Binance and FTX

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dem donors are the best.

Is it true that Ukraine is also involved?

No idea but I wouldn't be surprised if the FTX guy had bought millions of Biden Jr's "art."

You have to respect the chutzpah.

Seems like every single person involved was a person of chutzpah.

This scandal had better be thoroughly investigated.

Kevin O'Leary (Mr. Wonderful of Shark Tank fame) is a big investor in FTX international. His investment is now worth $0. His video message to whoever cares is "I lost money in this investment. I'm taking the next flight to Washington and demanding regulation in this domain".

Crypto (and associated crap like NFTs) are a major ponzi scheme meant to part a fool from his money. Needs to be regulated so the gullible aren't left holding the bag.

Crypto=Tulip bulbs.

It’s worse. With tulip bulbs, you could at least have some flowers in your yard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FTX's Chapter 11 First day affifavit was filed today. It is really bad. They didn't have any employee records nor any financial controls.

To quote the CEO brought in to deal with this,
"never in my career have I seen such a complete failure of corporate controls and such a complete absence of trustworthy financial information as occured here"

This is my favorite part:

Mr. Ray said FTX’s human resources department was so disorganized that his team had been unable to prepare a complete list of who worked at FTX. And he said corporate funds had been used to buy homes and other personal items for employees and advisers, without proper documentation. Employees would make payment requests through a chat portal, where supervisors approved disbursements using “personalized emojis,” the filing said.

According to the filing, FTX lacked lasting records of corporate decisions, partly because Mr. Bankman-Fried relied on communications platforms that were set to automatically delete messages after a short time and encouraged employees to use the same applications.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/17/business/ftx-bankruptcy.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are confusing the question of whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin are a worthwhile store of value or investment with what happened with FTX.

You can buy or sell crypto without an exchange as it was down in the earlier years of bitcoin and you can store it offline on a hard drive that you guard like a bar of gold.

An exchange, however, makes it much easier to buy and sell and, in principle, you don't have to worry about safeguarding the bitcoin you buy there because the exchange safeguards it for you. In highly regulated exchange arrangements, this safeguarding is generally done through an arrangement with a highly regulated bank or broker dealer.

This did not happen with FTX because, as an exchange, it was very lightly regulated and it, not a bank or broker dealer, was the custodian of customer assets. The owners of the exchange lent customer assets to a struggling trading affiliate, which immediately lost them on their bets and could not recover sufficiently to return the customer assets to the exchange.

The problem here is what the owners of the exchange did with customers' cryptoassets, not the cryptoassets themselves. It is a repeat of a crime we have seen over and over again over the decades in which a trustee pilfers the assets they are supposed to be protecting.

Whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin et al are worthwhile stores of value or investments is a completely separate question, the answers to which shed no light on what happened in the FTX blow up, which just as well could have involved stocks, or foreign currencies, or pork bellies.

If you believe it does, you will miss the real lessons of FTX.

But inherently how do you value a crypto asset? They were issuing FTT tokens, kept 98% on their books and sold 2% on “open market” (I’m guessing actually wash trade) and this set a “value” for the FTT tokens which they then used on their balance sheet. Any crypto has this artifact where they are thinly traded but claim to have certain values. I guess they could do similar thing with stock issuance?

FTT was not a decentralized cryptoasset. It was issued by FTX, an exchange, which, by definition is not decentralized.

There was some value to the FTT token as users could do transactions on FTX for smaller fees, and as I understand it, could get some returns. The latter feature made them something like stock.

FTX issuance of FTT, however, was profligate and much of it was bought by sister hedge fund Alameda. Alameda then used the FTT tokens as collateral for loans it entered into and FTT is what it used as collateral for the customer asset it borrowed from FTX.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are confusing the question of whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin are a worthwhile store of value or investment with what happened with FTX.

You can buy or sell crypto without an exchange as it was down in the earlier years of bitcoin and you can store it offline on a hard drive that you guard like a bar of gold.

An exchange, however, makes it much easier to buy and sell and, in principle, you don't have to worry about safeguarding the bitcoin you buy there because the exchange safeguards it for you. In highly regulated exchange arrangements, this safeguarding is generally done through an arrangement with a highly regulated bank or broker dealer.

This did not happen with FTX because, as an exchange, it was very lightly regulated and it, not a bank or broker dealer, was the custodian of customer assets. The owners of the exchange lent customer assets to a struggling trading affiliate, which immediately lost them on their bets and could not recover sufficiently to return the customer assets to the exchange.

