Picking up the pieces - how do we address problems were are facing in education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we please float ideas for improving education other than increasing teachers' salaries?

What can be done in the near term to make public education better?

Get rid of all of the teacher busywork so teachers can plan and grade.

As a parent, what can I do about this? Would contacting/emailing the principal help? Or contacting my school board members? Or the new superintendent?

All of the above. Principals have some discretion, but a lot of the busy work comes from the top. Tell your friends to write letters. When I first started teaching, my planning was my time. When I left about a decade later, I had two compulsory meetings a week, but no less work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone be specific about what the "trauma" is kids are experiencing right now? I have a 12th grader and a college sophomore (and I teach elementary school) so I may not be aware of what issues other kids are having. My personal children are all very active in sports and activities in high school and college now, despite being in virtual schooling for over a year. I'm not aware of a large amount of trauma and stress in their peer group, except for the stress of college applications of course.

Our ES school seems pretty much normal emotionally. Academically there are still some gaps. We spent much of last year bringing students who were behind up to where they should be, academically but it is true that for some students, there are still gaps especially in math. What these students need IMO is individual or very small group tutoring, summer school, after school extra help. We can't provide it during the day because we have to (our school district insists that we) stick to the curriculum unfortunately. I believe this policy is misguided. They tell us we can "weave in" remediation in "mini-lessons" but what these students need are actual lessons, not ad hoc mini lessons.

But emotional trauma at the elementary school level? What are people seeing that needs to be dealt with?

I was wondering the same thing. I have a 9th grader and 11th grader so my days of being in tune with an elementary school are long gone. The pendulum seems to be swinging back to being more strict with the kids and their behaviors after being extremely understanding last year. That is what I see at my kids' high schools at least.

Shouldn't the same be happening in elementary school? A "carry on, then" attitude? It doesn't need to super strict, but these young kids need to learn they still need to carry-on and what the expectations really are. I find it hard to believe elementary kids are still too "traumatized" for that.

Have you ever had to deal with a child with depression? "Just move on" doesn't work for adults or children. "Have you tried not being depressed?"

Yikes.

+1

-1. If your kid has depression, regardless of the reason, the school cannot and will not fix it.

Did someone suggest that the school fix it? No. All someone suggested was that ignoring it wouldn't fix it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone be specific about what the "trauma" is kids are experiencing right now? I have a 12th grader and a college sophomore (and I teach elementary school) so I may not be aware of what issues other kids are having. My personal children are all very active in sports and activities in high school and college now, despite being in virtual schooling for over a year. I'm not aware of a large amount of trauma and stress in their peer group, except for the stress of college applications of course.

Our ES school seems pretty much normal emotionally. Academically there are still some gaps. We spent much of last year bringing students who were behind up to where they should be, academically but it is true that for some students, there are still gaps especially in math. What these students need IMO is individual or very small group tutoring, summer school, after school extra help. We can't provide it during the day because we have to (our school district insists that we) stick to the curriculum unfortunately. I believe this policy is misguided. They tell us we can "weave in" remediation in "mini-lessons" but what these students need are actual lessons, not ad hoc mini lessons.

But emotional trauma at the elementary school level? What are people seeing that needs to be dealt with?

I was wondering the same thing. I have a 9th grader and 11th grader so my days of being in tune with an elementary school are long gone. The pendulum seems to be swinging back to being more strict with the kids and their behaviors after being extremely understanding last year. That is what I see at my kids' high schools at least.

Shouldn't the same be happening in elementary school? A "carry on, then" attitude? It doesn't need to super strict, but these young kids need to learn they still need to carry-on and what the expectations really are. I find it hard to believe elementary kids are still too "traumatized" for that.

Have you ever had to deal with a child with depression? "Just move on" doesn't work for adults or children. "Have you tried not being depressed?"

Yikes.

NP. Out of the four of us, DH and DS and DD and me, three of us really struggled with an increase in depression and anxiety during the pandemic and virtual school and afterward. Now, while DH and I are doing so-so, DS is doing fine, as is DD. A return to school, return to expectations, return to/making new friendships is what he needed and what he got.

The academic learning loss is an issue - but schools are the solution to the emotional and psychological trauma for kids, imo. Although I like OP's suggestion for increased mentoring and buddying, which was something that our ES used to do but hasn't resumed yet.

It’s debatable that schools achieve their main goal, educating a population. Why would we add healing from trauma to their plate? People need to parent and get their kids the help they need.

ok, but many of them aren't. it's fun (and easy) to see the world in what people SHOULD do but the reality is that many parents, for various reasons, aren't being the parents that their kids need. and then that carries over to the schools. so...what now? saying "well, people should do this or that" is not a solution.

Saying “well, the schools should solve all my and my kids’ problems” is not a solution. Their job is education, not psychiatry or social work.

DP, but what is your solution then? This thread is about solutions, and all you are doing is saying "No." Is your solution just harping on anonymous message boards that parents are bad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smaller class sizes would go a long way to fixing many of the other issues.

