3 new language immersion schools next year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Call it what it actually is: a gimmick.

IDK. Our third-grader is fluent in a language no one else in our family has spoken for generations. Doesn’t seem like a gimmick to me!

And what did they miss learning in English? It catches up with them in middle school.

IDK, but I doubt it's going to pose a problem we can't handle.

Appreciate the concern, ofc.

We already can’t handle the number of English speaking kids failing standardized tests in middle school. A second language won’t make it any better. Show any data that shows language immersion at the elementary level helping native English speakers do better on all of the required standardized tests. You won’t find any.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Studies show that in early elementary, kids in immersion tend to be behind their peers in ELA. Not surprising since less ELA exposure.

But by upper elementary, these kids catch up and then pass their non-immersion peers.

Above is the overall trend. Of course each kid is different and some may not fall in that majority group.

Yes, this. The concern about children falling behind in English (long term) if they devote too much time to a second language in the early years is very …. 1970s. And debunked.

Then share the data that proves this point. MCPS students have been falling further and further behind in math and reading (started before the pandemic). Show any research that proves immersion programs will increase these test scores. MCPS wants to be all about the data except when it suits them to do something else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Call it what it actually is: a gimmick.

IDK. Our third-grader is fluent in a language no one else in our family has spoken for generations. Doesn’t seem like a gimmick to me!

And what did they miss learning in English? It catches up with them in middle school.

Our 3rd grader is the same. Didn’t miss anything in English, above grade level.

The English is too easy and slow and he doesn’t need as much repetitive exposure as kids who are on or below grade level. He can spend that time learning another language.

School comes easy and the “hard” subject for him is the language.

MCPS stopped teaching basics like grammar, spelling, and vocabulary. That's why it's easy.

They are all taught in immersion!

In English? Then why are those kids still failing reading tests?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Call it what it actually is: a gimmick.

IDK. Our third-grader is fluent in a language no one else in our family has spoken for generations. Doesn’t seem like a gimmick to me!

And what did they miss learning in English? It catches up with them in middle school.

Our 3rd grader is the same. Didn’t miss anything in English, above grade level.

The English is too easy and slow and he doesn’t need as much repetitive exposure as kids who are on or below grade level. He can spend that time learning another language.

School comes easy and the “hard” subject for him is the language.

MCPS stopped teaching basics like grammar, spelling, and vocabulary. That's why it's easy.

They are all taught in immersion!

In English? Then why are those kids still failing reading tests?

Are you sure they are? At the population level, are you sure that kids who speak English at home are failing reading tests? I haven't seen any data along those lines. What I've seen is that the share of kids in MCPS who are English learners has grown, which has brought down average test scores. But if you have data that shows that native English speakers are dropping, feel free to share it.

On the other hand, there are randomized studies that show native English speaking kids in bilingual classrooms outperform their peers educated in English only. https://cdnprodwp.avantassessment.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/RANDStudyonPPSImmersionProgram.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Call it what it actually is: a gimmick.

IDK. Our third-grader is fluent in a language no one else in our family has spoken for generations. Doesn’t seem like a gimmick to me!

And what did they miss learning in English? It catches up with them in middle school.

IDK, but I doubt it's going to pose a problem we can't handle.

Appreciate the concern, ofc.

We already can’t handle the number of English speaking kids failing standardized tests in middle school. A second language won’t make it any better. Show any data that shows language immersion at the elementary level helping native English speakers do better on all of the required standardized tests. You won’t find any.

I know that the required standardized tests are garbage, so none of that is of interest to me. Good luck in your campaigning about it tho!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Studies show that in early elementary, kids in immersion tend to be behind their peers in ELA. Not surprising since less ELA exposure.

But by upper elementary, these kids catch up and then pass their non-immersion peers.

Above is the overall trend. Of course each kid is different and some may not fall in that majority group.

Yes, this. The concern about children falling behind in English (long term) if they devote too much time to a second language in the early years is very …. 1970s. And debunked.

Then share the data that proves this point. MCPS students have been falling further and further behind in math and reading (started before the pandemic). Show any research that proves immersion programs will increase these test scores. MCPS wants to be all about the data except when it suits them to do something else.

What MCPS needs to improve reading scores is an actual proven curriculum aligned with the science of reading. As long as they keep choosing crappy curriculums, doesn’t matter what language it’s in, reading scores will never improve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Call it what it actually is: a gimmick.

IDK. Our third-grader is fluent in a language no one else in our family has spoken for generations. Doesn’t seem like a gimmick to me!

