to do this, hire a private counselor. Some are by the hour and reasonably priced. But never rely on what "guidance counselors" have to say about college admissions. Go to your high school college counselor if you have a college-related question. How is this difficult?

With all this lecturing you still made the same mistake. You said “four years of language”. It’s four years of the SAME language. The day I consider college confidential and Reddit reliable information and “research” is a cold day in hell.

No, I addressed your issue which is you didn't do your homework. Actually, UVA doesn't address the four years of SAME language, as you insist, although they do want to see depth and rigor so one would naturally conclude that jumping around to four different languages doesn't make sense, especially since you have to do two more years of WL at UVA. Here, for example, is Dean J on precisely the language requirement. UVA considers it part of the core, and, as such, wants to see as much rigor in foreign language (AP level and beyond if your kid can swing it) as possible. Some students do five or more years. I know one student who did a second language after completing the four years by taking a second language at a community college after school. That's the kind of initiative and drive UVA wants to see. Not students who drop core subjects.


Dear J from her blog

1. All of your core classes are important.
A lot of people focus on the core areas that correspond to their current academic interest. I've even had people wave off certain subjects because they aren't interested in them or they don't come "naturally" to them. I wish they'd stop this. High school is the time to get a broad foundation in several areas and college is the time to specialize. We most concerned with a student's work in core areas (in alpha order, not order of importance): English, Math, Science, Social Science, and World Language.

All you had to do was google this just as I just did.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Pretty solid consensus that 4 years of language is a clear UVA preference. Follow up question - is it important for your UVA prospects that the fourth year be at the AP level or would Spanish 1 - 4 for example meet the need?

I don’t think there is a clear consensus because some people are defining four years and four years of classes in HS and others are defining it as four years of high school credits (where you could reach level IV of a language before senior year). Our school guidance counselors advise kids that 4 years of credit meats the requirement, so it’s really confusing.

Also since when did WL become a core class?

We were told by a college counselor that WL is a core subject She said the ideal is as to take all 5 core subjects all years of high school or until you exhaust the available classes.

Most families cannot afford a college counselor. Expecting kids and families to know something that goes against high school college counselor’s advice in kind of insane. Just another example of the system favoring those with means.

The PP never said the counselor was private. I read it as public high school college counselor. And we were told the same. DS took four years of foreign language and got into UVA (also no. 1 in his class and 36 ACT)

You call your kids public school guidance counselor a college counselor? Because for most people, a college counselor means a paid, private counselor.

Honestly, if you child was able to have an in depth conversation of this nature with their guidance counselor they are very lucky. A LOT of guidance counselors quit over the pandemic and school are short staffed. Kids are lucky to get 15 minutes with the counselor for college planning, and that is mostly to give out form and re-enforce important deadlines. I think class selection is 5-10 minutes and involves a pre-completed form.

Our FCPS has guidance counselors AND a college counselor.

Our public guidance counselor neglected to inform my kid that switching languages was a bad idea for college apps.

Our college counselor doesn’t see the app until it’s too late.

That’s the problem - MOST kids need to know this by sophomore or junior year when they are selecting classes fro the next year, and very few kids are even going to the school’s college counselor at that point. Heck, most kids aren’t going to Dean J’s blog sophomore year, which is when my kid had to decide whether to pursue AP Latin as a junior.

I think most kids gunning for a T20 know 4 HS foreign language credits is a good thing. But I don’t know that most kids realize UVA considers world language a core course that you need pursue through the AP level. And given the turnover in guidance counselors, I think it’s a lot to even expect them to get good advice on this topic.

I think advice on foreign language for college is pretty basic and I don’t think that’s too much to ask of them. Really basic. I pay a small fortune for a crappy house in an a great pyramid, I shouldn’t have to pay for a private counselor to prevent my kid from making such a basic mistake. My kid thought they were ok because they took “four years of language.” Then came rejections.

So I'm guessing you didn't ask your public high school college counselor this questoin? It is "pretty basic" and everyone here seems to know what the four year requirement is. Or you could call UVA. Or you could look at College Confidential or Reddit. The info is all out there. You don't need to hire a private counselor.

Kids aren’t looking in these places if they have 4 high school credits by sophomore year and are told by their guidance counselors they can take AP XYZ instead of AP WL.

And to the PP who got three hours with a college counselor at Langley, that is a very nice perk, but I assure you that is not the norm for most large high schools. The 10-15 minutes with a guidance counselor who may be brand new is much more common.

The kids shoukd be asking these questions if the high school COLLEGE counselor, not the guidance counselor, especially if they want to attend an elite school. Princeton was very clear in its expectations when we toured and all of this info is online

They don’t meet with the COLLEGE counselor until it’s too late. I didn’t consider UVA “elite”. We moved here in high school. Princeton and equivalent were never on the list.

It is not.

Your kid has a 4.53 gpa, a 34 ACT or 1520 SAT and extraordinary ECs? That’s what the 75th percentile of enrolled (not admitted, enrolled) students at UVA had last year.

Higher than that - why do you ask?