The problem here is what the owners of the exchange did with customers' cryptoassets, not the cryptoassets themselves. It is a repeat of a crime we have seen over and over again over the decades in which a trustee pilfers the assets they are supposed to be protecting.

Whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin et al are worthwhile stores of value or investments is a completely separate question, the answers to which shed no light on what happened in the FTX blow up, which just as well could have involved stocks, or foreign currencies, or pork bellies.

If you believe it does, you will miss the real lessons of FTX.

How do you buy crypto without an exchange? The only way I know is to mine it or buy with fiat thru exchange? Someday if crypto stabilizes and you use it to purchase goods or get paid for work than that would be an option. But it’s hard to do without trust — like if I sell my car for crypto, I have to see it enter my wallet before handing over the keys. Of course the swings in value make that uncertain, I could end up with far less return if price of crypto plummets right after I sell it.

This, plus there is a long list of previously respectable crypto exchanges that have recently failed. There is no SPIC and there are no separate accounts in the case of bankruptcy- it's just one big pool and the account holders are unsecured creditors. If you want the non-fradulent version of FFX, look at the Celsius bankruptcy

It’s been mentioned above that people left their assets in FTX because the US exchange was supposedly unaffected & then their account balances disappeared last Friday. It sounds like they were seized by the bankruptcy management team. As you point out, those people are now screwed because those assets are now part of the pool and will be distributed to secured creditors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dem donors are the best.

Is it true that Ukraine is also involved?

No idea but I wouldn't be surprised if the FTX guy had bought millions of Biden Jr's "art."

You have to respect the chutzpah.

Seems like every single person involved was a person of chutzpah.

This scandal had better be thoroughly investigated.

Kevin O'Leary (Mr. Wonderful of Shark Tank fame) is a big investor in FTX international. His investment is now worth $0. His video message to whoever cares is "I lost money in this investment. I'm taking the next flight to Washington and demanding regulation in this domain".

Crypto (and associated crap like NFTs) are a major ponzi scheme meant to part a fool from his money. Needs to be regulated so the gullible aren't left holding the bag.

Kevin O'Leary is on film assuring others of the safety of doing business with FTX.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are confusing the question of whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin are a worthwhile store of value or investment with what happened with FTX.

You can buy or sell crypto without an exchange as it was down in the earlier years of bitcoin and you can store it offline on a hard drive that you guard like a bar of gold.

An exchange, however, makes it much easier to buy and sell and, in principle, you don't have to worry about safeguarding the bitcoin you buy there because the exchange safeguards it for you. In highly regulated exchange arrangements, this safeguarding is generally done through an arrangement with a highly regulated bank or broker dealer.

This did not happen with FTX because, as an exchange, it was very lightly regulated and it, not a bank or broker dealer, was the custodian of customer assets. The owners of the exchange lent customer assets to a struggling trading affiliate, which immediately lost them on their bets and could not recover sufficiently to return the customer assets to the exchange.

The problem here is what the owners of the exchange did with customers' cryptoassets, not the cryptoassets themselves. It is a repeat of a crime we have seen over and over again over the decades in which a trustee pilfers the assets they are supposed to be protecting.

Whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin et al are worthwhile stores of value or investments is a completely separate question, the answers to which shed no light on what happened in the FTX blow up, which just as well could have involved stocks, or foreign currencies, or pork bellies.

If you believe it does, you will miss the real lessons of FTX.

How do you buy crypto without an exchange? The only way I know is to mine it or buy with fiat thru exchange? Someday if crypto stabilizes and you use it to purchase goods or get paid for work than that would be an option. But it’s hard to do without trust — like if I sell my car for crypto, I have to see it enter my wallet before handing over the keys. Of course the swings in value make that uncertain, I could end up with far less return if price of crypto plummets right after I sell it.

You can buy crypto from kiosks at convenience markets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are confusing the question of whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin are a worthwhile store of value or investment with what happened with FTX.

You can buy or sell crypto without an exchange as it was down in the earlier years of bitcoin and you can store it offline on a hard drive that you guard like a bar of gold.

An exchange, however, makes it much easier to buy and sell and, in principle, you don't have to worry about safeguarding the bitcoin you buy there because the exchange safeguards it for you. In highly regulated exchange arrangements, this safeguarding is generally done through an arrangement with a highly regulated bank or broker dealer.

