3 new language immersion schools next year

[Anonymous]

You think this is a... bad thing for your English-speaking kids? I've been half-tempted to move to get mine into a dual immersion program. Learning a language and becoming bilingual is such an amazing life skill! (And to get to do it in your own neighborhood school rather than being bussed to some far-away immersion program with kids who are scattered all over the place! And to not have to feel bad about scooping up the bilingual teachers for English-speaking kids but instead knowing Spanish-speaking kids get to benefit too!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would you be as against it if the language was French?

Absolutely! MCPS is failing my child and every other child with their poor curriculum choices in English and inadequate staffing. Adding any other language just makes it worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should just offer a language class a few days a week like they so specials but more often for all kids.

This. It would make more sense to do it this way. Friends in other states start a second language in 1st grade as a ‘special’ and it works well.

+1. It’s all or nothing in MCPS.

No, that would only benefit the English-speaking kids. One of the strengths of dual immersion is that native Spanish speakers get half of their day in their native language. So everyone gets to become strong both on their native language and a second language.

But how does it help any of these children pass the standardized tests that MCPS keeps failing? It doesn’t! There is zero research to back this up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should just offer a language class a few days a week like they so specials but more often for all kids.

This. It would make more sense to do it this way. Friends in other states start a second language in 1st grade as a ‘special’ and it works well.

+1. It’s all or nothing in MCPS.

No, that would only benefit the English-speaking kids. One of the strengths of dual immersion is that native Spanish speakers get half of their day in their native language. So everyone gets to become strong both on their native language and a second language.

It’s really important for the Spanish-speaking kids with limited English to keep up in math and other subjects. It’s more accessible to them when taught in Spanish. This keeps them caught up on other subjects while their language skills catch up. For English speakers who are advanced students, it’s a good challenge to keep them engaged. I’m not sure where all those parents of advanced kids are on this thread. It’s like they disappeared with their 99% MAP scores. I do agree it can be less than ideal for English speakers who are struggling with literacy. I wonder if offering a couple mixed-grade English only classes at these schools would be an option (e.g., K-1, 2-3, and 4-5).

But all of the standardized tests are in English so your logic doesn’t hold up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should just offer a language class a few days a week like they so specials but more often for all kids.

That’s not really the point of these programs though- a big part of it is being inclusive for native-Spanish speakers. They get to learn in both Spanish and English. So a special a couple times a week wouldn’t really benefit them.

I get what you’re saying though- it’s very common in European countries for primary school kids to receive instruction in English and other languages several times per week. They pick it up so much faster at that age.

It's kind of a chicken-egg effect though. In general, language instruction in this country is not conducive to producing proficient bilingual speakers. Of those I know who are proficient in a second language, all either were born or lived in a foreign country or had a parent who spoke their native language at home. So there aren't enough kids choosing this path in college and becoming foreign language teachers. Where would MCPS find all the teachers to offer even limited instruction at all schools? Maybe more immersion opportunities will inspire more students to follow that path.

Not to mention, we need to spend more time on reading and math in this country than our European counterparts because Americans have fallen behind.

You understand that reading and math are both taught in the immersion language at an immersion school in MCPS?

Yes, but the standardized test are only in English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is sometimes not heard are the voices of the Spanish speaking families. Many of them do NOT want immersion classes. They want their kids learning English and learning to read and write well in English. I don’t know why there can’t be a program for heritage speakers in elementary school where they learn in English and then get extra clases for 30 minutes several times a week to learn in Spanish. During this time non English speaking students learn Spanish.

Many of these immersion programs exploit Spanish speakers. They aren’t developed to be in their best interest. It’s fir the interest of the well off English speaking kids.