It's obvious why I asked. Because UVA has become very elite. It's become almost impossible to get in. And you would know that if your kids did have stats higher than the 75th percentile because you would be telling me right now if they had gotten in SCEA, ED and EA and you did not. Also, very very feew kids have a 4.53 when they actually apply to college, which you have not done yet. Anyhow, good luck with the "more elite" schools next year or the year after - my "higher stats" (like yours) kid was deferred at Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Cornell, etc. and then waitlisted. He was thrilled to go to UVA and especially thrilled because he knew what a financial struggle it would have been for us to have managed the privates. And, in the future, a little reading up on the system and a little humility might suit you.

My, what a defensive answer to your own question - but you still do not know why I did not answer you. LOL.

Keep talking about humility, though.......

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Pretty solid consensus that 4 years of language is a clear UVA preference. Follow up question - is it important for your UVA prospects that the fourth year be at the AP level or would Spanish 1 - 4 for example meet the need?

I don’t think there is a clear consensus because some people are defining four years and four years of classes in HS and others are defining it as four years of high school credits (where you could reach level IV of a language before senior year). Our school guidance counselors advise kids that 4 years of credit meats the requirement, so it’s really confusing.

Also since when did WL become a core class?

We were told by a college counselor that WL is a core subject She said the ideal is as to take all 5 core subjects all years of high school or until you exhaust the available classes.

Most families cannot afford a college counselor. Expecting kids and families to know something that goes against high school college counselor’s advice in kind of insane. Just another example of the system favoring those with means.

The PP never said the counselor was private. I read it as public high school college counselor. And we were told the same. DS took four years of foreign language and got into UVA (also no. 1 in his class and 36 ACT)

You call your kids public school guidance counselor a college counselor? Because for most people, a college counselor means a paid, private counselor.

Honestly, if you child was able to have an in depth conversation of this nature with their guidance counselor they are very lucky. A LOT of guidance counselors quit over the pandemic and school are short staffed. Kids are lucky to get 15 minutes with the counselor for college planning, and that is mostly to give out form and re-enforce important deadlines. I think class selection is 5-10 minutes and involves a pre-completed form.

Our FCPS has guidance counselors AND a college counselor.

Our public guidance counselor neglected to inform my kid that switching languages was a bad idea for college apps.

Our college counselor doesn’t see the app until it’s too late.

That’s the problem - MOST kids need to know this by sophomore or junior year when they are selecting classes fro the next year, and very few kids are even going to the school’s college counselor at that point. Heck, most kids aren’t going to Dean J’s blog sophomore year, which is when my kid had to decide whether to pursue AP Latin as a junior.

I think most kids gunning for a T20 know 4 HS foreign language credits is a good thing. But I don’t know that most kids realize UVA considers world language a core course that you need pursue through the AP level. And given the turnover in guidance counselors, I think it’s a lot to even expect them to get good advice on this topic.

I think advice on foreign language for college is pretty basic and I don’t think that’s too much to ask of them. Really basic. I pay a small fortune for a crappy house in an a great pyramid, I shouldn’t have to pay for a private counselor to prevent my kid from making such a basic mistake. My kid thought they were ok because they took “four years of language.” Then came rejections.

So I'm guessing you didn't ask your public high school college counselor this questoin? It is "pretty basic" and everyone here seems to know what the four year requirement is. Or you could call UVA. Or you could look at College Confidential or Reddit. The info is all out there. You don't need to hire a private counselor.

Kids aren’t looking in these places if they have 4 high school credits by sophomore year and are told by their guidance counselors they can take AP XYZ instead of AP WL.

And to the PP who got three hours with a college counselor at Langley, that is a very nice perk, but I assure you that is not the norm for most large high schools. The 10-15 minutes with a guidance counselor who may be brand new is much more common.

The kids shoukd be asking these questions if the high school COLLEGE counselor, not the guidance counselor, especially if they want to attend an elite school. Princeton was very clear in its expectations when we toured and all of this info is online

They don’t meet with the COLLEGE counselor until it’s too late. I didn’t consider UVA “elite”. We moved here in high school. Princeton and equivalent were never on the list.

It is not.

Your kid has a 4.53 gpa, a 34 ACT or 1520 SAT and extraordinary ECs? That’s what the 75th percentile of enrolled (not admitted, enrolled) students at UVA had last year.

Higher than that - why do you ask?

It's obvious why I asked. Because UVA has become very elite. It's become almost impossible to get in. And you would know that if your kids did have stats higher than the 75th percentile because you would be telling me right now if they had gotten in SCEA, ED and EA and you did not. Also, very very feew kids have a 4.53 when they actually apply to college, which you have not done yet. Anyhow, good luck with the "more elite" schools next year or the year after - my "higher stats" (like yours) kid was deferred at Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Cornell, etc. and then waitlisted. He was thrilled to go to UVA and especially thrilled because he knew what a financial struggle it would have been for us to have managed the privates. And, in the future, a little reading up on the system and a little humility might suit you.

My, what a defensive answer to your own question - but you still do not know why I did not answer you. LOL.

Keep talking about humility, though.......

I agree. You lied.

[Anonymous]

If a kid has been raised in a bi-lingual house and speaks another language fluently (Eastern European language), is that something that can be highlighted in the application process? The kid travels to Europe almost every year to see his distant family and grandparents and has done very well using the language. Did just three years of another language in HS but is planning to focus on other classes during his senior year next year.

[Anonymous]

I would say to highlight your child’s ability in Eastern European language somewhere on application, but still take that fourth year of WL at high school.