And what did they miss learning in English? It catches up with them in middle school.

IDK, but I doubt it's going to pose a problem we can't handle.

Appreciate the concern, ofc.

We already can’t handle the number of English speaking kids failing standardized tests in middle school. A second language won’t make it any better. Show any data that shows language immersion at the elementary level helping native English speakers do better on all of the required standardized tests. You won’t find any.

THIS

We have data that shows how poorly our students are currently doing. Instead of trying to improve that, MCPS is throwing out poorly-thought out gimmicks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Studies show that in early elementary, kids in immersion tend to be behind their peers in ELA. Not surprising since less ELA exposure.

But by upper elementary, these kids catch up and then pass their non-immersion peers.

Above is the overall trend. Of course each kid is different and some may not fall in that majority group.

Yes, this. The concern about children falling behind in English (long term) if they devote too much time to a second language in the early years is very …. 1970s. And debunked.

Then share the data that proves this point. MCPS students have been falling further and further behind in math and reading (started before the pandemic). Show any research that proves immersion programs will increase these test scores. MCPS wants to be all about the data except when it suits them to do something else.

What MCPS needs to improve reading scores is an actual proven curriculum aligned with the science of reading. As long as they keep choosing crappy curriculums, doesn’t matter what language it’s in, reading scores will never improve.

I guess you missed where MCPS has done just this for K-2 and is investing in LETRS training. Not to mention expanding SLC to schools that are not CES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Studies show that in early elementary, kids in immersion tend to be behind their peers in ELA. Not surprising since less ELA exposure.

But by upper elementary, these kids catch up and then pass their non-immersion peers.

Above is the overall trend. Of course each kid is different and some may not fall in that majority group.

Yes, this. The concern about children falling behind in English (long term) if they devote too much time to a second language in the early years is very …. 1970s. And debunked.

Then share the data that proves this point. MCPS students have been falling further and further behind in math and reading (started before the pandemic). Show any research that proves immersion programs will increase these test scores. MCPS wants to be all about the data except when it suits them to do something else.

What MCPS needs to improve reading scores is an actual proven curriculum aligned with the science of reading. As long as they keep choosing crappy curriculums, doesn’t matter what language it’s in, reading scores will never improve.

I guess you missed where MCPS has done just this for K-2 and is investing in LETRS training. Not to mention expanding SLC to schools that are not CES.

I think RGR is great but my understanding is that it is a patchwork to make up for benchmark’s poor phonics component while they put about an RFP for yet another curriculum. They are still using benchmark elsewhere, and grades 3-5 get no benefits. We don’t really know what we will have next year.

I will say I have more confidence in the current ELA director (or whatever their title is). But nothing is really “done” as you imply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Call it what it actually is: a gimmick.

IDK. Our third-grader is fluent in a language no one else in our family has spoken for generations. Doesn’t seem like a gimmick to me!

And what did they miss learning in English? It catches up with them in middle school.

IDK, but I doubt it's going to pose a problem we can't handle.

Appreciate the concern, ofc.

We already can’t handle the number of English speaking kids failing standardized tests in middle school. A second language won’t make it any better. Show any data that shows language immersion at the elementary level helping native English speakers do better on all of the required standardized tests. You won’t find any.

THIS

We have data that shows how poorly our students are currently doing. Instead of trying to improve that, MCPS is throwing out poorly-thought out gimmicks.

Did you miss the study posted above where both native English speaking kids and English Language Learners showed greater gains after bilingual education than kids in English-only classrooms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fear mongering in this thread is incredible.

My kid is at OTES and we are thrilled with the two-way immersion. We need a bigger house but we're staying for the school.

If it wasn't going well (and this happens for very, very few kids, it is by no means hit or miss) there's an alternative English-only school we could go to.

It's great that they're expanding this, actually.

MCPS has been teaching reading wrong for at least 15 years according to the current Elem ELA director. I guarantee doing in 2 languages just makes it worse for kids who only speak English. My kid has dyslexia and dysgraphia. Our Title 1 school can’t follow her IEP as it is. Making the school an immersion school just complicates the issue.