Which requires more teachers who do not exist.

That’s the same reason charter schools aren’t a reasonable fix. There aren’t enough teachers to fill them.

But I do wonder if charters can do things differently that a huge district can't do. For example, they can have different administrative burdens on teachers, they can 'counsel out' behavior kids, etc. Those are things that teachers on this board have expressed that they want. So it seems that charters (and privates, for that matter) can solve some of the issues where districts can't.

[Anonymous]

So, the solution is more charters and private schools?

[Anonymous]

By the way, private schools absolutely have tracking and personalized instruction. Parents want that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1 - To rebuild trust, school boards and school districts need to acknowledge they were wrong and made poor decisions. This alone would go a long way to help alleviate problems.

2 - Students have to be taught to read and do basic math. School districts should mandate that the three months be dedicated in elementary and middle school school to nothing other than learning basic math facts and math facts review and learning how to read by using phonics based methods. Every single student. After 3 months of group instruction then switch over to one on one instruction for those still struggling. At the high school level, there has to be some tracking instituted and students lacking basic skills will spend the same 3 months doing this.

3- The majority of academic struggles are rooted in a student’s inability to read. Teaching a child to read takes one on one tutoring. It costs money. APS declined to do it bc it can cost “$100 per hour” and they said it was too expensive. They didn’t seem to care that some parents pay that out of pocket and the parents who can’t - their kids never learn to read.

4 - Remote teaching was such a problem bc teachers were so unequipped to deal with technology. Some had never, ever used any kind of web conferencing tool despite the software the schools had including those features. Some had no idea how to update and add upload documents. Teachers should be provided ongoing training, be required to participate in hands on learning and should be required to pass a basic technology skills test each year. There is no excuse for teachers to not understand technology and how to use it.

In addition school districts need to get serious about their own technology infrastructure and make sure they are using systems across the district that integrate seamlessly and efficiently share data across all systems. Teachers should be able to quickly and data to a single system and be able to generate reports and details.

Wait, so you suggest adding more requirements to teachers' workloads? My kids have had teachers who are great with technology, and teachers who don't use the Schoology or Google Classroom at all. Teachers' tech skills have no relationship whatsoever to their teaching skills. Actually, I think there might be a slight inverse relationship.

And since there is broad agreement that virtual learning was a failure for the vast majority of students, why insist that all teachers develop that skill set? For those for whom virtual learning works, great. They should match up with one of the many, many virtual school options. But for goodness' sake, don't add yet another requirement, especially for something of very limited value, to teachers' workloads!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, the solution is more charters and private schools?

In a way, yes. If public non-charters can't provide differentiation, and have to work with behavior-issue kids, then the solution might be public charters and privates. Pay the public non-charter teachers more money, and provide a bunch of resources to them for social workers and remediation. But let the teachers and families who don't want that to have a different option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pay teachers more. We’re going to need the best and brightest, or at least the better and brighter, to tackle this.

Pay more and give more respect and autonomy to the profession. The best and the brightest are not going into teaching anymore, they're doing other things where they can be paid more and do less work, while not having to deal with needy kids or entitled parents.

Stop the excessive mandates from Central office. Stop the paperwork, the meetings, etc. Get more substitutes and more paras. Get more special ed teachers. The only way this will happen, is paying more.

What will teachers do to earn more respect and autonomy, and to build support for more pay?

NP. I don't think you understand how this works. You need teachers more than they need the job. When it comes down to brass tacks, you have to court them, not the reverse.

You can't chain people to the job and force them to teach. You need teachers, but they need "a job" or "support," and there are a lot of other ways of getting a job or support. The more you drag this out and try to punish teachers, the harder it is going to be to sweeten it enough to get what you need. I mean, you can do that, but it's an exercise in counterproductivity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smaller class sizes would go a long way to fixing many of the other issues.

Which requires more teachers who do not exist.

Teachers are out there; they just don’t want to work under the current conditions, one of which (at least in this area) is large class sizes. If you build it, they will come.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1 - To rebuild trust, school boards and school districts need to acknowledge they were wrong and made poor decisions. This alone would go a long way to help alleviate problems.

2 - Students have to be taught to read and do basic math. School districts should mandate that the three months be dedicated in elementary and middle school school to nothing other than learning basic math facts and math facts review and learning how to read by using phonics based methods. Every single student. After 3 months of group instruction then switch over to one on one instruction for those still struggling. At the high school level, there has to be some tracking instituted and students lacking basic skills will spend the same 3 months doing this.

3- The majority of academic struggles are rooted in a student’s inability to read. Teaching a child to read takes one on one tutoring. It costs money. APS declined to do it bc it can cost “$100 per hour” and they said it was too expensive. They didn’t seem to care that some parents pay that out of pocket and the parents who can’t - their kids never learn to read.