Yes! It’s used a ploy to keep the wealthy white families (with high test scores) to stay in MCPS. Joke is on MCPS because many of those wealthy families want smaller class sizes than MCPS can offer and they still get their second language as a biweekly special starting in preK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You think this is a... bad thing for your English-speaking kids? I've been half-tempted to move to get mine into a dual immersion program. Learning a language and becoming bilingual is such an amazing life skill! (And to get to do it in your own neighborhood school rather than being bussed to some far-away immersion program with kids who are scattered all over the place! And to not have to feel bad about scooping up the bilingual teachers for English-speaking kids but instead knowing Spanish-speaking kids get to benefit too!)

My English speaking child can’t read or write on par with MCPS standards. Any second language will just make things worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should just offer a language class a few days a week like they so specials but more often for all kids.

This. It would make more sense to do it this way. Friends in other states start a second language in 1st grade as a ‘special’ and it works well.

+1. It’s all or nothing in MCPS.

No, that would only benefit the English-speaking kids. One of the strengths of dual immersion is that native Spanish speakers get half of their day in their native language. So everyone gets to become strong both on their native language and a second language.

It’s really important for the Spanish-speaking kids with limited English to keep up in math and other subjects. It’s more accessible to them when taught in Spanish. This keeps them caught up on other subjects while their language skills catch up. For English speakers who are advanced students, it’s a good challenge to keep them engaged. I’m not sure where all those parents of advanced kids are on this thread. It’s like they disappeared with their 99% MAP scores. I do agree it can be less than ideal for English speakers who are struggling with literacy. I wonder if offering a couple mixed-grade English only classes at these schools would be an option (e.g., K-1, 2-3, and 4-5).

But all of the standardized tests are in English so your logic doesn’t hold up

Why would the standardized tests be the priority for parents over actual learning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Good luck finding qualified teachers for 3 more schools.

Well, they just need to find bilingual teachers for one grade per school. Not a huge lift.

We were at one dual language school, and lots of teachers were mid-career professionals from PR. They had experience teaching, skills in both languages/cultures, and it was a pretty easy shift.

Yes, many of the teachers are from PR. Since hurricane Maria especially, a lot of Puerto Ricans have decided to leave for the mainland.

However, for these programs to work long term, there needs to be more training opportunities at US colleges for teaching ES in Spanish. We can’t rely solely on recruiting teachers from elsewhere.

PR is the US.

This. It’s all or nothing.

Well ok I should have said universities besides those in PR. Better? My point is that teaching reading and math in Spanish is different than teaching Spanish to high school students, and most Spanish teachers are trained for the latter. Don’t get me wrong, I think we need more immersion programs, but in order for them to expand significantly we need more teachers trained to staff them.

For some kids, it is a great opportunity, others not so much. It would make more sense to have a specials class 2-3 days a week instead. Kids can take foreign language starting in MS.

I do wish there were more opportunities for kids at non-immersion schools to get some foreign language instruction in ES. My sister and her family recently returned from an overseas posting where the kids received French lessons 3x per week at their international primary school (not a French speaking country). The oldest then entered middle school here and had a leg up in their French class. Early exposure is key to picking up a language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you be as against it if the language was French?

Absolutely! MCPS is failing my child and every other child with their poor curriculum choices in English and inadequate staffing. Adding any other language just makes it worse.

By this logic, MCPS should just stop teaching altogether and make everything perfect!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They don’t have enough teachers. That’s a problem. At the schools that have it, they have already had to hire teachers who spoke the language but had no certification. I’m concerned that they are expanding on a program without the resources needed to make it successful.

This. Definitely a concern. MCPS has a history of rolling out half-baked programs without the resources to go along with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fear mongering in this thread is incredible.

My kid is at OTES and we are thrilled with the two-way immersion. We need a bigger house but we're staying for the school.

If it wasn't going well (and this happens for very, very few kids, it is by no means hit or miss) there's an alternative English-only school we could go to.

It's great that they're expanding this, actually.

MCPS has been teaching reading wrong for at least 15 years according to the current Elem ELA director. I guarantee doing in 2 languages just makes it worse for kids who only speak English. My kid has dyslexia and dysgraphia. Our Title 1 school can’t follow her IEP as it is. Making the school an immersion school just complicates the issue.