It is not only MCPS that has been teaching reading wrong: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fopen.spotify.com%2Fshow%2F0tcUMXBFMGMe8w79MM5QCI%3Fsi%3DT8EpfD7zT3OS9ynw210NNQ%26fbclid%3DIwAR0rtVl91orTSiRW7DKEIIrL1a_HWdxlZbKEGQQ5_-PjYB3UDEwiYVA8iFE&h=AT2RtJcw0UQ1kP-9A1UBGY5AdbKmXPLivij-pRyK-gi-rPLge0vc5OxFUsGMpbvtOKwvW-9FJAIOzHZlOiO0dTEKXKCvRElGO8nsxX3ymM8jxech7zOUJ_byTTgN8Wsvmw&__tn__=%2CmH-R&c[0]=AT3SxSAb8SHLhw77FsjwfOAPpDWl2YzV7vYP0Yvqwu5UrLzydJ7l3ADSMEkSBf1VX5z9qKNkY9W-FqVEYujAvOZZnxdbDJTdTTaddWuqtctmOFFXfpADQDbA6VD6acA6PnOiQkSIbcVLpUKgxLHU7lIYUwUPsPH3fa0V2idTsycacvPSvEeFGA

Sorry, link went wrong: https://open.spotify.com/show/0tcUMXBFMGMe8w79MM5QCI?si=T8EpfD7zT3OS9ynw210NNQ&fbclid=IwAR10FbH7xY_gYxb7we8_L6bgPjpf0ghNZF1VdB92Xe0WLVt02Cg8ZkIlQKw&nd=1

Montgomery County has since switched to teaching phonics

They have not! They continue to have a huge contract with Benchmark. Phonics is only one piece of the science of reading.

Untrue. This year schools are either doing really great reading phonics as a supplement to benchmark or doing an updated version of benchmark which has a phonics program

[Anonymous]

Not a positive for dyslexic students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a positive for dyslexic students.

All of the bilingual programs have a monolingual partner school that kids can attend if they have learning differences that would render bilingual education more challenging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fear mongering in this thread is incredible.

My kid is at OTES and we are thrilled with the two-way immersion. We need a bigger house but we're staying for the school.

If it wasn't going well (and this happens for very, very few kids, it is by no means hit or miss) there's an alternative English-only school we could go to.

It's great that they're expanding this, actually.

MCPS has been teaching reading wrong for at least 15 years according to the current Elem ELA director. I guarantee doing in 2 languages just makes it worse for kids who only speak English. My kid has dyslexia and dysgraphia. Our Title 1 school can’t follow her IEP as it is. Making the school an immersion school just complicates the issue.

It is not only MCPS that has been teaching reading wrong: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fopen.spotify.com%2Fshow%2F0tcUMXBFMGMe8w79MM5QCI%3Fsi%3DT8EpfD7zT3OS9ynw210NNQ%26fbclid%3DIwAR0rtVl91orTSiRW7DKEIIrL1a_HWdxlZbKEGQQ5_-PjYB3UDEwiYVA8iFE&h=AT2RtJcw0UQ1kP-9A1UBGY5AdbKmXPLivij-pRyK-gi-rPLge0vc5OxFUsGMpbvtOKwvW-9FJAIOzHZlOiO0dTEKXKCvRElGO8nsxX3ymM8jxech7zOUJ_byTTgN8Wsvmw&__tn__=%2CmH-R&c[0]=AT3SxSAb8SHLhw77FsjwfOAPpDWl2YzV7vYP0Yvqwu5UrLzydJ7l3ADSMEkSBf1VX5z9qKNkY9W-FqVEYujAvOZZnxdbDJTdTTaddWuqtctmOFFXfpADQDbA6VD6acA6PnOiQkSIbcVLpUKgxLHU7lIYUwUPsPH3fa0V2idTsycacvPSvEeFGA

Sorry, link went wrong: https://open.spotify.com/show/0tcUMXBFMGMe8w79MM5QCI?si=T8EpfD7zT3OS9ynw210NNQ&fbclid=IwAR10FbH7xY_gYxb7we8_L6bgPjpf0ghNZF1VdB92Xe0WLVt02Cg8ZkIlQKw&nd=1

Montgomery County has since switched to teaching phonics

They have not! They continue to have a huge contract with Benchmark. Phonics is only one piece of the science of reading.

Untrue. This year schools are either doing really great reading phonics as a supplement to benchmark or doing an updated version of benchmark which has a phonics program

I’ll say it louder for the people in the Back. phonics is only one piece of the science of reading. Adding on a weekly worksheet where students trace “high frequency words” is not based in the science of reading. We have had access to brain research in how people learn to read since soldieries started coming back from Vietnam. Why is MCPS still teaching WRONG In 2023?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a positive for dyslexic students.

Learning disabilities exist in any language.