This did not happen with FTX because, as an exchange, it was very lightly regulated and it, not a bank or broker dealer, was the custodian of customer assets. The owners of the exchange lent customer assets to a struggling trading affiliate, which immediately lost them on their bets and could not recover sufficiently to return the customer assets to the exchange.

The problem here is what the owners of the exchange did with customers' cryptoassets, not the cryptoassets themselves. It is a repeat of a crime we have seen over and over again over the decades in which a trustee pilfers the assets they are supposed to be protecting.

Whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin et al are worthwhile stores of value or investments is a completely separate question, the answers to which shed no light on what happened in the FTX blow up, which just as well could have involved stocks, or foreign currencies, or pork bellies.

If you believe it does, you will miss the real lessons of FTX.

How do you buy crypto without an exchange? The only way I know is to mine it or buy with fiat thru exchange? Someday if crypto stabilizes and you use it to purchase goods or get paid for work than that would be an option. But it’s hard to do without trust — like if I sell my car for crypto, I have to see it enter my wallet before handing over the keys. Of course the swings in value make that uncertain, I could end up with far less return if price of crypto plummets right after I sell it.

This, plus there is a long list of previously respectable crypto exchanges that have recently failed. There is no SPIC and there are no separate accounts in the case of bankruptcy- it's just one big pool and the account holders are unsecured creditors. If you want the non-fradulent version of FFX, look at the Celsius bankruptcy

It’s been mentioned above that people left their assets in FTX because the US exchange was supposedly unaffected & then their account balances disappeared last Friday. It sounds like they were seized by the bankruptcy management team. As you point out, those people are now screwed because those assets are now part of the pool and will be distributed to secured creditors.

He was head quartered and operating out of the Bahamas. Originally he operated out of Honk Kong but oversight is looser in the Bahamas. I don't see how the US is even involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I told my friend who was keeping his crypto at FTX ("because the US FTX isn't affected by this") to get it out earlier this week. He didn't. He just messaged me that his account shows he has ZERO. It's all gone.

Help me out here - why do the same people who don't trust government think that giving your money to an unregulated bunch of kids is better?

Greed. FTX was paying 8% returns for cash (dollar) deposits.

Where else can you get those returns?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I totally don't understand any of this no matter how much I read about it, but what interests me is reading that celebrities like Tom Brady and wife, Steph Curry, Shohei Ohtanai, and even Mark Zuckerburg will or already have lost billions in this. Who else?

Sadly a lot of regular people, blue collar workers and middle Americans. Twenty percent of African Americans invest in crypto and twelve percent of Caucasian Americans invest in crypto.

Crypto kiosks are in all of the convenience markets (like lottery kiosks.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SBF parents are two Stanford economics professors. What what they think of all this?

Same for the parents of his girlfriend Caroline Ellison. Her father is dean of economics at MIT. Have also heard her mother apparently is also a professor there.

Crypto chatter is that SBF's mother has reached out to Gary Gensler, chair of the SEC, to negotiate a deal for her son. She is a law professor at Standford who set up a super PAC, Mind the Gap, which raises money for Deomocratic campaigns.

Gensler was an economics professor at MIT and, so, in a sense Ellison's father was his boss.

Must be nice to have mom and dad like that.

SBF should get life time imprisonment like Madoff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are confusing the question of whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin are a worthwhile store of value or investment with what happened with FTX.

You can buy or sell crypto without an exchange as it was down in the earlier years of bitcoin and you can store it offline on a hard drive that you guard like a bar of gold.

An exchange, however, makes it much easier to buy and sell and, in principle, you don't have to worry about safeguarding the bitcoin you buy there because the exchange safeguards it for you. In highly regulated exchange arrangements, this safeguarding is generally done through an arrangement with a highly regulated bank or broker dealer.

This did not happen with FTX because, as an exchange, it was very lightly regulated and it, not a bank or broker dealer, was the custodian of customer assets. The owners of the exchange lent customer assets to a struggling trading affiliate, which immediately lost them on their bets and could not recover sufficiently to return the customer assets to the exchange.

The problem here is what the owners of the exchange did with customers' cryptoassets, not the cryptoassets themselves. It is a repeat of a crime we have seen over and over again over the decades in which a trustee pilfers the assets they are supposed to be protecting.

Whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin et al are worthwhile stores of value or investments is a completely separate question, the answers to which shed no light on what happened in the FTX blow up, which just as well could have involved stocks, or foreign currencies, or pork bellies.

If you believe it does, you will miss the real lessons of FTX.

How do you buy crypto without an exchange? The only way I know is to mine it or buy with fiat thru exchange? Someday if crypto stabilizes and you use it to purchase goods or get paid for work than that would be an option. But it’s hard to do without trust — like if I sell my car for crypto, I have to see it enter my wallet before handing over the keys. Of course the swings in value make that uncertain, I could end up with far less return if price of crypto plummets right after I sell it.

You can buy crypto from kiosks at convenience markets.

So you put money in and then it shows up in your wallet. And what if it doesn’t show up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Will Dems have to return the $50+ million they got?

Was Sen. Warren among the beneficiaries?

Dems didn’t get the money. SBF put $50m into a PAC, which then spent the money on election efforts. Any assets remaining in the PAC would be seized by U.S. bankruptcy court, but I doubt there’s anything left

So Dems got the money

It went to his MOMs PAC. I’m sure she and her cahoots have “competitive” salaries. It was just another money laundering scheme; it wasn’t about politics other than Dems were better cover for his EA claims.

That said, being a fraud, bilking investors to give to charity could have been consistent with the philosophy. I mean Robin Hood WAS a criminal too.

I suspect that’s how they justified all the fraud: it was for the greater good. The private jets and Bahamas free lovin condo do weaken that theory!

Bahamas was to evade US corporate taxes and avoid regulation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally don't understand any of this no matter how much I read about it, but what interests me is reading that celebrities like Tom Brady and wife, Steph Curry, Shohei Ohtanai, and even Mark Zuckerburg will or already have lost billions in this. Who else?

Sadly a lot of regular people, blue collar workers and middle Americans. Twenty percent of African Americans invest in crypto and twelve percent of Caucasian Americans invest in crypto.

Crypto kiosks are in all of the convenience markets (like lottery kiosks.)

Should dig this up as NPR was hawking crypto as a way for Black and minorities to build wealth because they are shunned by existing financial system (I mean I have no idea how an online bank knows you are black and the rejects you but that’s another story)

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1079459.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People are confusing the question of whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin are a worthwhile store of value or investment with what happened with FTX.

You can buy or sell crypto without an exchange as it was down in the earlier years of bitcoin and you can store it offline on a hard drive that you guard like a bar of gold.

An exchange, however, makes it much easier to buy and sell and, in principle, you don't have to worry about safeguarding the bitcoin you buy there because the exchange safeguards it for you. In highly regulated exchange arrangements, this safeguarding is generally done through an arrangement with a highly regulated bank or broker dealer.

This did not happen with FTX because, as an exchange, it was very lightly regulated and it, not a bank or broker dealer, was the custodian of customer assets. The owners of the exchange lent customer assets to a struggling trading affiliate, which immediately lost them on their bets and could not recover sufficiently to return the customer assets to the exchange.

The problem here is what the owners of the exchange did with customers' cryptoassets, not the cryptoassets themselves. It is a repeat of a crime we have seen over and over again over the decades in which a trustee pilfers the assets they are supposed to be protecting.

Whether decentralized cryptoassets like bitcoin et al are worthwhile stores of value or investments is a completely separate question, the answers to which shed no light on what happened in the FTX blow up, which just as well could have involved stocks, or foreign currencies, or pork bellies.

If you believe it does, you will miss the real lessons of FTX.

When you opened an account with FTX part of the contract agreement is that your personal assets could be loaned out. I doubt many people read the opening contract documents. This part of the contract is available on line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally don't understand any of this no matter how much I read about it, but what interests me is reading that celebrities like Tom Brady and wife, Steph Curry, Shohei Ohtanai, and even Mark Zuckerburg will or already have lost billions in this. Who else?

Sadly a lot of regular people, blue collar workers and middle Americans. Twenty percent of African Americans invest in crypto and twelve percent of Caucasian Americans invest in crypto.

Crypto kiosks are in all of the convenience markets (like lottery kiosks.)

Should dig this up as NPR was hawking crypto as a way for Black and minorities to build wealth because they are shunned by existing financial system (I mean I have no idea how an online bank knows you are black and the rejects you but that’s another story)

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1079459.page

I overhead an interesting conversation between two Whole Food stock clerks one day. One was talking about his doge account and how much money he was making and he was going to put more money into doge.