4 - Remote teaching was such a problem bc teachers were so unequipped to deal with technology. Some had never, ever used any kind of web conferencing tool despite the software the schools had including those features. Some had no idea how to update and add upload documents. Teachers should be provided ongoing training, be required to participate in hands on learning and should be required to pass a basic technology skills test each year. There is no excuse for teachers to not understand technology and how to use it.

In addition school districts need to get serious about their own technology infrastructure and make sure they are using systems across the district that integrate seamlessly and efficiently share data across all systems. Teachers should be able to quickly and data to a single system and be able to generate reports and details.

For the thousandth time, this is not happening. Never. Ever. Let it go.

And that’s how you know schools aren’t interested in improving their relationship with parents.

How do you think that will work out for them long-term? Will ignoring, or at times even attacking, parents lead to more public school funding? Will it improve the public’s perception of public school teachers, making it a more respectable profession?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1 - To rebuild trust, school boards and school districts need to acknowledge they were wrong and made poor decisions. This alone would go a long way to help alleviate problems.

2 - Students have to be taught to read and do basic math. School districts should mandate that the three months be dedicated in elementary and middle school school to nothing other than learning basic math facts and math facts review and learning how to read by using phonics based methods. Every single student. After 3 months of group instruction then switch over to one on one instruction for those still struggling. At the high school level, there has to be some tracking instituted and students lacking basic skills will spend the same 3 months doing this.

3- The majority of academic struggles are rooted in a student’s inability to read. Teaching a child to read takes one on one tutoring. It costs money. APS declined to do it bc it can cost “$100 per hour” and they said it was too expensive. They didn’t seem to care that some parents pay that out of pocket and the parents who can’t - their kids never learn to read.

4 - Remote teaching was such a problem bc teachers were so unequipped to deal with technology. Some had never, ever used any kind of web conferencing tool despite the software the schools had including those features. Some had no idea how to update and add upload documents. Teachers should be provided ongoing training, be required to participate in hands on learning and should be required to pass a basic technology skills test each year. There is no excuse for teachers to not understand technology and how to use it.

In addition school districts need to get serious about their own technology infrastructure and make sure they are using systems across the district that integrate seamlessly and efficiently share data across all systems. Teachers should be able to quickly and data to a single system and be able to generate reports and details.

For the thousandth time, this is not happening. Never. Ever. Let it go.

And that’s how you know schools aren’t interested in improving their relationship with parents.

How do you think that will work out for them long-term? Will ignoring, or at times even attacking, parents lead to more public school funding? Will it improve the public’s perception of public school teachers, making it a more respectable profession?

This hurts parents and the children more than anyone else. In the end, that's where the price is paid. People can move on to other jobs, but parents will still be parents, and their children will still need schooling.

Private schools can mitigate this somewhat, but that's no final answer.

[Anonymous]

Most of the solutions here just expect schools to fix society’s problems. Solutions:
-Pay teachers more to stem the immediate threat of lack of staff.
-Hold kids and parents accountable. Seriously, kids and parents have become master manipulators to avoid consequences.
-Get rid of SEL, most non-data driven initiatives. Most teachers don’t believe in them and view them as a distraction. Longitudinal studies are finally coming out that schools can’t teach this stuff well enough to have any impact.
-Get rid of 50% rules. Parents wonder why their kid isn’t doing work yet still passes classes.
-Put pressure on corporations and govt to increase salaries. The major driver of the educational issues is poverty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most of the solutions here just expect schools to fix society’s problems. Solutions:
-Pay teachers more to stem the immediate threat of lack of staff.
-Hold kids and parents accountable. Seriously, kids and parents have become master manipulators to avoid consequences.
-Get rid of SEL, most non-data driven initiatives. Most teachers don’t believe in them and view them as a distraction. Longitudinal studies are finally coming out that schools can’t teach this stuff well enough to have any impact.
-Get rid of 50% rules. Parents wonder why their kid isn’t doing work yet still passes classes.
-Put pressure on corporations and govt to increase salaries. The major driver of the educational issues is poverty.

What do you mean by holding parents accountable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depressingly, I think the only thing that will work is to rebuild trust. And I don’t know how to do that. God knows I don’t trust educators any more, not after watching the gaslighting that went on (my kid has severe dyslexia, and will probably have lifelong impact from the closures). I don’t see how kids learn from educators they don’t trust. And many of them do not trust educators at all now.

What? How would the school closures affect kids' trust with their current teachers? Because their parents have been badmouthing teachers this entire time? Sounds like a home/parenting problem.

I’m talking about older kids. Sorry, but you can’t gaslight kids who were middle school and above the way you gaslit the little kids. They are old enough to form their own opinions. And for a lot of the high school and college students, they’ll never recover educationally, especially the most vulnerable of them.

Talk to college professors. Trust is completely broken. Current college kids are suspicious and angry. They don’t trust any of their professors. Many have dropped out permanently. It’s grim, and your minimization of the situation because you did preschool homeschool in your Potomac mansion during the pandemic doesn’t change reality.