It is not only MCPS that has been teaching reading wrong: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fopen.spotify.com%2Fshow%2F0tcUMXBFMGMe8w79MM5QCI%3Fsi%3DT8EpfD7zT3OS9ynw210NNQ%26fbclid%3DIwAR0rtVl91orTSiRW7DKEIIrL1a_HWdxlZbKEGQQ5_-PjYB3UDEwiYVA8iFE&h=AT2RtJcw0UQ1kP-9A1UBGY5AdbKmXPLivij-pRyK-gi-rPLge0vc5OxFUsGMpbvtOKwvW-9FJAIOzHZlOiO0dTEKXKCvRElGO8nsxX3ymM8jxech7zOUJ_byTTgN8Wsvmw&__tn__=%2CmH-R&c[0]=AT3SxSAb8SHLhw77FsjwfOAPpDWl2YzV7vYP0Yvqwu5UrLzydJ7l3ADSMEkSBf1VX5z9qKNkY9W-FqVEYujAvOZZnxdbDJTdTTaddWuqtctmOFFXfpADQDbA6VD6acA6PnOiQkSIbcVLpUKgxLHU7lIYUwUPsPH3fa0V2idTsycacvPSvEeFGA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fear mongering in this thread is incredible.

My kid is at OTES and we are thrilled with the two-way immersion. We need a bigger house but we're staying for the school.

If it wasn't going well (and this happens for very, very few kids, it is by no means hit or miss) there's an alternative English-only school we could go to.

It's great that they're expanding this, actually.

MCPS has been teaching reading wrong for at least 15 years according to the current Elem ELA director. I guarantee doing in 2 languages just makes it worse for kids who only speak English. My kid has dyslexia and dysgraphia. Our Title 1 school can’t follow her IEP as it is. Making the school an immersion school just complicates the issue.

It is not only MCPS that has been teaching reading wrong: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fopen.spotify.com%2Fshow%2F0tcUMXBFMGMe8w79MM5QCI%3Fsi%3DT8EpfD7zT3OS9ynw210NNQ%26fbclid%3DIwAR0rtVl91orTSiRW7DKEIIrL1a_HWdxlZbKEGQQ5_-PjYB3UDEwiYVA8iFE&h=AT2RtJcw0UQ1kP-9A1UBGY5AdbKmXPLivij-pRyK-gi-rPLge0vc5OxFUsGMpbvtOKwvW-9FJAIOzHZlOiO0dTEKXKCvRElGO8nsxX3ymM8jxech7zOUJ_byTTgN8Wsvmw&__tn__=%2CmH-R&c[0]=AT3SxSAb8SHLhw77FsjwfOAPpDWl2YzV7vYP0Yvqwu5UrLzydJ7l3ADSMEkSBf1VX5z9qKNkY9W-FqVEYujAvOZZnxdbDJTdTTaddWuqtctmOFFXfpADQDbA6VD6acA6PnOiQkSIbcVLpUKgxLHU7lIYUwUPsPH3fa0V2idTsycacvPSvEeFGA

Sorry, link went wrong: https://open.spotify.com/show/0tcUMXBFMGMe8w79MM5QCI?si=T8EpfD7zT3OS9ynw210NNQ&fbclid=IwAR10FbH7xY_gYxb7we8_L6bgPjpf0ghNZF1VdB92Xe0WLVt02Cg8ZkIlQKw&nd=1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you be as against it if the language was French?

Is there a large enough french speaking population at any school to justify it? I think the dual-immersion program makes perfect sense for Spanish as many schools have a large % of native-Spanish speakers and, after English, it's the most common language spoken in this country. Spanish is required for more and more jobs.

Less common languages like French and Chinese seem more appropriate as opt-in immersion programs rather than moving an entire school to a dual-immersion model. JMO.

Because we've decided that it is OK for people "moving" here to learn English. Accommodation rather than assimilation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good luck finding qualified teachers for 3 more schools.

Yeah they would have to transfer any monolingual teachers right?